Is Kyler Murray the answer at QB for next year and beyond?

[kerouac9]

What is the rebuilding plan?

If it's a three year plan (starting in 2023) - then we should be a playoff team in 2025.

2023 - tear it all down and create the culture Monti/JG want (check)
2024 - Fill roster with more draft picks (building the roster/depth), drafting a couple of impact players, developing 2023 draft class, signing some solid FA's (not top level dudes).
2025 - It all comes together. More draft picks, more development, very strong roster/depth, and adding a few impact players in FA.

If this is the plan, how does Kyler (who is preforming in the middle third of all QB's but getting paid the 6th most) help this team?
Will his trade value be more now (with so many QB needy teams) or after 1-2 more years of middling performance? What if he gets injured? We are hosed (see Russell Wilson decision - who is actually playing way better than Kyler).

If the plan is to compete for the playoffs in year 2 (2024) - I find it very hard to believe.
We have WAY too many holes, no impact players, no depth, a mediocre QB, and we are in a very tough division.
IF Kyler gets us to 7-10 or 8-9 in 2024. We are back to purgatory.

The only reason it makes sense to keep Kyler is if Monti/JG think he can become Kyler of early 2021 again.

LOL. Tear it all down seems good. This was also a team that went down 21-0 to the Chicago Bears and jettisoned their season-opening cornerback. What is the culture we've successfully instilled?

"Draft a couple of impact players" isn't a plan. It's hope. We're probably further behind than we think because our impact players right now are a 29 year-old running back and a 28 year-old safety.

It think we're probably stuck in a "process" where we wait for a franchise player or two to reveal themselves. You can still have success doing that -- the Lions are taking advantage of a bad year in the division to host a playoff game -- but you're not getting anywhere.

In that process, Kyler presents a steady hand at QB, potentially allowing you to develop other players. People asked early this season why we didn't just start Clayton Tune for the first half of the year. The reason why is that you can't evaluate and develop the players on your offense with a complete zero under center. We saw how far from competent Clayton Tune was when he got his shot.

I'm not concerned about Kyler's contract. It's overvalued, but it's not likely to prevent us from signing a desired free agent or re-signing one of our players. What's critical is we don't restructure any part of Kyler's contract to move value into later years.

 

[QuebecCard]

In your long post you didn’t answer one question. What benefit does having a $40m QB have over someone on a rookie deal during a rebuild? You are limiting resources you could use to not just buy FA but extend the draft picks you end up hitting on. Keeping Murray is useless at his number. The FO gave themselves an out this year they should take it.

Resources?

Try to keep in mind that there is 'real' cost in parting ways with KM.

 

[QuebecCard]

What is the rebuilding plan?

If it's a three year plan (starting in 2023) - then we should be a playoff team in 2025.

2023 - tear it all down and create the culture Monti/JG want (check)
2024 - Fill roster with more draft picks (building the roster/depth), drafting a couple of impact players, developing 2023 draft class, signing some solid FA's (not top level dudes).
2025 - It all comes together. More draft picks, more development, very strong roster/depth, and adding a few impact players in FA.

If this is the plan, how does Kyler (who is preforming in the middle third of all QB's but getting paid the 6th most) help this team?
Will his trade value be more now (with so many QB needy teams) or after 1-2 more years of middling performance? What if he gets injured? We are hosed (see Russell Wilson decision - who is actually playing way better than Kyler).

If the plan is to compete for the playoffs in year 2 (2024) - I find it very hard to believe.
We have WAY too many holes, no impact players, no depth, a mediocre QB, and we are in a very tough division.
IF Kyler gets us to 7-10 or 8-9 in 2024. We are back to purgatory.

The only reason it makes sense to keep Kyler is if Monti/JG think he can become Kyler of early 2021 again.

No we're not. It's the second year of 'your' three year plan.

 

[Chopper0080]

What’s the point of being on a rookie contract if we’re not going to be competitive for the next couple of years? That’s just a complete waste of it.

Thing is, we have A LOT of needs, so you’re basically asking the FO to buy your team through FA which never works. The best benefit of a rookie contract is to add good depth through your already established team, not buy your starters through FA.

Which makes the most sense to keep Kyler. Acquiring blue chip talent like a MHJ, building through the draft with those premium picks, etc, to make it a more comfortable transition for the next QB after Kyler to come in.


I’ve seen you make a post about “wanting the next Herbert”, what exactly has Herbert done….? No, I’m not saying it’s his fault. What I’m saying that Herbert also got drafted to a team with dire talent/depth & a lot of names who have been overrated, Chargers failed trying to buy through the FA & now they’re currently about to go through a rebuild as well. Unless Monti somehow has some generational drafting, we’ll follow the exact Chargers path & people will stupidly question “is Maye good enough to get us over the hump?” like idiots have done with Herbert & the Chargers.

The core difference for me is I would rather be where the Chargers than where we are. I am ok with having the QB and trying to find the GM and HC who can support him. But that again is a personal preference.

 

[DVontel]

The core difference for me is I would rather be where the Chargers than where we are. I am ok with having the QB and trying to find the GM and HC who can support him. But that again is a personal preference.

I really just don’t get why when positive results have shown the opposite today. I feel like that is stone-age thinking.

 

[kerouac9]

I really just don’t get why when positive results have shown the opposite today. I feel like that is stone-age thinking.

Because it's easier and cheaper to find a competent coach and GM than it is to find an exceptional talent at QB.

 

[DVontel]

Because it's easier and cheaper to find a competent coach and GM than it is to find an exceptional talent at QB.

I believe this is something that has been ingrained into our minds growing up when in actuality I don’t think this is necessarily 100% true.

What are you defining as “exceptional”? Top 10-15 QBs in the league?

 

[Chopper0080]

LOL. Tear it all down seems good. This was also a team that went down 21-0 to the Chicago Bears and jettisoned their season-opening cornerback. What is the culture we've successfully instilled?

"Draft a couple of impact players" isn't a plan. It's hope. We're probably further behind than we think because our impact players right now are a 29 year-old running back and a 28 year-old safety.

It think we're probably stuck in a "process" where we wait for a franchise player or two to reveal themselves. You can still have success doing that -- the Lions are taking advantage of a bad year in the division to host a playoff game -- but you're not getting anywhere.

In that process, Kyler presents a steady hand at QB, potentially allowing you to develop other players. People asked early this season why we didn't just start Clayton Tune for the first half of the year. The reason why is that you can't evaluate and develop the players on your offense with a complete zero under center. We saw how far from competent Clayton Tune was when he got his shot.

I'm not concerned about Kyler's contract. It's overvalued, but it's not likely to prevent us from signing a desired free agent or re-signing one of our players. What's critical is we don't restructure any part of Kyler's contract to move value into later years.

Yeah...I have no idea if Monti or Gannon are good or even average. Early signs aren't good if you are what your record says you are.

I have taken a more selfish approach in that I don't like watching mid/bad QB play. I have seen too much of it as an AZ fan. So the idea of more Kyler Murray is like nails on a chalkboard for me.

 

[Yuma]

Because it's easier and cheaper to find a competent coach and GM than it is to find an exceptional talent at QB.

IDK about that. Cards have been searching for decades. Chargers can't seem to get the right combo either. I don't think we give good GMs and Coaches ENOUGH credit. Look at how many coaches get criticized. How many fans are mad at their GMs. I almost think it's easier to find or recognize a good QB, getting one is hard, but we all watch and have an idea of who the good QBs are.

 

[kerouac9]

I believe this is something that has been ingrained into our minds growing up when in actuality I don’t think this is necessarily 100% true.

What are you defining as “exceptional”? Top 10-15 QBs in the league?

I'd say upper third -- top 12 QB.

I said this in the past with Kliff that an elite coach (top 5) is more valuable than an elite QB because an elite coach can do his job very well for 20 years and an elite QB can only do that for 8-10. But I'd rather take an elite QB for eight years than incompetent coaching.

Would I rather have Sean McVay than Justin Herbert? Yeah.

Would I rather have Justin Herbert than Matt Eberflus? No doubt.

 

[Chopper0080]

I believe this is something that has been ingrained into our minds growing up when in actuality I don’t think this is necessarily 100% true.

What are you defining as “exceptional”? Top 10-15 QBs in the league?

If I knew Monti and Gannon were Chiefs, Eagles, 49ers, Ravens level competent, I would be more comfortable with your preferred approach.

Keim had a lot of premium draft picks that he squandered away. Fitzgerald had a lot of wasted years as the Cardinals navigated incompetent QBs. these two things aren't imagined.

 

[Chopper0080]

I remember the 2004 NFL draft differently than most. I remember the Cardinals passing on Philip Rivers when their QB room was Josh McCown and Shaun King. I remember Eli refusing to go to the Chargers because they were so incompetent. I also remember Rivers making the Chargers relevant for 14 years.

EDIT: I get it...it was almost 20 years ago, but this upcoming draft makes me look back.

 

[DVontel]

If I knew Monti and Gannon were Chiefs, Eagles, 49ers, Ravens level competent, I would be more comfortable with your preferred approach.

This is what is driving me crazy lol just because we’ve been incompetent for many years with previous regimes means we should continue to be incompetent just because that’s just the way of our lives instead of actually wanting to reach the standard of those franchises? That is what I’m gathering from this post.

 

[DVontel]

I have taken a more selfish approach

At least you admitted it. This is what I believe most of this board feels the same way, it was just you were the first one to admit it.

 

[Chopper0080]

This is what is driving me crazy lol just because we’ve been incompetent for many years with previous regimes means we should continue to be incompetent just because that’s just the way of our lives instead of actually wanting to reach the standard of those franchises? That is what I’m gathering from this post.

What you should gather is not really that.

This is my train of thought.

If we take Maye, and Gannon and Monti suck, we still have Maye.

If we take Maye, and Gannon and Monti are good, we will have both Maye and good Monti and Gannon.

If we take Maye, and Gannon and Monti are good, but Maye is bad, we still need a QB but still have Gannon and Monti.

If we take Maye, and Gannon and Monti are bad, and Maye is bad, we don't have anything.

If we pass on Maye, and Gannon and Monti are good, we still need a QB.

If we pass on Maye, and Gannon and Monti suck, we don't have anything.

But I understand some of this is predicated on the belief that Drake Maye will be a top 16 NFL QB.

 

[netsnjkidd]

If I knew Monti and Gannon were Chiefs, Eagles, 49ers, Ravens level competent, I would be more comfortable with your preferred approach.

Keim had a lot of premium draft picks that he squandered away. Fitzgerald had a lot of wasted years as the Cardinals navigated incompetent QBs. these two things aren't imagined.

But how do we know they cant get to that level. Both Monti and JG are finishing their rookie years. They did some good and bad, but shouldnt that be expected out of a rookie year.

 

[Chopper0080]

But how do we know they cant get to that level. Both Monti and JG are finishing their rookie years. They did some good and bad, but shouldnt that be expected out of a rookie year.

See my post directly above yours for my thinking.

 

[Chopper0080]

Basically, from my perspective, passing on Maye guarantees us to still need a QB in two or three years regardless of how good Monti and Gannon are.

 

[DVontel]

If we pass on Maye, and Gannon and Monti are good, we still need a QB.

This right here tells me that we would be rather close to serious contention. That’s why I don’t care about the complaints of trading up. When you trade up, you expect your team to already have the pieces in place while making it a much smoother transition for your rookie QB rather than going into the field of talentless Tommys.

 

[netsnjkidd]

What you should gather is not really that.

This is my train of thought.

If we take Maye, and Gannon and Monti suck, we still have Maye.

If we take Maye, and Gannon and Monti are good, we will have both Maye and good Monti and Gannon.

If we take Maye, and Gannon and Monti are good, but Maye is bad, we still need a QB but still have Gannon and Monti.

If we take Maye, and Gannon and Monti are bad, and Maye is bad, we don't have anything.

If we pass on Maye, and Gannon and Monti are good, we still need a QB.

If we pass on Maye, and Gannon and Monti suck, we don't have anything.

But I understand some of this is predicated on the belief that Drake Maye will be a top 16 NFL QB.

okay i see were you are coming from now.

 

[Chopper0080]

This right here tells me that we would be rather close to serious contention. That’s why I don’t care about the complaints of trading up. When you trade up, you expect your team to already have the pieces in place while making it a much smoother transition for your rookie QB rather than going into the field of talentless Tommys.

Here is where I disagree with your thinking. If Gannon and Monti are good, Maye won't be surrounded with a group of talentless Tommy's. We will just not have MHJ.

 

[kerouac9]

But how do we know they cant get to that level. Both Monti and JG are finishing their rookie years. They did some good and bad, but shouldnt that be expected out of a rookie year.

No. They should be held to the high standard of very good NFL front office executives and head coaches.

What was the good, particularly Monti? Where did he meet the standards set for the best 10 front offices in the NFL?

I'm sorry if I have more grace for a 21 year-old kid learning to be a professional at the highest level for the worst team than two guys who have angled for their jobs for years and years.

 

[netsnjkidd]

No. They should be held to the high standard of very good NFL front office executives and head coaches.

What was the good, particularly Monti? Where did he meet the standards set for the best 10 front offices in the NFL?

I'm sorry if I have more grace for a 21 year-old kid learning to be a professional at the highest level for the worst team than two guys who have angled for their jobs for years and years.

George Lynch and Kyle Shannon were 6-10 and 4-12 their first 2yrs.They should of been fired right?

Everybody had the cardinals most likely going 0-17. We got 3 wins with practice squad players. Monti has some plan for this offseason the reason he punted last season. Lets see what he does.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's called prove it. It's called Purdy has a better supporting cast than 99.7% of QBs in NFL history. Few players have had Pro Bowlers at every skill position and an All Pro LT.

I've seen Watson produce better than Purdy with much less in the past.

Lol. How much more can Purdy “prove it?” Your arguments are getting worse. You’re literally supporting my argument.

And that Watson is as dead and buried as the 12 win murray. You’re giving Watson more credit for what he did three years ago (a team that was a loser, btw) than you’re giving Purdy who has been nails his entire (brief) career.

This is an argument if opinion. So there’s no right or wrong answer. But your arguments in support of “game manager” are awful.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Watson was 5-1 before getting hurt.

Just sayin'

Did you watch those games? I did as I had amari cooper and Jerome died on my fantasy team. Watched every game. Watson was mediocre to dreadful.