Heroes and Goats: Hard Knocks In Season Episode 8

kerouac9

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The first few minutes of this last episode highlight how over-his-head Kliff Kingsbury really was. From the sideline throughout the San Francisco game, bad things kept happening and Kliff had absolutely zero answers for it. He couldn't figure out the cause, and he couldn't figure out the solution.

Now that the Hard Knocks season is over, it's interesting that a show that purports to go "Behind the Scenes" with the Arizona Cardinals gave very little information of what happens behind the scenes. If you watched this, you probably took away that most of what NFL players do during the week is sit very bored in meetings where they don't talk much about football.

Some of this, surely, is because the Cards don't want their Very Secret and Good Game Plans shown to provide the opposition a(n even greater) competitive advantage. But a lot of it is, I think, that the Cards aren't run very professionally right now. Vance Joseph seems to do a better job with this, but especially the offensive side of the ball seems to be managed like this is a D1 program with restrictions on how long people can work.

Where are the clips of Rondale Moore wearing out the ***** machine after his drop in practice? Where are the clips of Billy Price repping shotgun snaps during extra time?

I get that meetings are boring, and I expect that meetings are even more boring if you're a professional athlete who wants to go play a game, but a professional football program shouldn't be 100% pranks.

Heroes
Keila Watt
- What. A. Cutie. Pie. It's still weird that J.J. Watt and Brian Cushing married sisters, but I'm interested enough in Kelia that I'll probably try and check in on her WPSL(?) games when she comes back.

Vance Joseph - Hear me out: what if Joseph is a better leader and manager than he is a tactician? That's the argument that you make if you're him or his agent. Vance is great in front of the microphone and that defense mostly fought hard all year.

Kliff Kingsbury - You can't really accuse Kliff of lacking self-awareness. He never furnished his Paradise Valley mansion because he didn't want to have to pack up a bunch of stuff when he was let go. LOL.

Goats
Kliff Kingsbury - The offensive portion of the episode revolved around the historic "Joe Montana" play, which is the WR screen/throwback play. First, it's difficult to imagine how many actual plays can be on that playsheet if they're all named like this. Here's Bruce's 2016 playbook. The Day 2 installation play is G Trips Rt 66 Y Stick. Three receivers have sight adjusts. This is what an NFL playbook looks like. A.J. Green still had to fight through two defenders to get to the underthrown ball.

Deandre Hopkins - I don't have enough "K"s on my keyboard for how CHEKKKKKKKKKK'D out Nuk is. He's playing 9-ball by himself and takes Isaiah Simmons to do some ceramics work. I love Nuk, but this was a bad look after being a highlight of this boring season of Hard Knocks.

Derek Watt - How DARE you try and steal some of your big brother's shine by scoring a touchdown on the day of his last game?
 

ASUCHRIS

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Deandre Hopkins - I don't have enough "K"s on my keyboard for how CHEKKKKKKKKKK'D out Nuk is. He's playing 9-ball by himself and takes Isaiah Simmons to do some ceramics work. I love Nuk, but this was a bad look after being a highlight of this boring season of Hard Knocks.
All the talk about an uncertain future weeks ago was pretty much all we needed to know. He's been gone for months.
 

TheCardFan

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Vance Joseph - Hear me out: what if Joseph is a better leader and manager than he is a tactician? That's the argument that you make if you're him or his agent. Vance is great in front of the microphone and that defense mostly fought hard all year.

Maybe but just like an offensive minded head coach, a defensive minded one will want their system. His system sucks plus he will keep many of the same coaches. That is a hard pass for me.
 

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Vance Joseph - Hear me out: what if Joseph is a better leader and manager than he is a tactician? That's the argument that you make if you're him or his agent. Vance is great in front of the microphone and that defense mostly fought hard all year.

Maybe but just like an offensive minded head coach, a defensive minded one will want their system. His system sucks plus he will keep many of the same coaches. That is a hard pass for me.
I've been in the Corporate Sales world for over 35 years & have known far too MANY articulate people that talked a good game, but were feeble when it came to actual production. That is Vance Joseph. He was an AWFUL HC in Denver, and was really never better than an average DC. I might hire him to be in our PR Dept., but that's about it. Great guy, horrible coach.
 

Krangodnzr

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I've been in the Corporate Sales world for over 35 years & have known far too MANY articulate people that talked a good game, but were feeble when it came to actual production. That is Vance Joseph. He was an AWFUL HC in Denver, and was really never better than an average DC. I might hire him to be in our PR Dept., but that's about it. Great guy, horrible coach.
I don't know man...Look at the QBs Vance had in Denver.

An underrated aspect of football is that when your offense is struggling over and over, your defense plays a lot more, gets tired, and then gives up more points.

I don't want Vance to be the head coach, but he didn't exactly take a great first HC job either. The Broncos were a bad football team while he was there and have been mostly bad since. Vance had an amazing collection of QBs to work with: Brock Osweiler, Paxton Lynch, Case Keenum, and Kevin Hogan. Not exactly the right situation.
 

PACardsFan

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I don't know man...Look at the QBs Vance had in Denver.

An underrated aspect of football is that when your offense is struggling over and over, your defense plays a lot more, gets tired, and then gives up more points.

I don't want Vance to be the head coach, but he didn't exactly take a great first HC job either. The Broncos were a bad football team while he was there and have been mostly bad since. Vance had an amazing collection of QBs to work with: Brock Osweiler, Paxton Lynch, Case Keenum, and Kevin Hogan. Not exactly the right situation.
Fangio didn't have any QB's with Denver, and yet, at least his teams played hard and were competitive. They just couldn't win games. With Vance, they sucked on both sides of the ball. Vance Joseph would be an even worse choice than Kliff was. Probably a lot worse. And what would that say about Bidwill or what Bidwill thinks of our fanbase? From day 1, we would have a stadium either half empty or one made up of visiting team fans. Bidwill cannot survive that. Not this time around.
 

Harry

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Despite my well published feelings About Kingsbury, I was glad to see him get that moment of glory with the Montana play. Even more amazing was that Green was the receiver. It was like going back in time and seeing him take the ball away from 2 defenders and fight his way to the TD. In the old days he won many games with that level of skill. If that was his finish, it was a great moment.
 

BritCard

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I agree Vance is a good leader.

He might even make a good head coach if he could put a decent staff together. And that's the problem. He couldn't do it in Denver and I don't see him doing it here. He'd almost certainly keep many of the same people.
 

Chris_Sanders

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Kliff comes into the locker before the game and starts talking trying to fire up the guys and literally no one cares except Will Hernandez. Everyone else is turned around and not listening.

Watt says something and the whole team comes over and huddles up.

It could not have been a larger juxtaposition. Kliff couldn't motivate anyone.
 

PACardsFan

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I agree Vance is a good leader.

He might even make a good head coach if he could put a decent staff together. And that's the problem. He couldn't do it in Denver and I don't see him doing it here. He'd almost certainly keep many of the same people.
If being articulate & talking a big game makes you a good leader, then yes, VJ is a leader. But, that so called leadership meant absolutely nothing when games were on the line & the D needed to make a stop. In 2019, his defenses gave up a touchdown (not a FG) OVER 70% of the time immediately after a Cardinal touchdown (not FG). In 2020, we had a chance to make the playoffs late in the season against a well below average Niners team being led by a 3rd string QB named Beathard & the guy ate Vance's D alive. And yes, the Niners also ran for over 200 yards that day. In the 2nd half of 2021, his D couldn't stop anyone. In the season finale against Seattle, a washed up Wilson ate our lunch on a day when we scored 30 points. His D fell apart on numerous instances this year too when we had a win at hand. If Bidwill hires Vance, he is far dumber than I ever thought possible. I would rather bring back Wilks than have Vance as our HC. And that's saying a lot.
 

outcent13

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Kliff comes into the locker before the game and starts talking trying to fire up the guys and literally no one cares except Will Hernandez. Everyone else is turned around and not listening.

Watt says something and the whole team comes over and huddles up.

It could not have been a larger juxtaposition. Kliff couldn't motivate anyone.
I noticed this from the first episode, no one seemed to respond to anything any of the coaches said to be honest. I feel like Kliff will go be an assistant somewhere and learn from it and end up being a good head coach one day.

The biggest problem with a lot of coaches that don’t have sustained success is they refuse to adapt to their players and are stuck in their system.
 

PACardsFan

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I noticed this from the first episode, no one seemed to respond to anything any of the coaches said to be honest. I feel like Kliff will go be an assistant somewhere and learn from it and end up being a good head coach one day.

The biggest problem with a lot of coaches that don’t have sustained success is they refuse to adapt to their players and are stuck in their system.
All true. Once grown men realize that their coach can't adjust to what their opponents are doing, then they will tune him out.
 

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