Shut it down, Amare...

[sly fly]

This game has caused me to do a complete 180 on my thoughts about Amare playing this year.

All I've heard is that Amare has to "fight" through the pain and stiffness.

However, judging from this game... there is no "fight". All I saw was a player who is going through the motions.

He was completely and utterly embarrasing himself out there. He was being outrebounded by Cliff Robinson. He haphazardly set picks. And, he looked stiff as a board.

What the hell is he thinking? If you can't play, or want to show the desire to keep up with your teammates, then just say so. It will be OK if you don't play his year.

And, by the way, someone needs to tell Tim Thomas to wake up. Now I see why Scott Skiles didn't want him.

 

[greensborohill]

He looked like he was hobbling a lot. . . did you see that as well. . . he doesn't look 80% to me.

 

[Evil Ash]

This game has caused me to do a complete 180 on my thoughts about Amare playing this year.

All I've heard is that Amare has to "fight" through the pain and stiffness.

However, judging from this game... there is no "fight". All I saw was a player who is going through the motions.

He was completely and utterly embarrasing himself out there. He was being outrebounded by Cliff Robinson. He haphazardly set picks. And, he looked stiff as a board.

What the hell is he thinking? If you can't play, or want to show the desire to keep up with your teammates, then just say so. It will be OK if you don't play his year.

And, by the way, someone needs to tell Tim Thomas to wake up. Now I see why Scott Skiles didn't want him.

If we're going based on this game, everyone should be shut down except Marion.

When the Nets are getting offensive boards off of FTs with regularity, you know the effort is lacking

 

[sly fly]

If we're going based on this game, everyone should be shut down except Marion.

When the Nets are getting offensive boards off of FTs with regularity, you know the effort is lacking

Did you see Amare move out there?

Call me crazy, but I've seen lamp posts move more fluid.

 

[Evil Ash]

Did you see Amare move out there?

Call me crazy, but I've seen lamp posts move more fluid.

I known he didn't look good, neither has anyone else. I don't know what the heck is going on ... even Nash looked like a stiff out there.

 

[elindholm]

I said Stoudemire looked a little stiff in his first game back, but of course I was shot down. I have no idea how much of this is lingering atrophy from his muscles and joints and how much is psychological. However, one thing worth mentioning, I think, is that flying across the country is very fatiguing, and there's no way around that. It wouldn't be too surprising if the trek aggravated Stoudemire's stiffness and inconsistent mental energy.

As far as the rest of the team goes, who knows. Stoudemire's return is obviously a distraction, but we all knew that would be the case. So far they're 2-1 with him, and it will be fine if they can go .667 the rest of the way, so I wouldn't say it's a big deal yet.

 

[AZZenny]

flying is hell on the knees -- but I suspect the Suns probably get plenty of leg room, so maybe not.

The other night he just looked like his timing and his game sense were way off.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Wow, am I glad you all aren't the Suns trainers. The absolute worst thing for Amare would be to shut it down right now.

Eddie Johnson said before the game that Amare right now is "five days into training camp." At that point all your muscles are screaming at you. You feel like you can hardly move.

How many of you work out? Let's say you took 3 months off with injury, travel or whatever. Now you start working out again. How does your body feel five days into. With me, I am hobbling around like a 90 year old man.

DAntoni and others said that this is exactly the way it would be. Right now, the Suns are getting a second training camp and preseason--especially Amare.

The fantastic thing is that we've all but got the #2 seed locked up, so we can afford to do it right.

 

[Chaplin]

Wow, am I glad you all aren't the Suns trainers. The absolute worst thing for Amare would be to shut it down right now.

Eddie Johnson said before the game that Amare right now is "five days into training camp." At that point all your muscles are screaming at you. You feel like you can hardly move.

How many of you work out? Let's say you took 3 months off with injury, travel or whatever. Now you start working out again. How does your body feel five days into. With me, I am hobbling around like a 90 year old man.

DAntoni and others said that this is exactly the way it would be. Right now, the Suns are getting a second training camp and preseason--especially Amare.

The fantastic thing is that we've all but got the #2 seed locked up, so we can afford to do it right.

Exactly.

Those of you whining about Amare right now are crazy. I'm sorry, but there's no other word for it. EVERYONE on the team played like crap. Maybe if you guys ran the team, you'd just bench everyone and save them until next year. How about that?

Amare is the LEAST of our problems in this game. He didn't lose this game for us any more than he won the Nugget game for us. So people just have to settle down. It was a very, very bad game. We're entitled to have one once in a while.

 

[Chaplin]

I said Stoudemire looked a little stiff in his first game back, but of course I was shot down. I have no idea how much of this is lingering atrophy from his muscles and joints and how much is psychological. However, one thing worth mentioning, I think, is that flying across the country is very fatiguing, and there's no way around that. It wouldn't be too surprising if the trek aggravated Stoudemire's stiffness and inconsistent mental energy.

As far as the rest of the team goes, who knows. Stoudemire's return is obviously a distraction, but we all knew that would be the case. So far they're 2-1 with him, and it will be fine if they can go .667 the rest of the way, so I wouldn't say it's a big deal yet.

Are you saying that a big part of this loss can be attributed to Amare's return? A little alarmist, don't you think, Eric?

 

[Gaddabout]

Wow, that was fast. And just when I stopped giving the blind optimists a hard time.

Amare looks the same to me as he did 1 month ago when I caught his practice highlights. He has no explosion. We may not see that again until mid-season next year ... or longer.

His knees will swell (particularly with travel and change in humidity) and his muscles will ache from overcompensation. I'm not at all surprised he has back spasms. His posture has to change to adjust to the lack of strength in the knees. I know all about that.

 

[Chaplin]

Wow, that was fast. And just when I stopped giving the blind optimists a hard time.

Amare looks the same to me as he did 1 month ago when I caught his practice highlights. He has no explosion. We may not see that again until mid-season next year ... or longer.

His knees will swell (particularly with travel and change in humidity) and his muscles will ache from overcompensation. I'm not at all surprised he has back spasms. His posture has to change to adjust to the lack of strength in the knees. I know all about that.

Phew. And I thought we didn't have any doctors on this board!

 

[boisesuns]

There's more drama than high school on this board sometimes

 

[arthurracoon]

Wow, am I glad you all aren't the Suns trainers. The absolute worst thing for Amare would be to shut it down right now.

Eddie Johnson said before the game that Amare right now is "five days into training camp." At that point all your muscles are screaming at you. You feel like you can hardly move.

How many of you work out? Let's say you took 3 months off with injury, travel or whatever. Now you start working out again. How does your body feel five days into. With me, I am hobbling around like a 90 year old man.

DAntoni and others said that this is exactly the way it would be. Right now, the Suns are getting a second training camp and preseason--especially Amare.

The fantastic thing is that we've all but got the #2 seed locked up, so we can afford to do it right.

 

[elindholm]

Are you saying that a big part of this loss can be attributed to Amare's return?

How on earth did you reach that conclusion?

 

[baltimorer]

Those of you whining about Amare right now are crazy. I'm sorry, but there's no other word for it. EVERYONE on the team played like crap. Maybe if you guys ran the team, you'd just bench everyone and save them until next year. How about that?

Amare is the LEAST of our problems in this game. He didn't lose this game for us any more than he won the Nugget game for us. So people just have to settle down. It was a very, very bad game. We're entitled to have one once in a while.

Dude, you're the one who is crazy. For you to completely dismiss the possibility that more rehab might be best for a guy who went through the most serious, scary knee surgery in sports SIX MONTHS AGO might very well be a sign of a psychotic disorder. Everytime somebody says something even questioning Amare's health, you write three posts saying how impossible and insane such an idea is.

Who cares about the game tonight? It's one game. I don't think people are saying that Amare necessarily played worse than other players, but to compare Amare with the rest of the Suns doesn't make any sense, anyway. Amare has played 3 games; the rest of them have played 60. So, you can't say, "Steve Nash looked stiff, and so did Amare, so they're both fine."

Look, you may not want to believe that Amare is progressing less than perfectly. You might be able to say, "Well, the Suns doctors have f*cked up the microfracture progression before, so they have it perfect now." But the rest of us have to deal with the fact that, in reality, there's a possibility that Amare is being a little too zealous in his return.

We all know that Amare has a little bit of that, "Me against the world," mentality. He basically raised his family. We know his history and we know that he has been through a lot tougher things than possibly coming back too early from a knee injury. Sure there's pain, but everybody knew there would be. Maybe he feels like he's just got to put on a stern, stolid face and fight through it, like he's done many times before. He loves the game of basketball, he wants nothing more than too win a championship, and this team might have what it takes. Then, let's talk about the doctors: everybody has a different threshhold for pain. If you ask 10 people with the same ailment how much pain they're in, you're likely to get 10 different answers. One person breaks his fingernail and is running up and down the room screaming explatives, the other guy gets shot in the shoulder and acts like nothing happened. Tell me, what guy do you think Amare is? If his MRI's show up looking good, and his strengthening is going well, then there's not a whole lot more that a doctor can do. At some point, it's up to Amare, and if he says, "I feel good," then what do you expect? It's not like he's lying to the doctors, but pain is subjective.

 

[Wally]

Don't press the panic button yet

I'll clean this up a bit and just say ..... I said to my wife "Wife, I wonder how many fans? are going to blame Amare for this total team failure?"

The TEAM had a BAD - no, HORRIBLE, day..... and tomorrow will still come. I'll be willing to bet we will have a better game against the Bucks - which is a pretty safe bet because this was the worst I've seen them play.

As far as Amare goes, he needs to play to get back into game shape. Give him a chance ...... and to pick on T Thomas for A bad game....GIVE ME A BREAK.


Forget it and move on.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I love how everybody sees the need to pick a side of the fence and fight to the death....there is a middle ground

I only caught the highlights but i can see what sly fly is saying. You can all say whatever you want about Amare flying cross country, amare not being in basketball shape and on and on.....But the bottom line is Amare just cannot move like he could last year. That has nothing to do with being in basketball shape and litle to do with the spacious airlines Suns team members fly on. If Amare was bricking shots and mistiming rebounds and passes that is one thing, but i saw two or three times where 58 year old Cliff freaking Robinson outplayed him and out jumped him to the ball.....ummm that scares the hell out of me, 6 months of rehab or not.....

Saying all that, i think with Amare at 80% (hopefully by the second round) i think we can win it all if everyone keeps playing to this seasons standards. So in that sense it is worth playing him to shape and sacrificing a few games along the way (and like it or not wally, amare WAS the reason behind tonights loss. We had been blow out once all season and then we lose by 38 tonight? Granted the Nets are hot but they beat us at our own game which NEVER happens. That doesnt make me any less of a fan for pointing that out. Its the truth and D'Antoni said it would be as much before Amare came back.)

Being that I am neither a trainer or a doctor I can only go by what i see and past trends. I KNOW Amare does not look the same. I KNOW micorfracture surgery ihas been mostly a death sentence to all who have had it. I KNOW players have stated that they came back to fast and overcompensated. I KNOW the Suns brass is very pedal to the metal and agressive when it comes to players getting healthy as they want a ring at almost all costs (moreso than most other teams i have noticed which is def. a good thing). And i KNOW 9/10 people associated with the Suns think this is their best chance to win it all.

So not that I am a doctor or trainer but lets not pretend that these guys dont have a vested interest in amare playing this season. I'm not saying they are trying to hurt the franchise, but i can also forsee a scenario where they are seeing what they want to see. And we all know the competitor in Amare wants to play.

If it was my team, and as a fan i consider this much so, I would have him sit it out. There are no guarantees next year but the worst case scenario is the franchise never being the same after reaggravating or not properly resting his knee this season. Even if there is a 10% chance at that, I'm not one for russian roulette.

This whole ordeal is just a damn shame...........

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Actually the sad and more likely outcome that comes from this game is that Nash might have lost the MVP in this game. Right now the lead story is Nets hold Nash scoreless in big win

As ludicrious as this is for a player who impacts the game without scoring, this is big ammunition for his critics. And national people might not have watched the Suns as closely as us and be swayed. I can already hear the local Nash-hater out here in South Florida, Dan LeBatard, on his radio show tomorrow saying "Dwayne Wade is the MVP. Would the MVP of the NBA ever be held scoreless? Was Michael Jordan held scoreless in a MVP year!?"

This completly neglecting that wade had a TERRIBLE game against the Pistons last week on national TV.

But this is also the same guy who said a vote for Nash last year was racist.

Damn i hope the Suns dont swoon at the end of this year. Nash is a mediocre (by his standards) finish and a strong finish from Wade or Nowitzki from not getting the award. That could possibly be linked as far as him not being added to the Hall of Fame. It's kinda looking ahead but ALL back to back MVP's are in the/going to be in the Hall of Fame. And he really deserves the award this year..

 

[elindholm]

If the MVP is decided according to what happens in Game #69 of an 82-game season, who needs it?

 

[golfcardfan]

I think most people realize that teams have bad games and this to me was only our 2nd of the season. If people judge Nash on this game instead of the 80 he probally plays MVP caliber all the time they are just stupid! On another note Amare, people need to calm down did you honestly expect a well conditioned Amare after not playing a game in what seems like a year? Give him a month or so to get his conditioning and mucsles built back up before all the panicking. He is like any player 3 days into training camp he is sore and slow and out of shape (suns game shape that is) Shoot half the players in the NBA are not in suns game shape I think we need to give him a little time folks before all the paranoia!

 

[Wally]

I love how everybody sees the need to pick a side of the fence and fight to the death....there is a middle ground

........... (and like it or not wally, amare WAS the reason behind tonights loss.........

And this is "Middle ground"?

Actually, I think it was Nash - his age has caught up with him, just like Cuban said it would. Did you notice how slow he was on the very first possession? Fire him, Big Jake moves faster than that.

 

[hsandhu]

One game will not effect the MVP. A week from now, people voting for the MVP will forget this game ever happened.

 

[Forrestham]

I appreciate the enthusiasm and the die hard Suns fans on this board but some of you need to take a chill pill.
I remember the doom and loom on this board after his injury. (Someone should pull up some old threads)
Heard the same thing after Joe Johnson was traded. "All we got is Boris Diaw"
As we know Boris has played excellent but on his best day he is not Amare.
We neeed Amare to get in the flow to bring home a championship. He looked bad tonite. The whole team looked bad. We got our stinking gmae out of the system. Only the 2nd blowout stinker in 67 days.
Eddie Johnson knows what he is talking about. He has much more credibility than any member in the press. As peole were upset about trading Nate Robinson, Eddie advised there was no way he was going to be as good as Barbosa.
Lets look at it as a stinker game and it is only one loss and move on

 

[baltimorer]

Lets look at it as a stinker game and it is only one loss and move on

But maybe this whole, "it's just one game," idea is the problem. I don't get this whole, "trust the Suns medical staff" idea. Ask yourself if you've ever heard this statement before:

"Ya know, if I had to do it all over again, I probably would've taken more time coming back. I should've just given it more time to get 100% healthy."

I'm fairly certain you have. Many players have done it, and I've got news for you: every single one of those players were on teams with doctors and trainers and coaches who, according to logic on this board, knew a whole lot more about sports-related injuries than we do. I know, I know - those situations were totally different. Situation A was in the 80s, situation B involved an older player, Situation C involved a white guy, Situation D involved a more serious procedure, Situation E occurred on a rainy day which is a completely different pressure system, Situation F involved the same procedure, but a more serious variant of it... To some people, that means that because the situations are different than this one, they don't apply. To me, however, it tells me one thing: it can happen to anyone in a whole host of different situations, and to deny the possibilities for any reason is not only stupid, but it's potentially dangerous.

So, yeah, tonight was just one game. And the Denver game was just one game. And together, they add up to only 2 games. We knew there were going to be setbacks (except after the Portland game when people were bashed for saying that he wasn't going to be that good from then on...) The swelling is to be expected, and if he's limping out there, it's just cause his muscles have atrophied a bit, or because it's his 5th day of training camp (as long as you ignore the weeks that he has been doing drills, and the months that he has been lifting weights). The medical staff knows best. Pain is normal.

I just wish I hadn't heard it before.