Thunder @ Suns 4-6-14

OP
OP
Mainstreet

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,439
Reaction score
53,118
The Thunder have plenty of firepower. They lost this game because they gave up 122 points. Harden wouldn't help them on the defensive end.

As Cotton used to say. One can never have enough shooters.

I do think Harden would make the Thunder scary good beyond what Ibaka brings them. Now if the Suns could trade for a player like Ibaka, I would be jumping up and down.
 
OP
OP
Mainstreet

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,439
Reaction score
53,118
They could have kept him. All they needed to do was amnesty Perkins.

I thought It came down to Ibaka but I'm no expert on the subject. Let me see... Harden or Perkins? Wow, if you are right, they blew a big one.
 

Catlover

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Posts
1,887
Reaction score
1
Location
California
As Cotton used to say. One can never have enough shooters.

I do think Harden would make the Thunder scary good beyond what Ibaka brings them. Now if the Suns could trade for a player like Ibaka, I would be jumping up and down.

I just don't know if you can get full value for three players that all need the ball in their hands. They needed to get someone that could run the court and defend the rim so their trade was pretty stupid but I can see why they moved him. They needed to trade him for someone like DeAndre Jordan.

As for Ibaka, I'm not sure he'd make us that much better unless we also traded Bledsoe. I know you've somewhat jumped off the Plumlee bandwagon but I still think he figures highly in our future. I was worried about him until the Phoenix studio crew started talking more about the injuries he was recovering from. We need to put a better stretch four next to him and Len needs to take another step forward but I like our roster and want to see what a few tweaks can do.
 
OP
OP
Mainstreet

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,439
Reaction score
53,118
I just don't know if you can get full value for three players that all need the ball in their hands. They needed to get someone that could run the court and defend the rim so their trade was pretty stupid but I can see why they moved him. They needed to trade him for someone like DeAndre Jordan.

As for Ibaka, I'm not sure he'd make us that much better unless we also traded Bledsoe. I know you've somewhat jumped off the Plumlee bandwagon but I still think he figures highly in our future. I was worried about him until the Phoenix studio crew started talking more about the injuries he was recovering from. We need to put a better stretch four next to him and Len needs to take another step forward but I like our roster and want to see what a few tweaks can do.

Quite the opposite, I just want the Suns to beef up the 4/5 positions. I don't see Len being a huge factor next season.... and you have seen Frye play PF. I just want the the Suns to add a couple of solid players at these positions. Maybe one can be a youngster in the draft and the other being a veteran. When I mentioned Spencer Hawes, it was because he is a FA and can stretch the floor like Frye used to do.
 
Last edited:

AfroSuns

ASFN Lifer
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2008
Posts
3,441
Reaction score
7
Location
Phoenix AZ
Agreed. I also love the fact that the two of them genuinely like each other and like to play together. Neither one of them seems interested in starting an "it's my team" war. For some reason, there are a few fans that seem determined to start that war for them though. All I know is we are a far better team because of them, both of them.


Not sure where you and Cheese are getting this perceived Bledsoe hatred from. How the hell would a fan hate the second or third best player on the team...or maybe that is the problem, because we dared to criticize his game and did not proclaim him the best player on the team....truth is, he is not. He is growing and every fan hopes he will get there.

No one ever said they dont work well together, neither have i read anyone proclaiming Dragic the Savior either. If you truly have been reading this forum before you started posting like you said you did, then surely you must have come across a ton of threads admonishing Dragic on his first run as a Suns on how he needs to grow. he is not perfect now but he is a lot matured.

Right now, he is a better player than Bledsoe, Eric may have a slight edge on the defensive end but Dragic is a more well rounded player with better on court decision making kills . Keeping both players would be awesome, but if the Suns have to give one up for a star right now...guess who that would be.
 

sunsfan88

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Posts
11,660
Reaction score
844
I do think Harden would make the Thunder scary good beyond what Ibaka brings them. Now if the Suns could trade for a player like Ibaka, I would be jumping up and down.
Without Ibaka, OKC would be awful defensively. God awful. Especially when adding a guy like Harden who is one of the worst defenders in the league. Sure they would score 120+ every game maybe but they will also allow as much or more.
I thought It came down to Ibaka but I'm no expert on the subject. Let me see... Harden or Perkins? Wow, if you are right, they blew a big one.
Even if OKC amnestied Perkins, they still wouldn't be under the salary cap enough to sign Harden to the max.
 

Catlover

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Posts
1,887
Reaction score
1
Location
California
Not sure where you and Cheese are getting this perceived Bledsoe hatred from. How the hell would a fan hate the second or third best player on the team...or maybe that is the problem, because we dared to criticize his game and did not proclaim him the best player on the team....truth is, he is not. He is growing and every fan hopes he will get there.

No one ever said they dont work well together, neither have i read anyone proclaiming Dragic the Savior either. If you truly have been reading this forum before you started posting like you said you did, then surely you must have come across a ton of threads admonishing Dragic on his first run as a Suns on how he needs to grow. he is not perfect now but he is a lot matured.

Right now, he is a better player than Bledsoe, Eric may have a slight edge on the defensive end but Dragic is a more well rounded player with better on court decision making kills . Keeping both players would be awesome, but if the Suns have to give one up for a star right now...guess who that would be.

I certainly wouldn't have put you in the anti-Bledsoe camp and I'm not at all sure what I said that has you responding defensively on this issue. I do think you're wrong on both of the bolded points though. Oh, no one actually used the word savior probably but yes, if you've been following the threads all season there definitely has been many comments stating they can't play together and there has been a solid "Dragic can do no wrong" vibe around here.

I love both players and I have no problem with anyone pointing out their flaws. They both have them and offensively, especially as a point guard, Bledsoe has several of them. If we give him up to get a true star, I'm fine with that but there have also been suggestions that we just need to let him walk or trade him for the sake of trading him and I'm not fine with that.

I think Goran is the clear winner on offense but I think Eric has an even larger edge on defense. To me, it's not even close on that end. Neither one is perfect at running the offense but Dragic is better at the pick and roll/pop and he's also more effective playing off the ball than Eric is. Seriously, I have no problem with someone having a favorite over the other , I just don't know how some people can ignore the results. We are a better team with both of them, the numbers show that consistently. Take either of them off the roster and we became a much different team.
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
26,831
Reaction score
8,078
Location
L.A. area
Take either of them off the roster and we became a much different team.

While that's true, my guess is that you'd find the same effect with either Green or Markieff Morris, who are probably the third- and fourth-best players on the team (in one order or the other). We just haven't had a chance to see that, since both of those players have been healthy this year.

It doesn't look to me that Dragic and Bledsoe have any magical chemistry. In fact it's very rare that any given offensive play ends up involving both of them; what is much more frequent is that one of them initiates the offense while the other one takes that possession off. But Bledsoe is, indeed, one of the top talents on a relatively untalented team, so it's only natural that having him available makes a big difference.
 

Catlover

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Posts
1,887
Reaction score
1
Location
California
While that's true, my guess is that you'd find the same effect with either Green or Markieff Morris, who are probably the third- and fourth-best players on the team (in one order or the other). We just haven't had a chance to see that, since both of those players have been healthy this year.

It doesn't look to me that Dragic and Bledsoe have any magical chemistry. In fact it's very rare that any given offensive play ends up involving both of them; what is much more frequent is that one of them initiates the offense while the other one takes that possession off. But Bledsoe is, indeed, one of the top talents on a relatively untalented team, so it's only natural that having him available makes a big difference.

I think they have magical chemistry but you're right, they don't really have it on the court. It's just the presence of one that opens up so much for the other that makes them so difficult to deal with. Goran has talked several times about how much harder it was for him to get to the hoop with Bledsoe missing. When you put each of them out there on opposite sides of the court it puts incredible pressure on the defense.

The Lakers are the only team that's figured out how to stop them. Don't defend Frye, at all, just use the extra big to float to the ball side. For some incredibly unbelievable reason tonight, the Thunder not only sent Ibaka out on Channing they even doubled a few times. I guess no one is scouting Lakers games.
 

Catlover

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Posts
1,887
Reaction score
1
Location
California
I think we may wake up one morning and discover that Gerald Green is our best player. I really believe he could average 30 points a game if you could get the ref to make a horrible call on him when he firsts steps on the court each half. Has anyone else noticed how much more focused he gets when someone pisses him off? I had to laugh against Portland when he got mad and Eddie Johnson started criticizing him for getting mad and the next thing you know Green was ripping the heart out of the Blazers. He's the John McEnroe of basketball, anger fuels him.
 

AfroSuns

ASFN Lifer
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2008
Posts
3,441
Reaction score
7
Location
Phoenix AZ
I certainly wouldn't have put you in the anti-Bledsoe camp and I'm not at all sure what I said that has you responding defensively on this issue.

Defensive?? i like both players and appreciate what they bring to the table, but it is the word that comes to mind whenever i see your "rebuttal" to any post that criticizes Bledsoe's play.
Your location does show CA, so you obviously seen more Bledsoe playing with the Clippers than most of us...now i cant help but wonder if your joining the board the season Bledsoe lace 'em up for the Suns is no coincidence....
 
Last edited:

slinslin

Welcome to Amareca
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Posts
16,855
Reaction score
562
Location
Hannover - Germany
The constant belittling of everything that Bledsoe does and talking about his contract is just annoying.

We will re-sign him, thank god. He is a very good young player and actually cares and we are a much better team with him while we were barely .500 without him.
 

SirStefan32

Krycek, Alex Krycek
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
18,448
Reaction score
4,756
Location
Harrisburg, PA
Defensive?? i like both players and appreciate what they bring to the table, but it is the word that comes to mind whenever i see your "rebuttal" to any post that criticizes Bledsoe's play.
Your location does show CA, so you obviously seen more Bledsoe playing with the Clippers than most of us...now i cant help but wonder if your joining the board the season Bledsoe lace 'em up for the Suns is no coincidence....

Plus there is no "anti-Bledsoe" camp. There is a group of people who are honest about his strengths and weaknesses. Pointing out that he lacks PG skills (ball handling, basketball IQ, decision making, etc) and his lack of SG skills (height, shooting ability) is not being "anti-Bledsoe", it is not "hatered", or "hostility"- it is being objective, honest and realistic.

This crap is no different than someone calling me "anti-Dragic" because I point out that his ball handling and defense are average at best for a starting PG. I am a huge fan- he's probably my favorite Suns player and one of my ten favorite players in the entire NBA, but that doesn't mean I can't point out some weaknesses in his game.

Sometimes I feel like there is a bunch of Tommy Heinsohns on this board when it comes to some players.
 

Catlover

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Posts
1,887
Reaction score
1
Location
California
Defensive?? i like both players and appreciate what they bring to the table, but it is the word that comes to mind whenever i see your "rebuttal" to any post that criticizes Bledsoe's play.
Your location does show CA, so you obviously seen more Bledsoe playing with the Clippers than most of us...now i cant help but wonder if your joining the board the season Bledsoe lace 'em up for the Suns is no coincidence....

I've defended Green, Frye, Tucker and the Morris twins often too. I must have moved around a lot. I have no problem with you even if you think I'm the second coming of Andrew. I suggest you read some of the threads you've clearly skipped because I think we're much closer to being on the same side on this subject than you realize. We're really not manufacturing this idea about Bledsoe bashing.

I didn't start out this season as a Bledsoe fan. I didn't completely jump on to his bandwagon until his injury and I started realizing how important he'd been to our defense. I see him play defense and at times it's impressive but it doesn't look to be important enough to make the kind of difference it makes. Not like when you watch Tucker for example. When he locks down Harden or someone like that you can see his impact as he's doing it. But Bledsoe's impact is less obvious, he somehow just makes everybody else on the team appear to be less of a liability defensively.
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
26,831
Reaction score
8,078
Location
L.A. area
We're really not manufacturing this idea about Bledsoe bashing.

Yes you are. The only "bashing" that takes place is saying things like Bledsoe doesn't have a position, is a below-average shooter, is extremely turnover-prone, and isn't already a top-ten guard in the league. Those claims are all either supported by factual evidence or would be broadly shared by any cross-section of people knowledgeable about the NBA. Yet for stating them, we get labeled as "haters." It's myopic, juvenile, and creates a strong deterrent to any further discussion.

But Bledsoe's impact is less obvious, he somehow just makes everybody else on the team appear to be less of a liability defensively.

In their last four games, the Suns have given up 115, 112, 93, and 115 points, for an average of 109. The Suns got a short-lived defensive charge when Bledsoe returned, but that charge has worn off, and they're back to trying to outscore everyone most of the time. Your claim that Bledsoe makes the entire team dramatically better on the defensive end isn't supported by the numbers. (Technically, you claim only that they "appear" to be better defensively, which I guess is unchallengeable.)
 

Catlover

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Posts
1,887
Reaction score
1
Location
California
Yes you are. The only "bashing" that takes place is saying things like Bledsoe doesn't have a position, is a below-average shooter, is extremely turnover-prone, and isn't already a top-ten guard in the league. Those claims are all either supported by factual evidence or would be broadly shared by any cross-section of people knowledgeable about the NBA. Yet for stating them, we get labeled as "haters." It's myopic, juvenile, and creates a strong deterrent to any further discussion.

Your reality doesn't match mine. Keep yours, I'll keep mine. I'm not tired of the discussion, there just seems to be no point in it. From my perspective, every time there is the slightest opening you and some others rush to the board to post a negative generalization fueled by a single moment. Obviously, from your perspective all you are doing is enlightening us poor fools.
 

SirStefan32

Krycek, Alex Krycek
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
18,448
Reaction score
4,756
Location
Harrisburg, PA
Your reality doesn't match mine. Keep yours, I'll keep mine. I'm not tired of the discussion, there just seems to be no point in it. From my perspective, every time there is the slightest opening you and some others rush to the board to post a negative generalization fueled by a single moment. Obviously, from your perspective all you are doing is enlightening us poor fools.

You can't have two "realities". Eric stated FACTS. Show us how he is not a bellow average shooter, show us how he is not turnover prone, and show us how he is a PG or a SG instead of manufacturing this idea of two realities.

Every player has strengths and weaknesses (obviously, some have more strengths than weaknesses, and some strengths and weaknesses are bigger than others) and stating someone has weaknesses is not an attack, hatred, or anything of the sort.
 

Catlover

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Posts
1,887
Reaction score
1
Location
California
You can't have two "realities". Eric stated FACTS. Show us how he is not a bellow average shooter, show us how he is not turnover prone, and show us how he is a PG or a SG instead of manufacturing this idea of two realities.

Every player has strengths and weaknesses (obviously, some have more strengths than weaknesses, and some strengths and weaknesses are bigger than others) and stating someone has weaknesses is not an attack, hatred, or anything of the sort.

But I don't have a problem with any of those points. I might shade them a bit differently but they're all valid points and they have nothing to do with what I've taken issue with.

Bledsoe is turnover prone right now. I'm hoping that it's mostly the wrist and hand injury he's been dealing with for several games now (and yes, he added to it himself when he lost his temper and banged his bad hand into the table). His shooting was never his strong suit and since his return it's been even more of a problem. And he doesn't fit the mold of a true point guard or a true shooting guard. He's still one heck of a basketball player IMO and I think that's a lot more relevant than whether or not he fits a specific label.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
540,760
Posts
5,295,367
Members
6,288
Latest member
Crazy_Player
Top