The rebuilding thread.

[Darth Llama]

Darth, you mentioned 3rd and 4th round draft picks in your long post... have you forgotten there have been only two rounds in the NBA draft? Good exploration of the possibilities though.

Apparently I did, because I thought it was 4 rounds. Thanks for the heads up, as you can probably tell, I usually don't watch the draft.

Buying O'Neal out is crazy, might as well pay him that much and "contend" for the 8th spot next season rather than pay him 20 Million and not play, Suns do not have anything to fall back on sadly.

Yes, you're right it would be crazy to buy him out for $20 mil, but that's not usually how it works. The Suns offer him a lower number, something like say $10 million to absolve their deal. Shaq gets the cash for doing basically nothing and then becomes an unrestricted free agent. This usually only works when a player is unhappy and wants to move on (like Marbury for example.) There is no point in paying him $20 million to just leave, that saves nothing. The idea is that the Suns benefit by paying half the amount and get his deal off the books while Shaq is free to take his money and go play for one last title.

 

[Ollie]

Blazers trade is dream for Suns and the fans.... Fernandez, Batum and Blake are all decent to turn very good type of players in the next 2 years.

Blazer GM must be crazy to do that....

Definitively agree. Blake won't progress much but he's a decent starting PG 'til Bayless is ready to take the reins and both Fernandez and Batum have a lot of upside. Pritchard will never offer the Suns this kind of package to have the privilege to rent Nash for a year.

As for the rebuilding plans, we're stuck with Shaq for next year, unless Sarver is ready to take some longer contracts (which I doubt). A Chandler + crappy contract (let's say Stojakovic, or Mo Pete+Posey) deal would make sense for both teams, though.

But I think Nash trade value is pretty low since there's no real market for a declining 35 years old PG who can't play a lick of defense. No contender/playoff team would trade for him, imo : Lakers don't need a traditional PG, Celtics have Rondo and Marbury, Cavs have Mo Williams, Hornets have Paul, Spurs have Parker and so on... Since you can't rebuild with Nash either, you'll have to find a team willing to dump salary like the Kings (Udrih + Thomas + their 2010 1st rounder) or the Warriors (Belinelli + Maggette or Jackson). Pretty bleak.

 

[slinslin]

Brand's 20 point 10 rebounds 2 blocks per game is a bargain at $15 Million a year.
Injury wise, the guy was put on shelf as they didnt need him this season... the key words there are "didnt need him".... 76ers better without a low post pivot back to the basket big man... they are better suited with Stoudemire-type.

The injury also are not determining factors for his contribution, he will recover...

OH PLEASE!!!

Don't make me laugh, Brand even not injured only averaged 15/8 over his last 40 games.

He is 30 years old, he has the worst trade value of any player in the league right now save maybe Baron Davis.

And he certainly isn't a bargain at 15M$ and 18M$+ in 2013!!!

Nobody will take Brand (who has been to the playoffs just one time) for anything remotely valueable let alone trading an allstar starter for him.

And don't kid yourself. He is sitting out because he is injured not because they don't need him, he has basically been out for the last 2 years straight with serious injuries, yet you claim it is not a problem especially since he is already 30?

Amare for Brand and Speights is by far the worst trade anyone has ever posted on this board.

The only hope for the Suns to rebuild is to:

-Try and trade Nash to New York for their pick
-Try to trade Shaq's expiring contract to a team desperate to dump bad contracts and getting some picks or talents in return (The Clips would be a decent bet maybe because they are horrible, have a high payroll, have a high pick and Davis has one of the worst contracts in the league)
-Or trade Shaq to a contender for a good young players and later pick and contracts
-Try to trade J-DUI for whoever takes him for perferably short contracts or a short contract and a bad contract and maybe a talent or pick
-Try to trade Amare for a very very high lottery pick or extend him, maybe if Oklahoma ends up at #5 or so we could convince them to give up #5 and our pick in 2010 for Amare. They would have Westbrook,Durant,Green and Amare. But we would have to convince them that our pick will only be a #14-17 pick because we will keep the team together for one more year if we don't get our pick back.

Maybe use Barbosa to get a better trade, or even check his market value also.

As for the rebuilding plans, we're stuck with Shaq for next year, unless Sarver is ready to take some longer contracts (which I doubt). A Chandler + crappy contract (let's say Stojakovic, or Mo Pete+Posey) deal would make sense for both teams, though.

Doesn't make sense. Shaq has great trade value.

1. He is the biggest expiring contract available.
2. He has shown that he can still be a factor and stay healthy.
3. He is still Shaq.

How would we help ourselves by trading him for a guy like Chandler and a crappy contract? Will it make us a contender? No. Will it help our future? No it hurts our future because Chandler and a bad contract doesn't help us rebuilding a young team and very little teams would give up anything for Chandler that would help us.
It would only make sense if the Suns thought that trade would make them contenders for next year.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Has it? I mean just look at the last 5 years how many times with a few breaks here or there how close we got to winning it all.

In 04-05 It was the JJ injury

In 05-06 without Amare we made it to the WCF.

In 06-07 we had the Amare/Diaw suspension, if we would have won that series we would have won a championship that year. There was no way Cleveland would have beat us with us having home court.

Last year we had the Duncan 3 in Game 1 that changed the series.

This year we've had everything that could go wrong, go wrong.

I'm with Andrew, I say get rid of Barnes and J-Rich, get Amare back, bring in a solid SG/3pt shooter(Curry) who can defend through the draft, sign another PF and another 3PT shooter and see what this team can do with a full year of Gentry coaching. I think we can be back in the top 4 in the West next year, easily.

Something like this

Nash, Dragic
Curry, Barbosa,
Hill, Dudley,Ariza
Amare,Amundson
Shaq, Lopez, Lafrentz, Okur, or Andersen(Bird Man)

lol. curry can't defend a paperbag much less the physical beating he'll take at the nba level. don't get me wrong, i like curry, but he's more ben gordon than anyone else in the league, only he's not as strong as ben gordon.

and why would ariza come to arizona?

some of you are just hanging onto something that's done.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Let's explore that a little..

First of all, Shaq costs $20 million a year, so any team that would take him would have to be able to absorb that contract. Now that would eliminate every team listed unless those teams are willing to go deep into luxury tax land. Let's assume for a moment they are.

The Cavs- Current Starter is Zydrunas Ilgauskas. The guy is 3 years younger then Shaq and is a competent starter on a team with the best defense in the league. He averages 13.1 points and 7.3 rebounds a game. Those numbers are a little lower then Shaq's but Shaq makes litterally twice as much (Z makes just over $10 mil.) Now, knowing you are already (arguably) the best team in the NBA, are you going to risk your chemestry to gamble on O'Neil as a starter for $20 million a year? Probably not. Are you going to pay $20 million for a reserve? Definitely not.

The Lakers- Despite the love fest at the All Star Game, Shaq and Kobe could not co-exist for an entire season. The Lakers still believe in Andrew Bynum despite his health problems, and when he plays he's more of a use to the Lakers then Shaq would be since he doesn't demand the ball and keeps enough touches for Kobe and Pau. The Lakers would be another place where he would likely be a backup behind a healthy Bynum and Shaq's ego won't permit that. The Lakers also can not take on a $20 mil contract, that would cost them any chance of keeping Lamar Odom.

Blazers- A team built around a young core. The Blazers spent that pick on Greg Oden, they're not going to bring Shaq in and pay him $20 million to keep their next "big thing" on the bench. The Blazers have been undergoing a strong youth movement over the last year and Shaq is a terrible fit here.

Hornets- This option is intriguing, Shaq would actually improve this team. Tyson Chandler is a solid defensive Center but can be a serious offensive liability at times. Shaq would fix that and allow Chandler to split time keeping both guys fresh. The problem here however, is do to financial reasons, the Hornets would almost certainly have to include Chandler in any trade to balance salary. They would still be about $9 million short and the Hornets would likely want the Suns to take Antonio Daniels bloated contract, which I doubt the Suns would want. I don't see any other player combination that both teams are likely to agree to. Still, this seems the best option.

San Antonio- Another intriguing option as this move would allow Tim Duncan to move back to his natural position of Power Forward. Again, money is an issue, as is the fact that the Spurs keep getting older and would be very hesitant to take a player Shaq's age. There is also the fact that San Antonio and Phoenix are bitter rivals. Would the Suns really want to help the Spurs? In the end they would obviously care more for helping themselves, but what would Phoenix get back? A couple more old and over paid guys and a very high 3rd or 4th round pick? Doesn't seem like a good deal for Phoenix.

Denver- Again another intriguing option, but another team that would require Phoenix to take on some bloated deals in order to balance out. The most likely player to go to Phoenix in this deal would be the often injured Kenyon Martin or the much hated Nene. Nene isn't very good, and Martin is always hurt, so I don't know how interested the Suns would be in either. As far as picks go, the Nuggets would probably not give up anything better then a 4th rounder and as the current #2 seed in the West, that's not very tempting.

Shaq's deal makes him very difficult to move. The best option for the Suns might be to try and buy out Shaq just to get out from under the contract. That means they walk away with nothing, but it would make them players in Free Agency and give them money to build. Shaq's age coupled with his price tag is going to make him very hard to move. The thought of becoming an unrestricted free agent might be enough to lure Shaq to take the deal though.

your post, and your very presence on an nba board, has lost any possible credibility with your speaking of 3rd and 4th round picks. the nba only has 2 rounds. and that's been the case for over a decade.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Apparently I did, because I thought it was 4 rounds. Thanks for the heads up, as you can probably tell, I usually don't watch the draft.



Yes, you're right it would be crazy to buy him out for $20 mil, but that's not usually how it works. The Suns offer him a lower number, something like say $10 million to absolve their deal. Shaq gets the cash for doing basically nothing and then becomes an unrestricted free agent. This usually only works when a player is unhappy and wants to move on (like Marbury for example.) There is no point in paying him $20 million to just leave, that saves nothing. The idea is that the Suns benefit by paying half the amount and get his deal off the books while Shaq is free to take his money and go play for one last title.

will never happen. sarver loves his money. he won't part with it when there's no upside for him. and a buyout is no upside.

shaq will be traded. he's proven to be one of the best remaining centers in a centerless league. he's an enormous expiring contract. some teams will take a shot at him just for his expiring . . . particularly in light of the supposed 2010 FA extravaganza.

and the chandler trade won't happen. has everyone already forgotten the chandler trade that was nixed due to a failed physical? the hornets want to pare down their payroll, not keep it consistent or make it higher. they were willing to hurt the team to shed payroll. if they move chandler it'll be a cost-saving move, not a move to improve their team.

 

[Darth Llama]

your post, and your very presence on an nba board, has lost any possible credibility with your speaking of 3rd and 4th round picks. the nba only has 2 rounds. and that's been the case for over a decade.

Yep, I mixed up the NBA draft with another sport, perfect reason to discount everything I say. Look, if you want to feel that way, then ok, but just keep in mind that I at least tried to contribute something beyond "you're stupid," or the other petty shots this board often falls prey to. If I failed to meet your expectation, then sorry. I'm not here to fight with anyone, just looking for a place to talk shop with people, nothing more. I made a mistake on the draft picks, but the other points are valid. Shaq will be very hard to move because of his $20 million dollar cap hit. Will he be impossible to move? Of course not, especially to a team that's willing to pay luxury tax for a shot at a title.

If my opinion isn't credible to you, then fair enough, but at least some people found it usefull.

 

[Bufalay]

Shaq will be very hard to move because of his $20 million dollar cap hit. Will he be impossible to move? Of course not, especially to a team that's willing to pay luxury tax for a shot at a title.

How would acquiring Shaq help a team win anything. He sucks. I know 17 and 8 are good numbers, but Zach Randolph averages 21 and 10 and he sucks.

 

[Darth Llama]

How would acquiring Shaq help a team win anything. He sucks. I know 17 and 8 are good numbers, but Zach Randolph averages 21 and 10 and he sucks.

Well, I guess I haven't really thought of that. I just assumed that most people here (and around the league) considered him a good center. His numbers aren't bad to just look at them without considering his pay. 17pts and 8 Rebounds a game however, is a terrible return on $20 million.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

How would acquiring Shaq help a team win anything. He sucks. I know 17 and 8 are good numbers, but Zach Randolph averages 21 and 10 and he sucks.

I'm not the biggest Shaq fan in the world. The arrogance and lack of commitment at some stages really gets on my nerves. But to even mention the diesel and Z-Bo in the same sentence is ridiculous. Shaq has rings on his fingers, Randolph is always on losing teams. And from a pure basketball standpoint, they are completely different players. The vast majority of Randolphs points come from mid range jumpers. Shaq is a guy who guarantees a double team down low, which really opens it up for the rest of the perimeter players. He's not a guy that you can judge on numbers alone. He would greatly improve playoff teams like Portland, Cleveland, Dallas, Boston, New Orleans, etc.

 

[binkar]

It has been proven time and time again that this style of basketball can not win a championship. I don't want them together next year, its time to start rebuilding.

I don't think the style is the problem, I think it's the players. But I do feel like the style of play should be adapted to the players who are playing in it to a certain degree. We need a new roster one way or another, so if this style happens to be what suits the new players best then keep it. If another style fits the new players better than change the style. Players win championships not styles IMO.

That's not to say coaching and style don't come into play because it obviously does.

 

[lou_skywalker]

Apparently Shaq wants to be in Big D, we could get Damp and some expiring contracts. That would be great, although I doubt of Mark Cuban is willing to take this risk.

 

[Bufalay]

I'm not the biggest Shaq fan in the world. The arrogance and lack of commitment at some stages really gets on my nerves. But to even mention the diesel and Z-Bo in the same sentence is ridiculous. Shaq has rings on his fingers, Randolph is always on losing teams. And from a pure basketball standpoint, they are completely different players. The vast majority of Randolphs points come from mid range jumpers. Shaq is a guy who guarantees a double team down low, which really opens it up for the rest of the perimeter players. He's not a guy that you can judge on numbers alone. He would greatly improve playoff teams like Portland, Cleveland, Dallas, Boston, New Orleans, etc.

I don't know why he would improve those teams. He didn't seem to improve the Suns. The Heat were pretty horrible too.

 

[slinslin]

Shaq will be very hard to move because of his $20 million dollar cap hit. Will he be impossible to move? Of course not, especially to a team that's willing to pay luxury tax for a shot at a title.

If my opinion isn't credible to you, then fair enough, but at least some people found it usefull.

That is absolutely untrue.

Shaq is an expiring contract. Teams will want to trade for him to SAVE money.

Bad teams with high payrolls like the Clippers with Baron Davis' horrible contract would be candidates.

There is no 20M$ cap hit as they have to give up matching salaries anyway.

 

[lou_skywalker]

That is absolutely untrue.

Shaq is an expiring contract. Teams will want to trade for him to SAVE money.

Bad teams with high payrolls like the Clippers with Baron Davis' horrible contract would be candidates.

There is no 20M$ cap hit as they have to give up matching salaries anyway.

So why should we trade Shaq. I thought our nice $arver is also high on saving money.....

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't know why he would improve those teams. He didn't seem to improve the Suns. The Heat were pretty horrible too.

I don't know about Boston or New Orleans but I think he improves Portland, Cleveland or Dallas. Those teams have pathetic interior play in the paint. Shaq foots that bill perfect for those 3 teams.

 

[jandaman]

OH PLEASE!!!

Don't make me laugh, Brand even not injured only averaged 15/8 over his last 40 games.

He is 30 years old, he has the worst trade value of any player in the league right now save maybe Baron Davis.

And he certainly isn't a bargain at 15M$ and 18M$+ in 2013!!!

Nobody will take Brand (who has been to the playoffs just one time) for anything remotely valueable let alone trading an allstar starter for him.

And don't kid yourself. He is sitting out because he is injured not because they don't need him, he has basically been out for the last 2 years straight with serious injuries, yet you claim it is not a problem especially since he is already 30?

Amare for Brand and Speights is by far the worst trade anyone has ever posted on this board.

The only hope for the Suns to rebuild is to:

-Try and trade Nash to New York for their pick
-Try to trade Shaq's expiring contract to a team desperate to dump bad contracts and getting some picks or talents in return (The Clips would be a decent bet maybe because they are horrible, have a high payroll, have a high pick and Davis has one of the worst contracts in the league)
-Or trade Shaq to a contender for a good young players and later pick and contracts
-Try to trade J-DUI for whoever takes him for perferably short contracts or a short contract and a bad contract and maybe a talent or pick
-Try to trade Amare for a very very high lottery pick or extend him, maybe if Oklahoma ends up at #5 or so we could convince them to give up #5 and our pick in 2010 for Amare. They would have Westbrook,Durant,Green and Amare. But we would have to convince them that our pick will only be a #14-17 pick because we will keep the team together for one more year if we don't get our pick back.

Maybe use Barbosa to get a better trade, or even check his market value also.



Doesn't make sense. Shaq has great trade value.

1. He is the biggest expiring contract available.
2. He has shown that he can still be a factor and stay healthy.
3. He is still Shaq.

How would we help ourselves by trading him for a guy like Chandler and a crappy contract? Will it make us a contender? No. Will it help our future? No it hurts our future because Chandler and a bad contract doesn't help us rebuilding a young team and very little teams would give up anything for Chandler that would help us.
It would only make sense if the Suns thought that trade would make them contenders for next year.

Regarding the Brand bit..

Everyone around the league and net said the same things when O'Neal and Hill came on board.... "injured oldies".

But the Suns healing staff got them back to playing great.
Brand at 30 is young for that team, Im confident they can get him playing his best games. Also Injury in 2007 was Achilles, the 2008 injury was shoulders.... unrelated.


Speights is a Haslem type player.

I would also try to get 76ers pick for 2009.




But in regards to Stoudemire to Thunder for draft picks... I agree with this even more, this was always been my wish. If I was Kerr trade for 2009 first pick (Thunder) and Suns own pick back in 2010.
However worth noting that Thunder will only do this if they do not get No.1, as anything after that pick is not going to get them Griffin. So Thunder to place a BIG next to Durant and Westbrook will lean towards Stoudemire.

I would also try to get Sefalosha... although i doubt they will let him go, but he has come around to be a very good defender who can contribute offensively.

 

[slinslin]

Regarding the Brand bit..

Everyone around the league and net said the same things when O'Neal and Hill came on board.... "injured oldies".

Don't even try to compare 6'8 Brand who has been out 2 years basically, 4years left on a max contract and significantly declined even before his latest injuries to a veteran minimum player in Grant Hill or a proven champion Shaquille O'Neal.

 

[cly2tw]

Definitively agree. Blake won't progress much but he's a decent starting PG 'til Bayless is ready to take the reins and both Fernandez and Batum have a lot of upside. Pritchard will never offer the Suns this kind of package to have the privilege to rent Nash for a year.

As for the rebuilding plans, we're stuck with Shaq for next year, unless Sarver is ready to take some longer contracts (which I doubt). A Chandler + crappy contract (let's say Stojakovic, or Mo Pete+Posey) deal would make sense for both teams, though.

But I think Nash trade value is pretty low since there's no real market for a declining 35 years old PG who can't play a lick of defense. No contender/playoff team would trade for him, imo : Lakers don't need a traditional PG, Celtics have Rondo and Marbury, Cavs have Mo Williams, Hornets have Paul, Spurs have Parker and so on... Since you can't rebuild with Nash either, you'll have to find a team willing to dump salary like the Kings (Udrih + Thomas + their 2010 1st rounder) or the Warriors (Belinelli + Maggette or Jackson). Pretty bleak.

Blazers wouldn't do both Batum and Rudy but given their jam at 2/3 position with 5 young promising players (+Roy/Outlaw/Webster), they sooner or later will have to shed one. Why not for Nash who would be the clutch shooting off. guy on an otherwise young and athletic team with great defensive ability? Blake is very inconsistent as the starting PG for them to achieve anything next year.

Don't even try to compare 6'8 Brand who has been out 2 years basically, 4years left on a max contract and significantly declined even before his latest injuries to a veteran minimum player in Grant Hill or a proven champion Shaquille O'Neal.

Many people just look at stats and get hardons for Brand and Boozer. And some would get rid of Shaq for Ben Wallace, without even financial gains. Their low opinion on Amare and Shaq's defense stems from their failure to cover up for Nash's ass. None of Brand, Boozer, or Wallace would look good here either, not to mention they are either injury prone or just too old. Chandler and Camby would do better, but nothing is more effective than trading away Nash and see what we got here.

 

[Covert Rain]

I looked up some info. I think the teams that could use Shaq would be based on the teams that score the least amount of points in the paint and struggle. They are as follows:

Team - Rank
Por - 20
Mil - 21
NJN - 22
Atl - 23
Clev - 24
Det - 25
Mia - 26
NOH - 27
TOR - 28
SAS - 29
Dallas - 30

Portland, Cleveland, Detroit,New Orleans and Dallas makes sense to me. I left off Miami because he isn't going back there and don't think he would ever end up in San Antonio. Here is the most interesting part. Knowing how Shaq could still fill the paint on defense, if you look at the top 11 worst teams at defending the paint, the only two playoff teams that fit that bill is the Lakers or Utah but I don't see those as very viable.

My bet would be Cleveland, Detroit or New Orleans. I doubt the Suns would want the Dallas junk in return. If Shaq want's to win a ring, those 3 teams would be the most likely destination IMO.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Instead of pie in the sky projections where we put much to value on our own assets lets talk about what wil really happen.

This offseason the Suns will trade Shaq for expiring contracts likely to Dallas.

The Suns will try and trade Amare for 3 cents on the dollar in the offseason because of the severity of his eye issue with the justification of getting something back for him before he leaves. If not its only because they want to build up his value before the deadline.

They will let Nash play out his contract out of "respect". He will then sign with Lebron and Chris Bosh in NY for 5 million a year over 3 years in 2010.

Hill and Barnes will be gone as they leave for greener pastures.

The focus of the team next year will be JRich, Barbosa, and half a season of Amare with Gentry as coach. They will win 30 games next year and the only excitement will be watching the progression of Dragic and Dudley.

Hopefully they can get a pick for Amare and a young starter at the deadline otherwise a Top 5 pick will be property of OKC in 2010 aswell.

The Suns will convince fans they are making a run at Dwyane Wade in 2010 except he will resign in Miami and leave us overpaying/signing some second rate late in the game FA's ala Tom Gugliotta.

Steve Kerr will be fired and go back to TBS.

Fin.

 

[jandaman]

Don't even try to compare 6'8 Brand who has been out 2 years basically, 4years left on a max contract and significantly declined even before his latest injuries to a veteran minimum player in Grant Hill or a proven champion Shaquille O'Neal.

Comparing accomplishments?

Or ability to re-coup using Suns training/healing staff?


Brand, you admitted is a 15/8 player coming off injury.

Significantly declined... is a bit harsh.
Stoudemire averaged 26/9... pre injury to 23/9 (30/9 post Marion trade)...(last season)... to 21/8 this season.... is that classified as declining or mis-use?


Bottomline, Brand isnt as bad as you claim he is... he isnt worth a Stoudemire straight swap... thats the general consensus and fair enough.

 

[HooverDam]

The more I screw around w/ the Trade Machine, the more I think the Suns won't be able to move Shaq. Sure you can trade him to Dallas, but why? He comes off the books after next year, and you're not getting anything worthwile back from Big D and their contracts are longer.

If you do Dampier+Stackhouse for Shaq, have you done something better than just let Shaq expire? I don't really think so. Now if Dallas will send you a first rounder, then jump on it, as we need to stock up on those as much as possible.

I think they should try to move Nash unless Nash really wants to stay here for some reason. Ideally they'd trade him to a contender but they may be tricky. Obviously NY is always going to come up as a destination for Nash, and I'd consider doing Nash for Larry Hughes & a #1. Hughes is AWFUL and his contract stinks, but it ends at the same time as Nashs, and you would be getting a pick. With Nash on the roster they can probably make the playoffs next year in the East and make sure one of the top flight 2010 FA's signs with them.

Im all for trading J-Rich, but I dont really want to dream up scenarios because he's got a fairly reasonable contract and a nice skill set, so he could end up a lot of places. Again, as long as we get a 1st rounder for him thats all I really care.

Shop Amare, but due to his knees and now eye, you'll likely only get pennies on the dollar for him. I think they should hold onto him and build around him and LB.

 

[binkar]

Shaq and Nash have some value for 2 reasons.

1) They both play at a pretty high level still and could help put a contending team over the top

2) They both have big contracts who expire after this season and would be useful for team who are looking for large expiring contracts for the 2010 offseason.

That said, unless we can get a first round pick for either this year or next year in return for each of these guys then we might as well hold onto them. We might as well leave these guys on the roster and let them expire so we can be a player in the 2010 free agency. Do I expect us to be able to get a Wade, Lebron, or Bosh? No. But we can at least pick up a few solid players that can be pieces to our foundation for when we really can pick up some young players in the 2011 draft when we finally will have our own draft picks again.

Also, we might as well trade J-Rich if we can get some solid young players or draft picks in return. He is one of those players who you can't build around, yet he isn't very aggresive enough when he isn't the first option.

 

[Ollie]

Blazers wouldn't do both Batum and Rudy but given their jam at 2/3 position with 5 young promising players (+Roy/Outlaw/Webster), they sooner or later will have to shed one. Why not for Nash who would be the clutch shooting off. guy on an otherwise young and athletic team with great defensive ability? Blake is very inconsistent as the starting PG for them to achieve anything next year.

As long as Batum and Fernandez play under their rookie contracts, there's no rush for them. They'll probably move Outlaw or Webster if he plays again some day.

The more I screw around w/ the Trade Machine, the more I think the Suns won't be able to move Shaq. Sure you can trade him to Dallas, but why? He comes off the books after next year, and you're not getting anything worthwile back from Big D and their contracts are longer.

If you do Dampier+Stackhouse for Shaq, have you done something better than just let Shaq expire? I don't really think so. Now if Dallas will send you a first rounder, then jump on it, as we need to stock up on those as much as possible.

I think they should try to move Nash unless Nash really wants to stay here for some reason. Ideally they'd trade him to a contender but they may be tricky. Obviously NY is always going to come up as a destination for Nash, and I'd consider doing Nash for Larry Hughes & a #1. Hughes is AWFUL and his contract stinks, but it ends at the same time as Nashs, and you would be getting a pick. With Nash on the roster they can probably make the playoffs next year in the East and make sure one of the top flight 2010 FA's signs with them.

Wholeheartedly agree.

Expiring or not, you can't move a contract as big as Shaq's without taking back at least one bad contract or worse players. And if there's no first rounders involved, these deals won't help the Suns to reload, unfortunately.

I'd do a Dampier + Stackhouse + a 2010 first rounder in a heartbeat. Add another first rounder and I'd take Matt Carroll and his ridiculous contract.
If the Suns do not plan on rebuilding via free agency by letting Shaq's and Nash's contracts expire, they need draft picks, and they need them now.

But seriously, trading Shaq to the Clippers and rebuild around Baron Davis, his declining production and his big contract ? Let's sign Don Nelson as a coach and embrace mediocrity for the next 5 years.