Two Awesome Upsides to the Arenas Trade

[kerouac9]

I was thinking about this this morning. There are two great things about the Arenas trade that maybe deserve their own thread for discussion:

1) It firmly takes Patrick Peterson out of punt return responsibilities. Maybe Peterson takes a bit of a Tim Brown role where he'll come in in special situations, but Peterson did not do a very good job returning punts. I went back and forth with Aaron Schatz on e-mail about this in January, and he said that while it seemed like teams were punting away from Peterson in the first half of the year, in the second half teams were punting to him and he couldn't do anything with it. Honestly, I'd prefer that PP21 hone his craft as a quarterback and establish himself as the best cover corner in the NFL this year.

2) The trade provides really remarkable competition in the punt and kick returner position. The last few years, it's been between LSH/Peterson and some scrub undrafted free agent. This year, it's going to be between a second-round pick in Arenas and a third-round pick in Mathieu, and if you're someone who believes that competition in a unit makes everyone better, you have to like that.

 

[crisper57]

#3: I don't see how Josh Cribbs ever signs with us after the draft and this trade.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I was thinking about this this morning. There are two great things about the Arenas trade that maybe deserve their own thread for discussion:

1) It firmly takes Patrick Peterson out of punt return responsibilities. Maybe Peterson takes a bit of a Tim Brown role where he'll come in in special situations, but Peterson did not do a very good job returning punts. I went back and forth with Aaron Schatz on e-mail about this in January, and he said that while it seemed like teams were punting away from Peterson in the first half of the year, in the second half teams were punting to him and he couldn't do anything with it. Honestly, I'd prefer that PP21 hone his craft as a quarterback and establish himself as the best cover corner in the NFL this year.

I think you have a typo here. Unless you are talking Wildcat which I doubt.

 

[BigRedRage]

I read something from Arians saying they could have PP and badger back for punts to be able to run trick plays and such - I like the idea a lot.

 

[Mulli]

Championship

 

[kerouac9]

I read something from Arians saying they could have PP and badger back for punts to be able to run trick plays and such - I like the idea a lot.

That's all well and good, but it's utter nonsense. Maybe twice in a season, but you have a limited number of reps to work with after training camp, and are you really going to practice 2-returner formations and plays once the regular season gets rolling?

The other reason it doesn't make a ton of sense is from a numbers standpoint. The opposing offense has 10 players going down the field (punters are hopefully not getting in on the play); the defense has 10 players on the line to try and block them. If you take one guy away to put him back for a return, you're giving a pretty big advantage to the coverage team.

I also don't want or need Patrick Peterson blocking anyone on punt returns, thank you very much.

 

[roland77]

I was thinking about this this morning. There are two great things about the Arenas trade that maybe deserve their own thread for discussion:

1) It firmly takes Patrick Peterson out of punt return responsibilities. Maybe Peterson takes a bit of a Tim Brown role where he'll come in in special situations, but Peterson did not do a very good job returning punts. I went back and forth with Aaron Schatz on e-mail about this in January, and he said that while it seemed like teams were punting away from Peterson in the first half of the year, in the second half teams were punting to him and he couldn't do anything with it. Honestly, I'd prefer that PP21 hone his craft as a quarterback and establish himself as the best cover corner in the NFL this year.

2) The trade provides really remarkable competition in the punt and kick returner position. The last few years, it's been between LSH/Peterson and some scrub undrafted free agent. This year, it's going to be between a second-round pick in Arenas and a third-round pick in Mathieu, and if you're someone who believes that competition in a unit makes everyone better, you have to like that.

Exactly, this is what the Skins did for years with Darrell Green.

 

[Totally_Red]

I was thinking about this this morning. There are two great things about the Arenas trade that maybe deserve their own thread for discussion:

1) It firmly takes Patrick Peterson out of punt return responsibilities. Maybe Peterson takes a bit of a Tim Brown role where he'll come in in special situations, but Peterson did not do a very good job returning punts. I went back and forth with Aaron Schatz on e-mail about this in January, and he said that while it seemed like teams were punting away from Peterson in the first half of the year, in the second half teams were punting to him and he couldn't do anything with it. Honestly, I'd prefer that PP21 hone his craft as a quarterback and establish himself as the best cover corner in the NFL this year.

2) The trade provides really remarkable competition in the punt and kick returner position. The last few years, it's been between LSH/Peterson and some scrub undrafted free agent. This year, it's going to be between a second-round pick in Arenas and a third-round pick in Mathieu, and if you're someone who believes that competition in a unit makes everyone better, you have to like that.

I would really like PP21 to concentrate on his cornerback role. Yes, he's an incredibly dangerous punt returner, but with all the possible punt returners on the roster he's no longer the only possibility there.

I think his career longevity will be enchanced if BA removes him from the punt return responsibility with occasional exceptions in special circumstances.

 

[dylanbw]

That's all well and good, but it's utter nonsense. Maybe twice in a season, but you have a limited number of reps to work with after training camp, and are you really going to practice 2-returner formations and plays once the regular season gets rolling?

The other reason it doesn't make a ton of sense is from a numbers standpoint. The opposing offense has 10 players going down the field (punters are hopefully not getting in on the play); the defense has 10 players on the line to try and block them. If you take one guy away to put him back for a return, you're giving a pretty big advantage to the coverage team.

I also don't want or need Patrick Peterson blocking anyone on punt returns, thank you very much.

Agreed 100%. That quote about 2 punt returners was this first time I questioned what BA had to say.That's just crazy talk. Opens us up to fake punts, PP21 getting hurt trying to block some UDFA LB trying to make a name for himself, etc.....NOOO THANKS!

 

[Totally_Red]

Agreed 100%. That quote about 2 punt returners was this first time I questioned what BA had to say.That's just crazy talk. Opens us up to fake punts, PP21 getting hurt trying to block some UDFA LB trying to make a name for himself, etc.....NOOO THANKS!

In certain games last season I thought the added burden of punt returner was wearing on PP21. [See the blowout in Seattle for the most salient example. That was the game where I believe he fumbled or muffed two punts.] At the very least, he should be relieved of the job whenever possible, e.g. in a blowout loss or win.

 

[kerouac9]

I would really like PP21 to concentrate on his cornerback role. Yes, he's an incredibly dangerous punt returner, but with all the possible punt returners on the roster he's no longer the only possibility there.

I think his career longevity will be enchanced if BA removes him from the punt return responsibility with occasional exceptions in special circumstances.

I don't know about "Career longevity." The fact of the matter is that he's going to be on the field for 60 or so defensive reps per game, and maybe another half-dozen special teams snaps. It's not that big a difference.

But just for focus, film study, training, etc., I'd prefer him focusing on his backpedal and Sydney Rice, not worrying about reading punt coverages.

 

[red desert]

If they do remove him from punt return duties I think it also points toward PP21 being used a bit more on offense. takes more of a role on offense. Not a ton, but a bit more.

 

[Totally_Red]

I don't know about "Career longevity." The fact of the matter is that he's going to be on the field for 60 or so defensive reps per game, and maybe another half-dozen special teams snaps. It's not that big a difference.

But just for focus, film study, training, etc., I'd prefer him focusing on his backpedal and Sydney Rice, not worrying about reading punt coverages.

Jason Sehorn was never quite the same after he got hurt returning a kickoff.

For an elite cornerback like Patrick, I'd just as soon reduce his exposure to injury risk even if the percentage of reps-reduction is minimal. On most of those punt returns, he isn't going to call for for a fair catch. He's going to try to make something happen and be more exposed and vulnerable to injury risk than the equivalent defensive snap.

 

[kerouac9]

Jason Sehorn was never quite the same after he got hurt returning a kickoff.

For an elite cornerback like Patrick, I'd just as soon reduce his exposure to injury risk even if the percentage of reps-reduction is minimal. On most of those punt returns, he isn't going to call for for a fair catch. He's going to try to make something happen and be more exposed and vulnerable to injury risk than the equivalent defensive snap.

Yeah, but that was a kickoff, and that's a totally different thing. Sehorn also wasn't a great player even before the injury.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't know about "Career longevity." The fact of the matter is that he's going to be on the field for 60 or so defensive reps per game, and maybe another half-dozen special teams snaps. It's not that big a difference.

But just for focus, film study, training, etc., I'd prefer him focusing on his backpedal and Sydney Rice, not worrying about reading punt coverages.

I'd rather he just play defense now, I don't want someone going Patrick Beverly and injuring him on a punt return. As a rookie it was ok becuase he was just so good at it. Last year he really wasn't that good at it.

 

[TJ]

If they do remove him from punt return duties I think it also points toward PP21 being used a bit more on offense. takes more of a role on offense. Not a ton, but a bit more.

I'm not sure Arians is big on using defensive players on offense. Best to let the offensive players play offense and vice versa.

Whiz liked to do that because he believed in trickery, using players such as Randle El, Boldin, DRC, Antron, and PP21 at either QB, RB or receiver.

 

[GuernseyCard]

If the opposition is punting from inside their 5 - I know who I want returning the kick.

 

[HotSauce]

If Tyrann Mathieu is not back there returning punts, someone should be fired.