Time to Burn It All Down

WiscoBird

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Serious question.....

Can anyone think of a rebuild or tank where the franchise QB was already on the roster?
All of that money is already spent (Except for about $5MM of guaranteed salary for Conner and $4 million in guaranteed salary for Ertz). It actually saves Michael cash to cut or trade these guys because he's basically accounting for losses already taken.

That's the idea around "Burning it down" and "getting right with the cap". You eat losses today and have resources for tomorrow.

I'm so flabbergasted that people don't get this that I believe they're being intentionally obtuse when bringing it up.
It's Stockholm syndrome. Arizona fans have it the worst. It's been almost 20 years of bad ownership for all major sports in the valley. After a while you just want to believe anything you can besides the obvious. I know because I was at one time the absolute worst. This is a poorly run franchise. It's been poorly run for what.......70 years? I will always love the Cardinals because for better or worse, they are the Arizona team.

I will still watch every Sunday and hope Gannon and Monti the absolute best. I just don't lie to myself anymore about what this is. It has helped with the depression of being what I will always be........ A Cardinals fan.
 

JohnnyCakes

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Serious question.....

Can anyone think of a rebuild or tank where the franchise QB was already on the roster?
It's Stockholm syndrome. Arizona fans have it the worst. It's been almost 20 years of bad ownership for all major sports in the valley. After a while you just want to believe anything you can besides the obvious. I know because I was at one time the absolute worst. This is a poorly run franchise. It's been poorly run for what.......70 years? I will always love the Cardinals because for better or worse, they are the Arizona team.

I will still watch every Sunday and hope Gannon and Monti the absolute best. I just don't lie to myself anymore about what this is. It has helped with the depression of being what I will always be........ A Cardinals fan.
We dont know if he can BE the franchise qb yet.
 

JohnnyCakes

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So why accelerate Hump to clear more cap space this year? I know you don't know, but maybe those that have excuses for every FO move can explain?
excuses? Or maybe its just a discussion
 

Stout

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Because you still have a dead cap hit of 10M.
People here want this cheap owner to eat 10M in dead cap for Conner, 10M for Ertz, 20M dead cap in a D-Hop trade, hell even 100M! in dead cap for Kyler.
We aren't talking about a billionaire owner, we are talking about the cheapest in the league.
You understand cap hits aren't always direct cash hits, right? Bidwill's cheapness should have nothing to do with taking cap hits.
 

dreamcastrocks

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You understand cap hits aren't always direct cash hits, right? Bidwill's cheapness should have nothing to do with taking cap hits.
Absolutely. If you can't sign more players due to these cap hits, Bidwill's cheapness absolutely matters.

So you sign a player to a let's say for sake of the argument, a bad contract. So you cut said player to get rid of the bad contract while eating the dead cap hit. These hits can be absorbed when you have lots of cap space. This team does not. Right now they have about 18M, but they owe ~13 mil in rookie contracts next year, so 5. They have 5M to work with as is.

Then on top of all that, you have to sign another player to do the job of the guy you just cut. Asking your owner/org to not only admit mistakes, but have the meddle to own up to it and then sign someone else. Doing that is simple with a player like Chosen Anderson. It becomes much harder when you are actually getting some level of production from some of the bad contracts.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Watson became a headache for them after the tear down began.
Sure, which was why it was unique.
Also Detroit.
Are you referring to Matthew Stafford? I don't think the Lions considered him their franchise QB anymore which is why they parted ways. They seemingly made the right decision too.
 
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MadCardDisease

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What is the point of dumping your aging veterans? This is like:

Step 1: Dump all your old expensive players
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Win the Super Bowl

Well, the reason you dump old players is not because you respect them so much and want them to win elsewhere. You dump them because you're trying to recoup the resources you have booked for them.

There's no process that is "Building the lines and getting younger" that starts with losing Zach Allen, keeping Kelvin Beachum, and making it harder/more painful to part with D.J. Humphries down the road.

Baker is not old. He is in his prime. He is also one of my all time favorite Cardinals players. So yes trading him to let him win somewhere else would be foolish. You are correct that Baker is part of the solution. When I suggested this about Baker back then, I was frustrated with what I knew was coming. I didn't want Baker to have to suffer through a rebuild considering everything he has done for this franchise. I too would prefer if he stayed.

I like Zach Allen. But I don't have any heartburn with letting him walk for the big contract that he got from Vance Joseph. I think Allen is a complementary piece. But I don't think he is a difference maker like a JJ Watt.

Hump has at least 4 more good years left in him and LTs are hard to find. I have no problem with keeping him around.

Beachum signed for cheap and will only be around till whoever they draft is ready to take over.

Although I must say that all of this is moot if Monti fails at evaluating the talent in the draft. He basically has the same scouting staff as Keim. Was Keim the problem or was it the scouting staff? We all know that the final draft day decisions were ultimately Keims. I can tell you that I'm not happy that Terry McDonough is still around. Maybe there wasn't enough time for Monti to bring in his own people? Or were the existing staff pushed onto Monti by Michael?
 

daves

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I don't think people are defending the signing of Conner. The amount given to Connor was ridiculous, but here we are. Why cut him to save $2MM next year when we'd have to spend money on a free agent or a draft choice to replace him? Like others, I say wait until next year when we don't have to take such a cap hit to release him.
Bingo. Sure, cutting him would save $2M on next year's cap... But the Cards would have to sign someone else this year, leaving that much less this year that could be carried over to next year's cap. Sounds like a wash. :shrug:
 

daves

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But they also gave Watt and Hudson post-June 1st designations to push some dead cap to next year. All of these moves are contradictory to the perceived plan for the cap, which I believe is the issue for a lot of people here.
Agreed - THIS is the thing that makes no sense to me. Keeping Conner and Ertz I get.
 

GatorAZ

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They should cut Ertz right now and roll with McBride/Maxx. At least let him rehab at the facility till he’s healthy. Conner is the perfect tanking back for next year then he’ll be released.
 
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