Suns @ Thunder Thursday game thread 2-24-2022

1tinsoldier

Hall of Famer
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Posts
1,385
Reaction score
501
Location
AZ
imo, it's possible Holiday could switch places in the rotation with Cam Payne if Holiday can be consistent and Cam doesn't return to last year's form before the playoffs.

Payne is more of a shooter and Holiday seems like a more traditional pg who could learn from Paul and apply what he learns.
 

cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
78,122
Reaction score
40,547
imo, it's possible Holiday could switch places in the rotation with Cam Payne if Holiday can be consistent and Cam doesn't return to last year's form before the playoffs.

Payne is more of a shooter and Holiday seems like a more traditional pg who could learn from Paul and apply what he learns.
Personally, I think Holiday and Payne can keep Shamet’s almost completely useless ass on the bench for good when Payne comes back. That would be 2 pesky defenders/shot creators/makers with the second unit.
 

Phrazbit

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Posts
16,233
Reaction score
5,779
Personally, I think Holiday and Payne can keep Shamet’s almost completely useless ass on the bench for good when Payne comes back. That would be 2 pesky defenders/shot creators/makers with the second unit.

Hard to believe a guy who shot 40% and 45% from 3, on pretty high volume, in his first 2 years would regress so quickly.

I'd been holding out hope that he just needed to stop pressing and find his space in the offense but there has been no sign of improvement. About 2-3 times per month he isn't flat out trash on offense. His defense is solid, far better than Payton, but Holiday and Payne are as good on that side of the ball and a offensively far better.
 

Dr. Jones

Has No Time For Love
Joined
Nov 2, 2004
Posts
19,482
Reaction score
8,297
Devin Booker looked like he tried to control tempo down the stretch like Chris Paul.

This should make him a better player as he played with poise.
Exactly what I thought. He had some careless TO's still but I saw growth and composure on some possessions. What an amazing sign of growth for a guy already doing stud level ish in the league.
 

Sparky16

Veteran
Joined
Jul 1, 2021
Posts
140
Reaction score
106
Location
Phoenix
imo, it's possible Holiday could switch places in the rotation with Cam Payne if Holiday can be consistent and Cam doesn't return to last year's form before the playoffs.

Payne is more of a shooter and Holiday seems like a more traditional pg who could learn from Paul and apply what he learns.
Im cool with Payne/Holliday being the 3 & 4 Gaurds and pushing the brick launching Shamet to 5th. I assume Efrin's agent is looking for a landing spot in 6 weeks when CP3 is back. Holliday is a friggen steal
 
OP
OP
Mainstreet

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
93,409
Reaction score
32,159
Exactly what I thought. He had some careless TO's still but I saw growth and composure on some possessions. What an amazing sign of growth for a guy already doing stud level ish in the league.

It's almost like Devin Booker was asking himself what Chris Paul would do in the late game situation. He was trying to control tempo and get the whole team involved.

It's amazing when he did this and didn't force anything, his own game exploded.
 

JCSunsfan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Posts
20,748
Reaction score
5,013
Looks like point Book is the plan for a while and Book is determined to do it right with CP3 coaching him behind the scenes. Slow it down, involve your teammates first, use your own offense when the defense lags off and late in the game. Do not turn the ball over.

What I know after watching Book now is that when he determines he is going to add something to his game, he usually succeeds at it--midrange, post game, defense. None of these were really in his game coming into the league. I expect point Book to be a success.
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
40,114
Reaction score
9,033
Location
Round Rock, TX
Looks like point Book is the plan for a while and Book is determined to do it right with CP3 coaching him behind the scenes. Slow it down, involve your teammates first, use your own offense when the defense lags off and late in the game. Do not turn the ball over.

What I know after watching Book now is that when he determines he is going to add something to his game, he usually succeeds at it--midrange, post game, defense. None of these were really in his game coming into the league. I expect point Book to be a success.
He's also got much better finishers now than when they first experimented with Point Book a few years ago.
 

JCSunsfan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Posts
20,748
Reaction score
5,013
He's also got much better finishers now than when they first experimented with Point Book a few years ago.
Yes. If the Book and Mikal starting at guards thing is the way we go until CP3 gets back, and Book is as effective at it as I believe he will be, Book will be in the MVP discussion by playoff time.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
28,848
Reaction score
6,890
Location
Arizona
20 points, 19 assists, 6 rebounds and 7 steals isn't a good comparison? There have been similar stat lines on the Suns with 5 steals, but I thought the steals were the most unique part of the stat line so I stuck with at least 6.
Two different things. Nobody said that stat line wasn't impressive. Is it a good comparison? No. A good comparison is looking at the Suns players who have done something similar scoring 25. There are none. So, the next best comparison would be looking across the NBA. The Suns reaching for an obscure record is no different than knocking 5 points off the scoring and reaching for stats that fit a narrative.

Like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if you look across the NBA it's more common (just so happens a first for the Suns).
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
28,848
Reaction score
6,890
Location
Arizona
Hard to believe a guy who shot 40% and 45% from 3, on pretty high volume, in his first 2 years would regress so quickly.

I'd been holding out hope that he just needed to stop pressing and find his space in the offense but there has been no sign of improvement. About 2-3 times per month he isn't flat out trash on offense. His defense is solid, far better than Payton, but Holiday and Payne are as good on that side of the ball and a offensively far better.
This. I mean he either is a really really bad fit in this system or his shot has fallen off a cliff. At the very least he should be shooting at a similar clip (if not down). That would at least be acceptable. I remember the Suns playing against that guy and him being a sharpshooter in the some of those games. He has been missing easy wide open looks all season.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
32,524
Reaction score
9,694
Yes. If the Book and Mikal starting at guards thing is the way we go until CP3 gets back, and Book is as effective at it as I believe he will be, Book will be in the MVP discussion by playoff time.
I'm a little more concerned than most here I guess. OKC is a bad team and defenses haven't analyzed our current strengths and weaknesses yet. I still think we'll stumble a bit without CP3. I'm confident we'll hold onto the top spot but I still expect we'll see some extra losses.
 
OP
OP
Mainstreet

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
93,409
Reaction score
32,159
I'm a little more concerned than most here I guess. OKC is a bad team and defenses haven't analyzed our current strengths and weaknesses yet. I still think we'll stumble a bit without CP3. I'm confident we'll hold onto the top spot but I still expect we'll see some extra losses.

The Suns haven't figured out the best lineups with Paul out either. I'm not sure how much more Monty needs to see of Holiday but I think he can start now.

Maybe Monty wants to see more of point Booker before making a change. I was impressed how focused Booker played last night as a play maker. Some Chris Paul has rubbed off on him.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
32,524
Reaction score
9,694
The Suns haven't figured out the best lineups with Paul out either. I'm not sure how much more Monty needs to see of Holiday but I think he can start now.

Maybe Monty wants to see more of point Booker before making a change. I was impressed how focused Booker played last night as a play maker. Some Chris Paul has rubbed off on him.
I think, as teams work harder to take the ball out of Devin's hands, we're absolutely going to need AH out there (or Payne). Booker is special but he needs another true ballhandler out there with him.
 
OP
OP
Mainstreet

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
93,409
Reaction score
32,159
I think, as teams work harder to take the ball out of Devin's hands, we're absolutely going to need AH out there (or Payne). Booker is special but he needs another true ballhandler out there with him.

It's a balancing act for me. I'm seeing room for growth with Booker controlling the game but I don't want to overload him either with minutes and duties. A part of me wants to see if he has another level.

Devin Booker played with more poise last night than I have seen in awhile because he was thinking team first with a point guard mentality. I like for him to think this way and it unleashes more of his game as we saw in the final minutes. All of a sudden it clicked for him. However, I think Holiday being in the game was a part of that.

There will be games where the Suns need point Booker down the road.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
28,848
Reaction score
6,890
Location
Arizona
It's a balancing act for me. I'm seeing room for growth with Booker controlling the game but I don't want to overload him either with minutes and duties. A part of me wants to see if he has another level.

Devin Booker played with more poise last night than I have seen in awhile because he was thinking team first with a point guard mentality. I like for him to think this way and it unleashes more of his game as we saw in the final minutes. All of a sudden it clicked for him. However, I think Holiday being in the game was a part of that.

There will be games where the Suns need point Booker down the road.
You have to think that him doing way too much was in his dome the entire night. It's no secret how he plays when he thinks the world is on his shoulders and what CP3 has meant to the team. The key is playing smart. That is the next level. Not necessarily him adding CP3 like assists numbers to his average night. Don't get me wrong that would be epic. However, the mental part to me is his next level. Knowing when to do things. Maybe CP3 has rubbed off on him more than we know.
 
OP
OP
Mainstreet

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
93,409
Reaction score
32,159
You have to think that him doing way too much was in his dome the entire night. It's no secret how he plays when he thinks the world is on his shoulders and what CP3 has meant to the team. The key is playing smart. That is the next level. Not necessarily him adding CP3 like assists numbers to his average night. Don't get me wrong that would be epic. However, the mental part to me is his next level. Knowing when to do things. Maybe CP3 has rubbed off on him more than we know.

I think playing smarter is the next level for Booker too. He can maximize his talent that way. With Paul out he was put in position to have to think team first. I could almost see the tumblers clicking in his brain. It was like he was asking himself, how would Chris Paul close out the game. I'm not measuring it in assists although that is a byproduct. He was also thinking about taking the right shots at the end of the game.
 

Dback Jon

Killer Snail
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
66,970
Reaction score
19,550
Location
Scottsdale
Looks like point Book is the plan for a while and Book is determined to do it right with CP3 coaching him behind the scenes. Slow it down, involve your teammates first, use your own offense when the defense lags off and late in the game. Do not turn the ball over.

What I know after watching Book now is that when he determines he is going to add something to his game, he usually succeeds at it--midrange, post game, defense. None of these were really in his game coming into the league. I expect point Book to be a success.
I was glad to see him slow it down - that is what I commented during the second quarter - we needed CP3 to take control and not keep running.
 

Dback Jon

Killer Snail
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
66,970
Reaction score
19,550
Location
Scottsdale
I'm a little more concerned than most here I guess. OKC is a bad team and defenses haven't analyzed our current strengths and weaknesses yet. I still think we'll stumble a bit without CP3. I'm confident we'll hold onto the top spot but I still expect we'll see some extra losses.
I think we will as well, but also regardless of the opponent, it was the first game without CP3. I think next game, when a team is making a run like OKC did in the 2nd, Book will handle it differently
 

zett

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 23, 2002
Posts
1,225
Reaction score
184
Location
Redding, CA.
I think we will as well, but also regardless of the opponent, it was the first game without CP3. I think next game, when a team is making a run like OKC did in the 2nd, Book will handle it differently
hopefully Monty does too!
 

1tinsoldier

Hall of Famer
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Posts
1,385
Reaction score
501
Location
AZ
Looks like point Book is the plan for a while and Book is determined to do it right with CP3 coaching him behind the scenes. Slow it down, involve your teammates first, use your own offense when the defense lags off and late in the game. Do not turn the ball over.

What I know after watching Book now is that when he determines he is going to add something to his game, he usually succeeds at it--midrange, post game, defense. None of these were really in his game coming into the league. I expect point Book to be a success.

i agree with most of this, but i'd like to think that this will be a new period to be reverenced as "DB3" instead of the failed point Book experiment of the past -- ideally, that DB continues to be more selective with his shot attempts, and controls the pace. One of the reasons we got this far in the season without CP3 injuries is because of his control and pace -- and, you may have noticed, he doesn't drive hard to the basket often, which can lead to him being fouled hard. Booker pulls his hammy exploding to the basket. It's a great move, but Booker MUST be preserved for the remainder of the season.

so it's important that DB3 is no more than the 2nd pg in the rotation, and, hopefully, 3rd behind a reasonably productive Payne and Holiday.
 

cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
78,122
Reaction score
40,547
I'm a little more concerned than most here I guess. OKC is a bad team and defenses haven't analyzed our current strengths and weaknesses yet. I still think we'll stumble a bit without CP3. I'm confident we'll hold onto the top spot but I still expect we'll see some extra losses.
this.

but i think with a little more time, Monty will get more comfortable with Holiday, especially if he keeps playing this well. and that could be really big for this team. they've got a couple games against not great opponents the next 3 of 4... so hopefully they can grind out 2 or 3 wins in that stretch and not only get Holiday up to speed but maybe have Payne ready to go by the end of this homestand or sometime during the 3 game east coast roadie.
 

cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
78,122
Reaction score
40,547
can I just say how much I've LOVED watching Devin's progression on defense? He leaked like a sieve just two years ago and now I not only regard him as better, but I think he's a flat out GOOD defender. He's a guy who makes the absolute MOST out of his God-given abilities. A sports role model I think kids can really look up to. Didn't force his way out when things were rough (actually atrociously terrible), didn't make a stink in the press when he didn't get the accolades he thought he deserved. He persevered, worked on every aspect of his game and has turned himself and the Suns into a legit franchise again.

CP3 never comes here without Devin blossoming. It's just awesome to watch, even when I criticize sometimes.
 
Top