Interesting story about Fitz and Hump

[BritCard]

I’m curious how many organized sports you’ve played where you had a teammate that you said nary a word to for an entire year, despite being on the same side of the ball. You’re dying on this hill is baffling. The straws you’re grasping at are thinning considerably.

I've never played a team sport where with 53 players. Where position rooms spend much of their time in their own bubble or that had a player considering so unprepared he didn't dress for a single game and rode a bench all year. So I wouldn't know.

Not as baffling as your need to take a throwaway comment by Hump and turn it into a multi page rant about the greatest player this team as ever had neglecting his perceived leadership duties.

 

[BritCard]

This argument is strange. Silence has NEVER been a valid leadership technique.

And for an entire year?

I'd say **** that guy. He's not helping me improve. Period.

Whether it is or isn't is beside the point. The point is that Fitz had absolutely no responsibility to "lead" Hump anywhere other than by example. He wasn't a team captain. He wasn't the oldest player on the offense as he was recently.

This idea that it was somehow Fitz's job to "gee up" Hump is nonsense. Carson Palmer was offensive captain and the oldest player on offense. How much "leadership" time to you think Palmer spent with a rookie linemen that wasn't dressing?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I've never played a team sport where with 53 players. Where position rooms spend much of their time in their own bubble or that had a player considering so unprepared he didn't dress for a single game and rode a bench all year. So I wouldn't know.

Not as baffling as your need to take a throwaway comment by Hump and turn it into a multi page rant about the greatest player this team as ever had neglecting his perceived leadership duties.

Your need to continue putting words in mouth in every post is quite juvenile.

I have never said he had “leadership duties.” I said this scenario is evidence of a lack of leadership. And it is. It doesn’t state Fitz hasn’t acted in leadership roles before or as a good leader in other instances. It is commentary on fitz’s actions (really lack thereof) in taking a leadership role with a teammate who needed leadership.

I have also clearly stated that leadership by example is not leadership. I wonder how many successful companies have only leaders that lead solely by example? I’m guessing ZERO because that’s not really leadership.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Whether it is or isn't is beside the point. The point is that Fitz had absolutely no responsibility to "lead" Hump anywhere other than by example. He wasn't a team captain. He wasn't the oldest player on the offense as he was recently.

This idea that it was somehow Fitz's job to "gee up" Hump is nonsense. Carson Palmer was offensive captain and the oldest player on offense. How much "leadership" time to you think Palmer spent with a rookie linemen that wasn't dressing?

This is another fallacy: title begets leadership.

 

[BritCard]

Your need to continue putting words in mouth in every post is quite juvenile.

I have never said he had “leadership duties.” I said this scenario is evidence of a lack of leadership. And it is. It doesn’t state Fitz hasn’t acted in leadership roles before or as a good leader in other instances. It is commentary on fitz’s actions (really lack thereof) in taking a leadership role with a teammate who needed leadership.

I have also clearly stated that leadership by example is not leadership. I wonder how many successful companies have only leaders that lead solely by example? I’m guessing ZERO because that’s not really leadership.

I know you have stated that leadership by example is not leadership. Sadly, that's just your opinion and flies in the face of conventional wisdom.

So what you are saying is that Fitz had no responsibility to "lead" more than any other player but it's bad that he didn't, even though we have no context or any idea what was or was not happening with other players? And even though Hump himself says it worked and changed his attitude.

“Larry didn’t talk to me my whole rookie year,” Humphries explained. “He said he was mad at me. He was like, ‘I was mad at you. You were a first rounder. We’re first rounders. We’ve got a responsibility when we come here and you let me down.'”

Humphries was taken aback.

“He told me to my face like that in my second year,” he said.

Fitzgerald let Humphries know there were expectations for him.

“‘We’re depending on you now,'” Humphries recalled Fitz telling him. “‘You let me down last year. I was mad at you.'”

It changed Humphries’ perspective. In his mind, he realized, “they’re really depending on me right here.” All he could say to Fitzgerald was, “OK, my bad, Larry.”

Maybe Larry just knew what he was doing all along and that a word to him at the wrong moment would be wasted? We don't know. Maybe it was actually the best possible leadership Larry could have shown, considering effective leadership isn't spouting platitudes but achieving tangible results.

 

[Finito]

lol. This shouldn't be shocking to people. I wouldn't ever call Fitz a mentor and a lot of NFL dudes aren't. Their idea of leadership is being an example and if you don't pick that up, they don't have much time for you.

a million ways to lead but I wouldn’t call Fitz a leader or Mentor. I mean good lord how many receivers have we had and guys here go on and on about how they can learn from Fitz. Yeah he’s not that guy

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I know you have stated that leadership by example is not leadership. Sadly, that's just your opinion and flies in the face of conventional wisdom.

So what you are saying is that Fitz had no responsibility to "lead" more than any other player but it's bad that he didn't, even though we have no context or any idea what was or was not happening with other players? And even though Hump himself says it worked and changed his attitude.

“Larry didn’t talk to me my whole rookie year,” Humphries explained. “He said he was mad at me. He was like, ‘I was mad at you. You were a first rounder. We’re first rounders. We’ve got a responsibility when we come here and you let me down.'”

Humphries was taken aback.

“He told me to my face like that in my second year,” he said.

Fitzgerald let Humphries know there were expectations for him.

“‘We’re depending on you now,'” Humphries recalled Fitz telling him. “‘You let me down last year. I was mad at you.'”

It changed Humphries’ perspective. In his mind, he realized, “they’re really depending on me right here.” All he could say to Fitzgerald was, “OK, my bad, Larry.”

Maybe Larry just knew what he was doing all along and that a word to him at the wrong moment would be wasted? We don't know. Maybe it was actually the best possible leadership Larry could have shown, considering effective leadership isn't spouting platitudes but achieving tangible results.

You can’t help yourself but to put words in other people’s mouths, can you? It’s the lowest form of arguing bc it proves you cannot argue based on the merits of your position.

people have argued for ages that Fitz is a leader. It was my contention that ignoring a young underperforming player was the opposite of leadership. Not that he should be leading, not that he had a leadership role. But only that such inaction was evidence against the larry is a leader position.

and your argument that Larry was really crazy like a fox doesn’t really carry much weight. My thoughts:

1. leaders don’t ignore problems because they’re “mad.”
2. Was ignoring him for a full season really necessary? Maybe ignoring him for a shorter period of time and then having the same conversation would’ve had an earlier impact which I’m pretty sure everyone would agree would’ve benefitted the team. Instead of just being mad at him and not talking to him.

man’s platitudes? You mean like the BS “lead by example?” Lol. I’ve not used a single platitude in this conversation.

We get it, you have a different (what many of us would label ineffectual) understanding of leadership.

 

[BritCard]

You can’t help yourself but to put words in other people’s mouths, can you? It’s the lowest form of arguing bc it proves you cannot argue based on the merits of your position.

people have argued for ages that Fitz is a leader. It was my contention that ignoring a young underperforming player was the opposite of leadership. Not that he should be leading, not that he had a leadership role. But only that such inaction was evidence against the larry is a leader position.

and your argument that Larry was really crazy like a fox doesn’t really carry much weight. My thoughts:

1. leaders don’t ignore problems because they’re “mad.”
2. Was ignoring him for a full season really necessary? Maybe ignoring him for a shorter period of time and then having the same conversation would’ve had an earlier impact which I’m pretty sure everyone would agree would’ve benefitted the team. Instead of just being mad at him and not talking to him.

man’s platitudes? You mean like the BS “lead by example?” Lol. I’ve not used a single platitude in this conversation.

We get it, you have a different (what many of us would label ineffectual) understanding of leadership.

I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm pointing out you are wrong. I know exactly what your trying to say, your trying to say "Hey you guys that always said Fitz was a leader, well you are wrong because look, here's an example of him not leading". Your just plain wrong.

1. Telling him he was mad doesn't mean he was mad. Sometimes leaders say things that aren't true to try to achieve the desired result.
2. Did it work? Yes. Did it do any harm? No. Hump was already deep into Arians bad books early in the season. There was no getting out of the dog house and in a starting job with Massie still there.

Back in a minute. I'm just going to pop into my time machine and go tell Mahatma Gandhi, MLK and Mother Teresa that leading by example isn't real.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm pointing out you are wrong. I know exactly what your trying to say, your trying to say "Hey you guys that always said Fitz was a leader, well you are wrong because look, here's an example of him not leading". Your just plain wrong.

1. Telling him he was mad doesn't mean he was mad. Sometimes leaders say things that aren't true to try to achieve the desired result.
2. Did it work? Yes. Did it do any harm? No. Hump was already deep into Arians bad books early in the season. There was no getting out of the dog house and in a starting job with Massie still there.

Back in a minute. I'm just going to pop into my time machine and go tell Mahatma Gandhi, MLK and Mother Teresa that leading by example isn't real.

Um, are conflating what Gandhi, MLK, and mother Teresa did with an nfl wide receiver doing what he’s paid to do in terms of leadership? You are so far out on the cliff you don’t even realize you’ve stepped off and hurtling downwards.

and again you’re putting words in my mouth. I am NOT saying “you guys are wrong” I am saying this is evidence to the contrary. I have now said that multiple times. I don’t know if you are having reading comprehension issues or are being purposefully obtuse bc it better fits your narrative. Either way, stop putting words in my mouth, it makes you a liar.

 

[cardpa]

I know you have stated that leadership by example is not leadership. Sadly, that's just your opinion and flies in the face of conventional wisdom.

So what you are saying is that Fitz had no responsibility to "lead" more than any other player but it's bad that he didn't, even though we have no context or any idea what was or was not happening with other players? And even though Hump himself says it worked and changed his attitude.

“Larry didn’t talk to me my whole rookie year,” Humphries explained. “He said he was mad at me. He was like, ‘I was mad at you. You were a first rounder. We’re first rounders. We’ve got a responsibility when we come here and you let me down.'”

Humphries was taken aback.

“He told me to my face like that in my second year,” he said.

Fitzgerald let Humphries know there were expectations for him.

“‘We’re depending on you now,'” Humphries recalled Fitz telling him. “‘You let me down last year. I was mad at you.'”

It changed Humphries’ perspective. In his mind, he realized, “they’re really depending on me right here.” All he could say to Fitzgerald was, “OK, my bad, Larry.”

Maybe Larry just knew what he was doing all along and that a word to him at the wrong moment would be wasted? We don't know. Maybe it was actually the best possible leadership Larry could have shown, considering effective leadership isn't spouting platitudes but achieving tangible results.

Sorry but statements like that say a total lack of leadership. You tell a person your mad at them because they were a first rounder and you expected them to understand they have responsibilities and expectations yet you never say a word to them for an entire year? Really? I find that to be completely lame. If that is Fitz's idea of leadership it would be better if he had no leadership i.e. captain status at all.

 

[Jetstream Green]

The irony of the situation at present is that Hump probably has been more of a leader towards his OL than Fitz towards the WRs

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

A) leadership does come in many forms. None of them passive.

Well that is a style of leadership that is called laissez faire, but is universally considered to be a poor leadership style.

 

[BritCard]

Um, are conflating what Gandhi, MLK, and mother Teresa did with an nfl wide receiver doing what he’s paid to do in terms of leadership? You are so far out on the cliff you don’t even realize you’ve stepped off and hurtling downwards.

and again you’re putting words in my mouth. I am NOT saying “you guys are wrong” I am saying this is evidence to the contrary. I have now said that multiple times. I don’t know if you are having reading comprehension issues or are being purposefully obtuse bc it better fits your narrative. Either way, stop putting words in my mouth, it makes you a liar.

I'm putting words in your mouth when you say "conflating what Gandhi, MLK, and mother Teresa did with an nfl wide receiver doing what he’s paid to do in terms of leadership?"

Where did I compare Fitz? What I said was that your "lEaDiNg bY eXaMpLe iSn'T rEaL" is nonsense.

 

[schutd]

I love the offseason.

 

[Stout]

For me, the story here is how grossly unprofessional and unprepared Hump was. He EVENTUALLY proved out to be a good LT, but he was a HORRIBLE first-round pick. We didn't get the good play on the cheap, IMO.

 

[Krangodnzr]

For me, the story here is how grossly unprofessional and unprepared Hump was. He EVENTUALLY proved out to be a good LT, but he was a HORRIBLE first-round pick. We didn't get the good play on the cheap, IMO.

But they are getting good play cheap NOW.

Injuries on his first contract were the biggest concern.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

For me, the story here is how grossly unprofessional and unprepared Hump was. He EVENTUALLY proved out to be a good LT, but he was a HORRIBLE first-round pick. We didn't get the good play on the cheap, IMO.

Agreed. So even though he ended up becoming a good player he’s still sort of a semi-bust for keims track record. How keim and staff didn’t know that hump was coming in with that attitude in a day and age where you have multiple meetings with prospects is beyond me.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But they are getting good play cheap NOW.

Injuries on his first contract were the biggest concern.

Except for a full year where he didn’t contribute bc of what stout pointed out. Did not even dress a single game.

 

[DVontel]

But they are getting good play cheap NOW.

Injuries on his first contract were the biggest concern.

Yea, if Hump continues to progress & hopefully earn All-Pro accolades while still being with us, it would turn out to be a great pick. Especially considering he was drafted in the back-half of the first round.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Agreed. So even though he ended up becoming a good player he’s still sort of a semi-bust for keims track record. How keim and staff didn’t know that hump was coming in with that attitude in a day and age where you have multiple meetings with prospects is beyond me.

Because drafting is still an inexact science.

You think Humphries wasn't coached up before he spoke with teams?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Because drafting is still an inexact science.

You think Humphries wasn't coached up before he spoke with teams?

I would assume so. But isn’t that why we pay keim the big bucks? To be able to ferret out reality? I mean I see so many people want to give keim a pass for failing to do his job.

is it a tough job? Yeah. Are there a ton of variables you have to consider? Yeah. Does it require investigation? Yeah. A good gm still has a missteps but avoids many of them.

ah forget it. If you want to say it’s okay that keim didn’t read this guy right at the time of the draft so be it.

 

[Shane]

I would assume so. But isn’t that why we pay keim the big bucks? To be able to ferret out reality? I mean I see so many people want to give keim a pass for failing to do his job.

is it a tough job? Yeah. Are there a ton of variables you have to consider? Yeah. Does it require investigation? Yeah. A good gm still has a missteps but avoids many of them.

ah forget it. If you want to say it’s okay that keim didn’t read this guy right at the time of the draft so be it.

First season is moot he was injured. He has turned into a good player and has a second contract. No way in hell the pick can be considered a “bust” disappointing to start? Sure. But bust? No.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm putting words in your mouth when you say "conflating what Gandhi, MLK, and mother Teresa did with an nfl wide receiver doing what he’s paid to do in terms of leadership?"

Where did I compare Fitz? What I said was that your "lEaDiNg bY eXaMpLe iSn'T rEaL" is nonsense.

If you think mother Teresa, MLK, and Gandhi “lead by example” I am going to invite you to do some research on those individuals bc you apparently don’t know anything about them.

mother Teresa founded the Missionary of Charities for goodness sake. She spoke out on controversial topics. She didn’t just do her job and serves as an example.

MLK organized marches, spoke at rallies, literally gave his life, for a cause. He wasn’t just a really great minister who served as a great example.

gandhi organized massive amounts of people in protest. He took leadership of the Indian National Congress. He didn’t just sit in nonviolent protests as an example.

These are maybe the very worst examples of “lead by example” you could have come up and clearly shows you don’t even have a rudimentary understanding of what “lead by example” means.

 

[BritCard]

If you think mother Teresa, MLK, and Gandhi “lead by example” I am going to invite you to do some research on those individuals bc you apparently don’t know anything about them.

mother Teresa founded the Missionary of Charities for goodness sake. She spoke out on controversial topics. She didn’t just do her job and serves as an example.

MLK organized marches, spoke at rallies, literally gave his life, for a cause. He wasn’t just a really great minister who served as a great example.

gandhi organized massive amounts of people in protest. He took leadership of the Indian National Congress. He didn’t just sit in nonviolent protests as an example.

These are maybe the very worst examples of “lead by example” you could have come up and clearly shows you don’t even have a rudimentary understanding of what “lead by example” means.

Leading by example doesn't mean you ONLY lead by example. But millions of people, in fact sometimes entire countries, were inspired by the examples those people set. Leading by example is the most far reaching, and most common form of leadership. Gandhi lead a whole country to freedom leading by example which inspired millions of people he never even met.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Leading by example doesn't mean you ONLY lead by example. But millions of people, in fact sometimes entire countries, were inspired by the examples those people set. Leading by example is the most far reaching, and most common form of leadership. Gandhi lead a whole country to freedom leading by example which inspired millions of people he never even met.

Forget it. You obviously don’t get it.