Is Kyler the one?

PACardsFan

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There were only 2 GM jobs open and either he didn't want to wait on an answer for TEN or didn't like what he saw for the future of the Titans or just wanted a change of scenery. Either way, he took the promotion and sometimes you take it regardless.

I think he was given the keys past Kyler (assuming he doesn't royally mess it up) so he could build the team his way since he inherited this mess (Mike looking long term). Yes, he might still like Kyler and of course has to publicly support him, but I am sure he didn't take this because of Kyler. He's young and has a possible long future here which could easily surpass Kyler being in the picture.

Kyler has shown flashes in 4 years. Any young great/elite QB has shown as much or more in the same amount of time. He's still behind his peers. Yes Keim, Mike, and Kliff, but that only goes so far. We can excuse his first year, maybe even his second. But his third? Fourth? Can he ever stay healthy even if he happened to become Mahomes?

He had 1 good year in college prior (forget high school) not much track record to go off of. His physical talent only goes so far, and it hasn't been enough. Questionable he can take it to the next level, but not impossible I don't think.

Because of that the team shouldn't "build around him" and not depend on him playing hero, because he's not, not for an entire season and playoff run anyway. Build solid defense and safe play/RB scheme and then he can go super hero mode in small doses. Basically the 49er way but with style.
No QB is a hero all by themselves. ZERO. Buffalo, Cincinnati, KC have done a tremendous job of building teams that don’t force their QB’s to have to do everything in order for them to win. Mahomes was injured yesterday & KC still played well enough to win. Burrow & Allen were both awful last week & yet their teams helped pull them through to victories. Lawrence threw 4 picks in the 1st half last week, but heir D held the Chargers offense to 1 yard rushing in the second half to give them a chance to come back. I have no idea if MO will be able to build an organization that will consistently win, but if he does, it’ll be because it is strong across the board, not because Murray puts on a Superman cape for us to win. And that’s exactly what he’s had to do the last 4 years. It’s not sustainable & injuries sink the ship every time.
 

PACardsFan

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Last year was more on the organization? Dude couldn't even throw a deep ball to save his life. Stop the freaking propaganda. You lurve Kyler and he can do no wrong, but he did a lot of wrong last year all on his own. The organization was a dumpster fire around him, true, but Kyler brought his own pack of matches to the season.
When an organization around you is a dumpster fire, there is VERY LITTLE a QB can do about it. ANY QB. Murray’s matches did very little to matter, as we saw how bad they were even when he wasn’t playing.
 

TRW

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One of the things that has stood out to me, especially in these playoffs, is the amount of pre-snap motion and misdirection that most of the teams use. There was rarely any of that in Kliff's offense, at least as I recall.
Murray needs to learn how to function under center and throw on the run better. I don't think he will ever become a pocket passer due to his diminutive stature, but he should be able to manipulate in it better.
My observation, for what it's worth, is that Kyler just isn't very "football smart". If it's true he doesn't apply himself to study then that's obvious. He he has been studying and viewing a lot of film then all is lost.
 

gimpy

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Agree with you, TRW, he's not very football smart/smart, or he wouldn't keep doing some of the same things over and over.

I can't imagine that he would refuse to get under center if the plays called for it. I would hope he would not refuse to do it. He might not like it, but I would hope he would do it. After all, I don't know how often we are talking here, to go under center? Certainly not 40 or 50%? Maybe 8 or 10 plays a game?

I'm hoping a new coach would install many/most of the things people on here say we don't do. I think a new system and coach could do wonders for our team, both on offense and defense. At least, I'm hoping.
 

Zalixar

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No QB is a hero all by themselves. ZERO. Buffalo, Cincinnati, KC have done a tremendous job of building teams that don’t force their QB’s to have to do everything in order for them to win. Mahomes was injured yesterday & KC still played well enough to win. Burrow & Allen were both awful last week & yet their teams helped pull them through to victories. Lawrence threw 4 picks in the 1st half last week, but heir D held the Chargers offense to 1 yard rushing in the second half to give them a chance to come back. I have no idea if MO will be able to build an organization that will consistently win, but if he does, it’ll be because it is strong across the board, not because Murray puts on a Superman cape for us to win. And that’s exactly what he’s had to do the last 4 years. It’s not sustainable & injuries sink the ship every time.
Chiefs are on another level than anyone on the league. No comparison.

Except Murray has obvious and more consistent flaws than any of the young good QBs of today. He can't play hero for too long, yes, and with several late season slides and including all of this year, he couldn't even play consistently good at all.

It's concerning he can't even put together a full season of just even average or pretty good. It's feast or famine. That's not concerning for you? We will give him a pass in year 5, and STILL have huge question marks by year 6 and probably beyond.

Burrow has a terrible organization with a loser history and a questionable HC. Herbert same, no playoff win, but he's been consistent in good QB play. Same with Allen, but better HC (defensive minded even btw). He had to really go out of his way to improve, and he did. Tlaw really turned it around, but his attitude and approach is solid and only in year 2. Dak had some mediocre coaching and teams and he has played consistently over many years. Even Stafford was pretty good over his many years in awful Detroit.

Really only Jackson and Mahomes have solid coaches and organizations.

Kyler is in the category with Tua. Oft injured, semi flashy QB who hasn't put it all together but still has potential.

I'm actually a huge Kyler fan and I blame Mike, Keim, and Kliff more and in that order for the woes of the team, but Kyler is not excused from this mess.
 
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JeffGollin

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There are certain things Kyler can get better at and others we’ll just have to live with. Key is to determine which is which…and work on the ones he can get better at. (& tolerate only those which don’t make us lose).
 

PACardsFan

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Chiefs are on another level than anyone on the league. No comparison.

Except Murray has obvious and more consistent flaws than any of the young good QBs of today. He can't play hero, and with several late season slides and including all of this year, he couldn't even play that well at all.

It's concerning he can't even put together a full of season of just even average or pretty good. It's feast or famine. That's not concerning for you? We will give him a pass in year 5, and STILL have huge question marks by year 6 and probably beyond.

Burrow has a terrible organization with a loser history and a questionable HC. Herbert same, no playoff win, but he's been consistent in good QB play. Same with Allen, but better HC (defensive minded even btw). He had to really go out of his way to improve, and he did. Tlaw really turned it around, but his attitude and approach is solid and only in year 2. Dak had some mediocre coaching and teams and he has played consistently over many years. Even Stafford was pretty good over his many years in awful Detroit.

Really only Jackson and Mahomes have solid coaches and organizations.

Kyler is in the category with Tua. Oft injured, semi flashy QB who hasn't put it all together but still has potential.

I'm actually a huge Kyler fan and I blame Mike, Keim, and Kliff more and in that order for the woes of the team, but Kyler is not excused from this mess.
Cincy may have had a poor history, but not while Burrow has been there. They have drafted EXTREMELY well and have begun to build a very good OL. They also have built a decent D and given Joe a GREAT WR group. And to say that Dak has been consistent is not accurate. He’s either at the top or near the top in interceptions thrown. And he has a great defense to counter his many mistakes. Allen has a great organization around him & his numbers have decreased each of the last 2 years. He was awful last week with 2 picks & a fumble, and yet they have a good enough all around team to have overcome that. I love Herbert, but he had moments this year where he struggled also. Murray has been cursed to be on a team that offers nothing compared to what these other QB’s have been given. We’ve had a crap OL from day 1. We’ve had a crap defense from day 1. HOP missed like 12 straight games at one point, and then Brown missed 5-6 games right after Hop returned. Throw in a mess between Rondale & AJ, and a season ending injury to Ertz & you have a $hit sandwich.
 

SoonerLou

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Pac's not far off in his assessment. I just think the off the field stuff plus struggling without Hopkins has really shaped the Kyler narrative. Then throw in the ACL injury. Its tough.

To me its clear Kyler really needs a #1 Wr on the field. Some of the elite guys dont. So he's not one of those guys and thats fine. However, I just wonder how things are if Hopkins doesnt miss 12 straight games.

Problem is Murray keeps getting hurt so there is always something.
 
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Zalixar

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Cincy may have had a poor history, but not while Burrow has been there. They have drafted EXTREMELY well and have begun to build a very good OL. They also have built a decent D and given Joe a GREAT WR group. And to say that Dak has been consistent is not accurate. He’s either at the top or near the top in interceptions thrown. And he has a great defense to counter his many mistakes. Allen has a great organization around him & his numbers have decreased each of the last 2 years. He was awful last week with 2 picks & a fumble, and yet they have a good enough all around team to have overcome that. I love Herbert, but he had moments this year where he struggled also. Murray has been cursed to be on a team that offers nothing compared to what these other QB’s have been given. We’ve had a crap OL from day 1. We’ve had a crap defense from day 1. HOP missed like 12 straight games at one point, and then Brown missed 5-6 games right after Hop returned. Throw in a mess between Rondale & AJ, and a season ending injury to Ertz & you have a $hit sandwich.

Rose colored glasses is a powerful thing.
 

DVontel

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To me its clear Kyler really needs a #1 Wr on the field. Some of the elite guys dont.
Im curious who these guys are cause Burrow has Ja’Marr, Allen has Diggs, Mahomes doesn’t have Tyreek anymore but he has one of the GOAT TEs/receiving options ever, Hurts has AJ, Dak has CeeDee.

No QB is playing great ball without a great WR1. You need those in todays game. It’s scary & sad Kyler struggles so badly without one, but to say elite QBs guys don’t need a #1 WR is a straight up lie. Even Herbert didn’t play up to his caliber this year because his WR1 is no longer a WR1
 

cheesebeef

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Im curious who these guys are cause Burrow has Ja’Marr, Allen has Diggs, Mahomes doesn’t have Tyreek anymore but he has one of the GOAT TEs/receiving options ever, Hurts has AJ, Dak has CeeDee.

No QB is playing great ball without a great WR1. You need those in todays game. It’s scary & sad Kyler struggles so badly without one, but to say elite QBs guys don’t need a #1 WR is a straight up lie. Even Herbert didn’t play up to his caliber this year because his WR1 is no longer a WR1
Burrow played great without Chase for 6 games this season.

And a HOF TE doesn’t make close to the same impact as a #1 WR and Mahommes still played elite.

Saying elite QBs need #1 WRs is a lie.
 

Jetstream Green

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Why do you guys keep acting like Kyler not playing under center much is a Kyler thing when McCoy & the other backups barely did as well?
The shotgun is a Kingsbury preference and he said so himself, and Kyler for the most part just agreed in public that anything Kliff did was cool but never really endorsed anything personally it seems as if not to rock the proverbial boat... though that drill on the Titanic to get to the limited lifeboats was schematically $#%^%@&
 

SoonerLou

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Burrow played great without Chase for 6 games this season.

And a HOF TE doesn’t make close to the same impact as a #1 WR and Mahommes still played elite.

Saying elite QBs need #1 WRs is a lie.
To be fair it was more Kirk Cousins like good passer rating not so great QBR games.

He was only without Chase for 4 games.
99 passer rating

53 Total QBR

Still much better than Kyler without Hopkins.

Im curious who these guys are cause Burrow has Ja’Marr, Allen has Diggs, Mahomes doesn’t have Tyreek anymore but he has one of the GOAT TEs/receiving options ever, Hurts has AJ, Dak has CeeDee.

No QB is playing great ball without a great WR1. You need those in todays game. It’s scary & sad Kyler struggles so badly without one, but to say elite QBs guys don’t need a #1 WR is a straight up lie. Even Herbert didn’t play up to his caliber this year because his WR1 is no longer a WR1
It was more about him being bad without a #1. Or elite QBs not being bad without heir #1s.
 

DVontel

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Burrow played great without Chase for 6 games this season.
Burrow did. I’m not going to discount how great Tee Higgins is as well, but Burrow did play great without Chase for a stretch.

And a HOF TE doesn’t make close to the same impact as a #1 WR
Ah, so for example, Rob Gronkowski didn’t make the same impact as a #1 WR? One of the most dominant specimens & stretches we ever seen from a player didn’t make the same impact or arguably even more with his elite blocking as well? You’re going to lie to yourself & me like that?
Saying elite QBs need #1 WRs is a lie.
If they want to play at an elite level, they do. If they want to reach a SB, they do.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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I just don’t see how Murray getting 180 mill guaranteed is going to motivate him to be a harder worker.

If he wasn’t motivated to work to get that money, it’s hard to fathom him changing after getting it. If anything, he probably feels validated in his approach.
 

Stout

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When an organization around you is a dumpster fire, there is VERY LITTLE a QB can do about it. ANY QB. Murray’s matches did very little to matter, as we saw how bad they were even when he wasn’t playing.
Denial. I specifically mentioned he couldn't throw a deep ball to save his life this past season. How is that possibly on anybody but Kyler Murray? He wasn't super rushed/hurried on every damn deep pass and he couldn't complete any of them. Literally. You can keep trying to absolve him of all blame, or do your "I always say he bears blame" then do everything but blame him dance, but it wears thin.

You're a blind fan of KM. We get it.
 

PACardsFan

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Denial. I specifically mentioned he couldn't throw a deep ball to save his life this past season. How is that possibly on anybody but Kyler Murray? He wasn't super rushed/hurried on every damn deep pass and he couldn't complete any of them. Literally. You can keep trying to absolve him of all blame, or do your "I always say he bears blame" then do everything but blame him dance, but it wears thin.

You're a blind fan of KM. We get it.
Sorry, but we’ll have to agree to disagree. Murray was the BEST at the long ball in almost every season, but last season. You just don’t lose that ability. And it was VERY SELDOM all season that he wasn’t immediately under pressure. On top of that, how many crappy snaps did he have to deal with all year. A lot. I also think that the shoulder injury he had in training camp had some effect on his longer passes this past season. And in years past, his favorite long target was predominantly Kirk. With us getting nothing from Rondale in return, it only added to our long pass woes. I don’t think it was any one thing specifically that hurt Murray in that area, but a combination of everything that went to crap this season.
 

Stout

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Sorry, but we’ll have to agree to disagree. Murray was the BEST at the long ball in almost every season, but last season. You just don’t lose that ability. And it was VERY SELDOM all season that he wasn’t immediately under pressure. On top of that, how many crappy snaps did he have to deal with all year. A lot. I also think that the shoulder injury he had in training camp had some effect on his longer passes this past season. And in years past, his favorite long target was predominantly Kirk. With us getting nothing from Rondale in return, it only added to our long pass woes. I don’t think it was any one thing specifically that hurt Murray in that area, but a combination of everything that went to crap this season.
This is the only thing that stands out as a possibility. Yes, he had pressure and didn't always have a lot of time. Those situations were understandable. He simply didn't appear to actually have the ability to get close on those throws, let alone complete them, and that is troubling. Even if an unknown injury were to blame, well, that doesn't speak well to the injury concerns. Concerns are mounting.
 

PACardsFan

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This is the only thing that stands out as a possibility. Yes, he had pressure and didn't always have a lot of time. Those situations were understandable. He simply didn't appear to actually have the ability to get close on those throws, let alone complete them, and that is troubling. Even if an unknown injury were to blame, well, that doesn't speak well to the injury concerns. Concerns are mounting.
Also had Covid during training camp. Granted, I’m a much older man, but I had to see a lung specialist for a year after having Covid.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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This is the only thing that stands out as a possibility. Yes, he had pressure and didn't always have a lot of time. Those situations were understandable. He simply didn't appear to actually have the ability to get close on those throws, let alone complete them, and that is troubling. Even if an unknown injury were to blame, well, that doesn't speak well to the injury concerns. Concerns are mounting.
I’m in the camp that thinks Kyler will be fine between the ears assuming he gets actual real NFL coaching but also think he may not be durable enough to get through a season.
 

nashman

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Burrow played great without Chase for 6 games this season.

And a HOF TE doesn’t make close to the same impact as a #1 WR and Mahommes still played elite.

Saying elite QBs need #1 WRs is a lie
Oh please Mahomes has multiple receivers as well, and Kelse is basically a giant WR and probably the best TE there is. The QBs winning all have weapons period. And they all have real NFL coaches calling NFL offenses not the garbage we have seen the last few years…
 

nashman

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To be fair it was more Kirk Cousins like good passer rating not so great QBR games.

He was only without Chase for 4 games.
99 passer rating

53 Total QBR

Still much better than Kyler without Hopkins.


It was more about him being bad without a #1. Or elite QBs not being bad without heir #1s.
Their D is heads and shoulders above ours! That surely helps not to be constantly fighting from behind…
 

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