Post 49ers Overreaction Thread

phillycard

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What facts are these based off of?
I'm speaking in terms of patience for QB's. People already calling Bryce Young a bust underscores that. Mac Jones and Zac Wilson are likely both finished in this league. Even in anomalies like Bryce Purdy, it paints the picture that great QB's are just a draft pick away. Throw out the qb you have and go get another one. No one has patience to develop qb's and give them a chance. Don't get me wrong Kyler's had plenty of time if this team feels it needs to go in another direction, but with the way he's playing now, his timer is quickly running out, fair or unfair. This is a decision that will be made solely by the Arizona Cardinals and we as fans will have to live with it. They will look at every throw, every snap, every completion, interception and touchdown and decide either way. It's not a lock they will blindly bring him back is basically what I'm saying.
 
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kerouac9

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I'm speaking in terms of patience for QB's. People already calling Bryce Young a bust underscores that. Mac Jones and Zac Wilson are likely both finished in this league. Even in anomalies like Bryce Purdy, it paints the picture that great QB's are just a draft pick away. Throw out the qb you have and go get another one. No one has patience to develop qb's and give them a chance. Don't get me wrong Kyler's had plenty of time if this team feels it needs to go in another direction, but with the way he's playing now, his timer is quickly running out. Fair or unfair.
I'd argue that Drew Lock, Jordan Love, and Patrick Mahomes are pretty powerful counter-examples.
 

phillycard

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I'd argue that Drew Lock, Jordan Love, and Patrick Mahomes are pretty powerful counter-examples.
That's very fair. I do believe that the organizations that take pains into getting it right will be rewarded, but there's no denying this is a very "keeping up with the Jones's league". People's jobs are lost or kept over choosing the right quarterback. All of a sudden Eric Bienemy is and was overrated. Ya think Sam Howell has just a little bit to do with that? I'm not even the biggest fan of his, but maybe this wasn't the situation to take for someone with head coaching aspirations.
 
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Chopper0080

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Weren't you the one saying Rondale could fill the role and we didn't need a credible second back earlier in the year?
Yes, that was when I had deluded myself to thinking Kyler might be worth his contract. Now, it doesn't look like he will be, it doesn't look like we will draft a QB, and I still want to win games.
 
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BirdGangThing

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I agree we need multiple WRs but I wouldn't give FA WR big money with Kyler as our QB. Not now at least.
I think we've seen Kyler be successful with top talents - did well with Dhop and Hollywood - recently McBride - I'd sure like to see him spread it around more tho - I think that's win defenses key in - when you spread it around it keeps the ball hawks honest
 

Chopper0080

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I think we've seen Kyler be successful with top talents - did well with Dhop and Hollywood - recently McBride - I'd sure like to see him spread it around more tho - I think that's win defenses key in - when you spread it around it keeps the ball hawks honest
I just don't believe you can risk tying up 15+ mil for a FA WR when there is a legit chance Kyler doesn't vibe with him or can't get him the ball.
 

DaHilg

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I just don't believe you can risk tying up 15+ mil for a FA WR when there is a legit chance Kyler doesn't vibe with him or can't get him the ball.
So just continue to set him up for failure? Most of the top teams have 2-3 receiving options better than ours. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that even the best QBs struggle w out their #1 option in the lineup.. let alone taking out their #2 and #3 option. Kyler’s a big question mark right now, but I don’t think you give up on him until you at least have adequate weapons and Oline around him. This is what all the top teams have? Why wouldn’t we give Kyler that same opportunity?
 

Dback Jon

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So just continue to set him up for failure? Most of the top teams have 2-3 receiving options better than ours. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that even the best QBs struggle w out their #1 option in the lineup.. let alone taking out their #2 and #3 option. Kyler’s a big question mark right now, but I don’t think you give up on him until you at least have adequate weapons and Oline around him. This is what all the top teams have? Why wouldn’t we give Kyler that same opportunity?
Yeah, I don't understand that logic at all.

Even if Kyler fails next year, you have a #1 receiver on the team for the following season and new QB.
 

kerouac9

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So just continue to set him up for failure? Most of the top teams have 2-3 receiving options better than ours. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that even the best QBs struggle w out their #1 option in the lineup.. let alone taking out their #2 and #3 option. Kyler’s a big question mark right now, but I don’t think you give up on him until you at least have adequate weapons and Oline around him. This is what all the top teams have? Why wouldn’t we give Kyler that same opportunity?

Yeah, I don't understand that logic at all.

Even if Kyler fails next year, you have a #1 receiver on the team for the following season and new QB.

Don’t see why people are cool with this logic this year but not next. If Monti believed this we’d likely still have DHop.

I think Chopper is fine getting a wideout, but not committing to a Kirk-level contract or higher if Kyler’s gonna refuse to target him.
 

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Don’t see why people are cool with this logic this year but not next. If Monti believed this we’d likely still have DHop.

I think Chopper is fine getting a wideout, but not committing to a Kirk-level contract or higher if Kyler’s gonna refuse to target him.
I am almost certain DHop isn’t here because of a cultural change. I can’t imagine JG and Monti’s personality being okay with a guy simply not practicing as they wanted a dramatic change of the toxic environment..

Since when does Kyler refuse to target any legit receiving option? Didn’t know that was now a thing ?
 

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I agree we need multiple WRs but I wouldn't give FA WR big money with Kyler as our QB. Not now at least.
But wouldn’t that be improving the roster inspite of Kyler? Any player we sign is either going to make Kyler better or it won’t. If it doesn’t then the next guy will have players in place.
 

Chopper0080

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Don’t see why people are cool with this logic this year but not next. If Monti believed this we’d likely still have DHop.

I think Chopper is fine getting a wideout, but not committing to a Kirk-level contract or higher if Kyler’s gonna refuse to target him.
Yeah...you just draft one or two WRs and use your FA dollars on players non-Kyler dependent. It sucks if the drafted player doesn't vibe but it isn't as detrimental as a big contract on an older player.

If we drafted Nabers for example, and he didn't vibe with Kyler, Kyler is likely gone in a couple years and Nabers may vibe with the next QB while he is heading into his prime years. You sign Higgins, you pay 18 mil and have wasted two or three of his prime years not vibing with Kyler and acclimating to a young QB.
 

kerouac9

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Yeah...you just draft one or two WRs and use your FA dollars on players non-Kyler dependent. It sucks if the drafted player doesn't vibe but it isn't as detrimental as a big contract on an older player.

If we drafted Nabers for example, and he didn't vibe with Kyler, Kyler is likely gone in a couple years and Nabers may vibe with the next QB while he is heading into his prime years. You sign Higgins, you pay 18 mil and have wasted two or three of his prime years not vibing with Kyler and acclimating to a young QB.
I go back and forth on this. I said in another thread that you spend cap dollars on a backup QB, not draft capital. Here I say spend draft capital on a WR, not cap money. Why am I doing this?

I think it's about commitment. I don't mind spending (relatively) high dollars on a short-term commitment, even at WR. If the Cards want to sign Mike Evans for 2 years, $40 million, completely guaranteed, I probably don't mind that. If Kyler doesn't vibe with him we come out clean in 2026.

If the Cards signed Michael Pittman for 5 years, $110 million with $60 million guaranteed, I probably have a bigger challenge, because you're locked in if the vibe shifts.

I guess the worst-case scenario is what's going on with George Pickens in Pittsburgh and (probably) Drake London in Atlanta: You have a talented player withering on the vine for the long-term. There are too many ways to get better with high draft picks to burn them on tools that won't get used.
 

football karma

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i am not sure the "vibe with Kyler" thing is significant.

they brought DHop in and had lots of targets, they signed AJ Green a few years ago and he had tons of targets. Kirk had tons of targets. They brought Hollywood in last year and he got many targets.

this isnt an argument to go spend $20mm on a FA WR, but i think the evidence suggests the concern over Kyler being on the same page with a new WR is overstated.
 

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I go back and forth on this. I said in another thread that you spend cap dollars on a backup QB, not draft capital. Here I say spend draft capital on a WR, not cap money. Why am I doing this?

I think it's about commitment. I don't mind spending (relatively) high dollars on a short-term commitment, even at WR. If the Cards want to sign Mike Evans for 2 years, $40 million, completely guaranteed, I probably don't mind that. If Kyler doesn't vibe with him we come out clean in 2026.

If the Cards signed Michael Pittman for 5 years, $110 million with $60 million guaranteed, I probably have a bigger challenge, because you're locked in if the vibe shifts.

I guess the worst-case scenario is what's going on with George Pickens in Pittsburgh and (probably) Drake London in Atlanta: You have a talented player withering on the vine for the long-term. There are too many ways to get better with high draft picks to burn them on tools that won't get used.
You're uninformed about Pickens. There is talk of deactivating him in Pittsburgh this week. Loads of talent, 10 cent head, and he owes you money on heart.
 

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You're uninformed about Pickens. There is talk of deactivating him in Pittsburgh this week. Loads of talent, 10 cent head, and he owes you money on heart.
How do the Steelers keep getting all of these headcases at the wr position.
 

Chopper0080

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i am not sure the "vibe with Kyler" thing is significant.

they brought DHop in and had lots of targets, they signed AJ Green a few years ago and he had tons of targets. Kirk had tons of targets. They brought Hollywood in last year and he got many targets.

this isnt an argument to go spend $20mm on a FA WR, but i think the evidence suggests the concern over Kyler being on the same page with a new WR is overstated.
I feel like it is often said that Kyler and *insert player name here* are not on the same page and just need to figure things out. That Kyler trusts *insert player name* and that is why he is getting the ball. I don't feel like I am making this up. And I am not worried about Kyler maybe needing more time to trust WRs but I certainly need to account for it.
 

phillycard

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I feel like it is often said that Kyler and *insert player name here* are not on the same page and just need to figure things out. That Kyler trusts *insert player name* and that is why he is getting the ball. I don't feel like I am making this up. And I am not worried about Kyler maybe needing more time to trust WRs but I certainly need to account for it.
It's sad, but it's almost like that's an excuse. How many quarterbacks have the liberty of choosing every one of their skill position guys? Unless you're Aaron Rodgers and can command that kind of provisioning, you damn well better figure it out. That's what OTA's and training camp are for. Nobody has time to wait until week 9 to "get on the same page".
 
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DaHilg

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It's sad, but it's almost like that's an excuse. How many quarterbacks have the liberty of choosing every one of their skill position guys? Unless you're Aaron Rodgers and can command that kind of provisioning, you damn well better figure it out. That's what OTA's and training camp are for. Nobody has time to wait until week 9 to "get on the same page".
This is just a false narrative.. where do people come up with this? Have never heard of kyler not vibing with a WR? We’ve just had serious lack of receiving options.
 
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