Time to Burn It All Down

RON_IN_OC

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The Connor signing is a symptom of the same incredibly stupid thinking that permeated when Keim was around. Spending 10M on an average back is completely indefensible, yet here we are.
Re-signing Conner, in and of itself, wasn't stupid...He earned a chance to come back...The contract that Keim gave him was stupid. It's not like other teams were lining up for him. Keim really just negotiated against himself the last 2 years, with most of these deals.
 

ASUCHRIS

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Re-signing Conner, in and of itself, wasn't stupid...He earned a chance to come back...The contract that Keim gave him was stupid. It's not like other teams were lining up for him. Keim really just negotiated against himself the last 2 years, with most of these deals.
He actually did the right thing in the first place by signing Conner on the cheap! (Then of course made the cardinal error of paying for past performance and all good out the window)
 
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MadCardDisease

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There's no meaningful difference between a James Conner 3-yard run and anyone else's.

This is very true. The difference being between Conner and another back is that Conner has already cashed the Cardinals check.
 

ASUCHRIS

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I cannot get over the state of QB's in the NFC right now, it's just incredible.
 

kerouac9

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This is very true. The difference being between Conner and another back is that Conner has already cashed the Cardinals check.
No, he hasn't — or at least not all of them. He's due a $2 million roster bonus on Sunday.

It's so weird that this is the guy people are choosing to go sunk-cost fallacy on when they're otherwise cold-blooded about dumping as much cap space as possible because reasons.
 

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I don't think people are defending the signing of Conner. The amount given to Connor was ridiculous, but here we are. Why cut him to save $2MM next year when we'd have to spend money on a free agent or a draft choice to replace him? Like others, I say wait until next year when we don't have to take such a cap hit to release him.
 

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Why cut him to save $2MM next year when we'd have to spend money on a free agent or a draft choice to replace him?
Because if the goal is to cut salary and clear the books, then why not do it now? So many have called this a wasted year no matter what, so why not do everything in your power to clean the books moving forward.

It's the same reason that signing Prater again is so galling - WHY?!? He can be replaced at 20% of the cost and the end result will functionally be the same.

I keep hearing about rebuilding and fixing the cap, yet Hump is getting money pushed out and we're re-signing 39 year old kickers.

"The plan" is decidedly murky so far.
 

dreamcastrocks

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I don't think people are defending the signing of Conner. The amount given to Connor was ridiculous, but here we are. Why cut him to save $2MM next year when we'd have to spend money on a free agent or a draft choice to replace him? Like others, I say wait until next year when we don't have to take such a cap hit to release him.
This concept that some of us have isn't hard to grasp. This whole Conner debate about a team that won't be good next year, and a player that won't be here after next year anyway seems tedious.
 

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Because if the goal is to cut salary and clear the books, then why not do it now? So many have called this a wasted year no matter what, so why not do everything in your power to clean the books moving forward.

It's the same reason that signing Prater again is so galling - WHY?!? He can be replaced at 20% of the cost and the end result will functionally be the same.

I keep hearing about rebuilding and fixing the cap, yet Hump is getting money pushed out and we're re-signing 39 year old kickers.

"The plan" is decidedly murky so far.
Because you still have a dead cap hit of 10M.
People here want this cheap owner to eat 10M in dead cap for Conner, 10M for Ertz, 20M dead cap in a D-Hop trade, hell even 100M! in dead cap for Kyler.
We aren't talking about a billionaire owner, we are talking about the cheapest in the league.
 

ASUCHRIS

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Because you still have a dead cap hit of 10M.
People here want this cheap owner to eat 10M in dead cap for Conner, 10M for Ertz, 20M dead cap in a D-Hop trade, hell even 100M! in dead cap for Kyler.
We aren't talking about a billionaire owner, we are talking about the cheapest in the league.
So why accelerate Hump to clear more cap space this year? I know you don't know, but maybe those that have excuses for every FO move can explain?
 

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So why accelerate Hump to clear more cap space this year? I know you don't know, but maybe those that have excuses for every FO move can explain?
That one seems weird. But, but I think that this org thinks that Hump is a long term member of this team based off of that.
 

Dayman

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That one seems weird. But, but I think that this org thinks that Hump is a long term member of this team based off of that.
But they also gave Watt and Hudson post-June 1st designations to push some dead cap to next year. All of these moves are contradictory to the perceived plan for the cap, which I believe is the issue for a lot of people here.
 

ASUCHRIS

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That one seems weird. But, but I think that this org thinks that Hump is a long term member of this team based off of that.
Yeah, it SEEMS the purpose of the restructure would invite a new contract, but haven't seen anything about that either.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Yeah, it SEEMS the purpose of the restructure would invite a new contract, but haven't seen anything about that either.
I think the new contract is down the road.
 
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MadCardDisease

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It's so weird that this is the guy people are choosing to go sunk-cost fallacy on when they're otherwise cold-blooded about dumping as much cap space as possible because reasons.

Yeah I don’t know where the dumping as much cap space as possible thing came from. Not from me that is for sure.
 

kerouac9

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Because you still have a dead cap hit of 10M.
People here want this cheap owner to eat 10M in dead cap for Conner, 10M for Ertz, 20M dead cap in a D-Hop trade, hell even 100M! in dead cap for Kyler.
We aren't talking about a billionaire owner, we are talking about the cheapest in the league.

All of that money is already spent (Except for about $5MM of guaranteed salary for Conner and $4 million in guaranteed salary for Ertz). It actually saves Michael cash to cut or trade these guys because he's basically accounting for losses already taken.

That's the idea around "Burning it down" and "getting right with the cap". You eat losses today and have resources for tomorrow.

I'm so flabbergasted that people don't get this that I believe they're being intentionally obtuse when bringing it up.
Yeah, it SEEMS the purpose of the restructure would invite a new contract, but haven't seen anything about that either.

EDIT: Restructuring a deal makes it more difficult to work out an extension, or at least more challenging against the cap, because you're stuck with a measure of pro-rated bonus.

Restructuring a contract usually means that you're stuck with the guy for at least the next two years.
 
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MadCardDisease

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What is the point of burning it all down, then?

Again you are getting hung up on the “burn it all down” thing. Read my OP to see what I meant.
The Experiment has failed. It's time to pull the plug on Kliff and his offense. Sadly the death of Mike Leach last night was like a bit of foreshadowing of what's to come of Kliff's offense in the NFL. Not just Kliff but also Keim needs to be shown the door. This team needs to to be rebuilt with an experienced NFL Head Coach and a GM that can spot talent.

Sadly I think 2023 is a lost cause. So I would burn it all to the ground starting with a couple of most likely unpopular moves:

- First I would trade Budda Baker for a 1st round pick. Let Budda go play for a team that has a chance to win while he is still able to play at a high level.

- Second I would Trade DHop for a 2nd and 5th round pick. DHop is still a great WR but is 30 years old and on the decline. Might as well get something for him while you still can.

- Third, know that Pugh and Hudson will retire and need to be replaced.

- Fourth let Watt and AJ Green walk via free agency. No need to bring back aging vets during a rebuild.

For the Cardinals to be somewhat competitive in 2023 they should use FA told rebuild the OL. Hopefully the new HC and GM will want to rebuild around a strong running game that is dependant on play action. Additionally they should look to bolster the DL as well in FA and the Draft including adding a young edge rusher. There needs to be a youth movement that targets players who love to play football. All with the goal to be competitive enough to make the playoffs in 2024.

No where do I say the Cards should Tank and dump all salaries
 

kerouac9

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Again you are getting hung up on the “burn it all down” thing. Read my OP to see what I meant.


No where do I say the Cards should Tank and dump all salaries
What is the point of dumping your aging veterans? This is like:

Step 1: Dump all your old expensive players
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Win the Super Bowl

Well, the reason you dump old players is not because you respect them so much and want them to win elsewhere. You dump them because you're trying to recoup the resources you have booked for them.

There's no process that is "Building the lines and getting younger" that starts with losing Zach Allen, keeping Kelvin Beachum, and making it harder/more painful to part with D.J. Humphries down the road.
 
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