Playing for next year. Picking Caleb and trading Kyler.

cardsunsfan

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I don't see any way where the Cardinals aren't hoping to have the worst record in the league. We still have the Texans pick who should also be bad. Kyler although I think could still be great, I always feel like he'll be a major question mark due to his past work ethic and leadership problems. Because of this he'll never be one of those consistent "franchise qb's" due to his small frame and how he plays the game his health we'll most likely be a constant issue as well. I still believe many teams may look at Kyler as a potential future top 10 qb, especially one's who don't have a QB, will be more up on him and most likely their belief that we didn't utilize him well because we are the Cardinals. With Salaries going up every year I wonder if any QB desperate team would trade for him and eat some of his salary allowing us to clear up cap space? The worse choice in Cardinals history may have been giving Kyler all of that guaranteed money. I don't see us being great for awhile with his cap hit for the next few years.
 

Chopper0080

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I don't see any way where the Cardinals aren't hoping to have the worst record in the league. We still have the Texans pick who should also be bad. Kyler although I think could still be great, I always feel like he'll be a major question mark due to his past work ethic and leadership problems. Because of this he'll never be one of those consistent "franchise qb's" due to his small frame and how he plays the game his health we'll most likely be a constant issue as well. I still believe many teams may look at Kyler as a potential future top 10 qb, especially one's who don't have a QB, will be more up on him and most likely their belief that we didn't utilize him well because we are the Cardinals. With Salaries going up every year I wonder if any QB desperate team would trade for him and eat some of his salary allowing us to clear up cap space? The worse choice in Cardinals history may have been giving Kyler all of that guaranteed money. I don't see us being great for awhile with his cap hit for the next few years.
It is going to be really difficult for the Cardinals to commit to Kyler over a top rookie QB next year if they are in the position to take one. Eating the accelerated cap hit one was the one area that prohibited the Cardinals from doing so. With their off-season moves, lack of spending, and their ability to push money forward, that has become less of a hurdle.
 

Dr. Jones

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I see only 8 or 9 QB's in the league who are as good or better than Kyler personally. It's hard to not want to see what he can turn in to.

No Brainers:
Mahomes
Allen
Burrow
Herbert
Lamar
Rodgers

Probably:
Lawrence?
Hurts?

Maybe:
Dak?

That's really all I got. Everyone else..... you can squint and see positives but none are what Kyler has been and can be. For the first 8 to 10 weeks of 2021 he was up there with Burrow and Herbert. I'm continuing to want to be patient here and see what he can do with a new OC and NFL level play caller. The throws he makes to the boundaries, and outside the numbers continue to be (IMO) some of the absolute best in the entire NFL. And his long passes (until last year) were also very special.

Give him the season to get right, and see how we look come the back half of 2023. Then maybe even give him 2024 if needed. It's really the only options we have at this point with his contract.
 

RON_IN_OC

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I don't really understand all the Caleb Williams hype, personally... He's had two years in Lincoln Riley's ultra quarterback friendly offense and still hasn't done what Kyler Murray did in his one full year of starting in that offense. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Cardinals would be so much better off for Kyler Murray to be the good to Great quarterback he was drafted to be, so that any high draft picks the next couple of years can be used to build around him, rather than replacing him and starting all over.

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juza76

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With Kyler u know what u have
If he is surrounded with talented players , especially in the offensive line he can be a great qb, instead rookies qbs are all question mark
He must play really bad when he is back to even think about replacing him
The only concern i have about him, is availability, he has never played a full season
 
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Krangodnzr

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I don't really understand all the Caleb Williams hype, personally... He's had two years in Lincoln Riley's ultra quarterback friendly offense and still hasn't done what Kyler Murray did in his one full year of starting in that offense. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Cardinals would be so much better off for Kyler Murray to be the good to Great quarterback he was drafted to be, so that any high draft picks the next couple of years can be used to build around him, rather than replacing him and starting all over.

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I like Drake Maye more. Williams passing numbers were a smidge better, but Maye produced way better rushing numbers. Maye was also one of the most pressured QBs in college football, so his numbers are more impressive.
 
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cardsunsfan

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I really hope Kyler works, but in some ways I think he has regressed. I just see up and down games, drama between him and players, and also injuries in his future. Also with his unique skill set it might have taken a little time for other teams to plan for him. We've seen his limited sample size in the playoffs when they planned for him and it wasn't pretty. I know we should be thankful for what we do have in hum but I don't see him as a 10 year + solid franchise qb. I know there are very few of those around. I agree Caleb would be a roll of the dice though. If we were to get the first pick in the draft and we don't want a QB I would hope we could trade the pick for crazy capital, like the other teams first and second this year, first and second next year and first and second the third year.. I know that sounds crazy but with the hype Caleb gets I would hope we could get a haul...
 

football karma

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It is going to be really difficult for the Cardinals to commit to Kyler over a top rookie QB next year if they are in the position to take one. Eating the accelerated cap hit one was the one area that prohibited the Cardinals from doing so.
so -- per OTC, and to your point:

trading Kyler next offseason saves $5mm in cap space (this feels unlikely given his contract)

cutting Kyler with a post June 1 designation saves $3.5mm in cap space.

each moves puts ~$45mm-ish in dead money into the year

it feels like Monti has set up 2023 as an evaluation year for Kyler. I suspect it may be more what he does off the field than on
 

Jakester

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This is exactly what is going to happen. You don't throw away a season, accumulate draft capital, and focus on clearing as much cap space as possible (for the Kyler cap hit they will take next year when he is traded or released) for anything other than a QB. Harrison Jr is a stud but you don't tank for a wideout. As long as they have the number 1 pick (their own pick or the Texans) Caleb Williams will be the starting QB next year for the Cards and hopefully he will finally be the franchise changing young QB they have been trying to get forever basically to no avail.

Aside from that would you rather pay a 22 year old Caleb Williams like 8-10 million a year for four years or a 28 year old Kyler like 50 mil a year. It's a no brainer from a roster building stand point which to choose. This new regime is not going to hitch their long term hopes on Kyler if they have a younger, cheaper, less injury prone and more promising QB to take next year.
 

NWMike

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I’d agree the cap hit makes trading Kyler next year unlikely. If we end up with 2 picks in the top 5 I think the Cards would look to trade down again and stockpile more picks for 2024 to continue laying a foundation to compete in 2025.
 

RON_IN_OC

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This is exactly what is going to happen. You don't throw away a season, accumulate draft capital, and focus on clearing as much cap space as possible (for the Kyler cap hit they will take next year when he is traded or released) for anything other than a QB. Harrison Jr is a stud but you don't tank for a wideout. As long as they have the number 1 pick (their own pick or the Texans) Caleb Williams will be the starting QB next year for the Cards and hopefully he will finally be the franchise changing young QB they have been trying to get forever basically to no avail.

Aside from that would you rather pay a 22 year old Caleb Williams like 8-10 million a year for four years or a 28 year old Kyler like 50 mil a year. It's a no brainer from a roster building stand point which to choose. This new regime is not going to hitch their long term hopes on Kyler if they have a younger, cheaper, less injury prone and more promising QB to take next year.
You may only pay $8-9 million, but the cap charge will be $50-60 million combined, which will still hamstring the team. That's a dumb goal, IMO, if that's what they are aiming for. Also, do you think Murray is 100% on board with his apparent transformation, if he thinks for one minute his job is in jeopardy? I sure don't.
 

kerouac9

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I like Drake Maye more. Williams passing numbers were a smidge better, but Maye produced way better rushing numbers. Maye was also one of the most pressured QBs in college football, so his numbers are more impressive.
You gotta respect a guy who loses the last four games of the season. Really instill that #birdcity culture.
 

overseascardfan

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I don't think ARZ will be big players in FA next year for 3 reasons:
1. Not a lot of big names next year, Trevon Diggs, Nick Bosa, Chris Jones, Brian Burns, Tee Higgins and Jeffrey Simmons are the headliners but highly doubtful any of their current teams give them the chance to reach the market.

2. Mikey B has really entrenched himself on agent's naughty list. Whether it be from lack of facility perks to ridiculous contract demands to him just looking like an ***clown, players may avoid ARZ like the plague.

3. I think ARZ's plan is to build entirely through draft, thus the accumulation of draft picks and ridding themselves of Murray's toxic personality and contract may be extremely appealing if they have a shot at Caleb Williams. While that sounds like a decent plan, Monti passing on a defensive cornerstone piece in Anderson and not addressing the huge hole at C are not ringing endorsements that he will nail the draft next year.
 

Outerlimits

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You may only pay $8-9 million, but the cap charge will be $50-60 million combined, which will still hamstring the team. That's a dumb goal, IMO, if that's what they are aiming for. Also, do you think Murray is 100% on board with his apparent transformation, if he thinks for one minute his job is in jeopardy? I sure don't.

I'm encouraged by his attitude this off-season so far but obviously real test will be when he returns to what is very likely to be a very bad team. If the offense only looks marginally better than when McCoy or our 5th round rookie were playing,, it would be difficult not to go in a different direction with the high draft pick.

If his attitude remains positive and is showing good leadership ability despite what is likely to still be a tough 2nd half of season, then I think the odds are very good he returns. If he reverts to acting disinterested or starts yelling at the new coaches like he did Kliff, he will be gone.
 

Russ Smith

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I like Drake Maye more. Williams passing numbers were a smidge better, but Maye produced way better rushing numbers. Maye was also one of the most pressured QBs in college football, so his numbers are more impressive.

I think Williams has a better arm but they both tend to throw off the back foot and sling it. Caleb holds the ball too long he has a tendency to wait himself into pressure, and he does that turn his back on the defense thing that Kyler does. Maye is better in the pocket but far worse outside the pocket not nearly as good throwing on the run. Caleb is a great runner very powerful lower body breaks or evades a ton of tackles, but in the NFL that's almost a negative you worry a guy like that will take too many hits and get hurt.

It would not surprise me at all if Maye goes first he's 3 inches taller than Caleb, can make all the throws and was really good last year. if he puts up a similar year just being taller and less dependent on being outside the pocket might put him ahead.
 

Russ Smith

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You gotta respect a guy who loses the last four games of the season. Really instill that #birdcity culture.

Not just they lost but he didn't really play well in any of those games. 4 TD 4 int, 3 TD 0 picks against Oregon but he wasn't really that good in that game, very inaccurate they would have won easily if he'd been able to get the ball to open guys.

But Caleb has played quite a bit more so it's not a surprise he's more polished than Maye.

He has a chance to be good.
 

Russ Smith

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We certainly have a chance to have a 24 draft similar to what Houston had this year, but hopefully even better.

I think the ideal is Kyler plays well enough you don't trade him and then you have all the leverage with the top pick for someone who wants Williams or Maye, get Harrison Jr with the 2nd pick, get more help with that trade package for the first pick and improve the team in a ton of places.

If we have to pick a QB it likely means less in return because it would mean Kyler didn't play well enough and has less trade value than the #1 overall pick.

I'd really like to end up with Harrison Jr in the draft and the other first round pick ideally would be either another OT, or an elite edge. I just don't see an edge that elite right now I think Verse is too small and not sure who else there is. I really hope such a player emerges during the year.
 

SissyBoyFloyd

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I'd really like to end up with Harrison Jr in the draft and the other first round pick ideally would be either another OT, or an elite edge. I just don't see an edge that elite right now I think Verse is too small and not sure who else there is. I really hope such a player emerges during the year.

Harrison is a must, Kyler would demand him I would think. After that, I like the trade back to where you can get a stud DT in later R1. Then the best C in R2. Now you have additional 2s and 3s to upgrade at CB, OG, S, TE, or OT, plus the whole rest of the draft to use to move up a bit if necessary or just add to sp teams or whatever. If that trade of #1 brings all it can, we could also be set up again in 2025 for another big haul.
 

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