Interesting story about Fitz and Hump

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Fitz and Humphrires probably didn't have any contact with each other. Different rooms, units, coaches.

How is Fitz going to tell Humphries how to do his job? He never did it. He's going to walk out of his meetings, down the hall, kick in the door of the OL room and push the coaches working with DJ out of the way and say "son, here's how you kick slide and set your hips"

All he can do to be a mentor is show up, do his own job, give top effort and show respect to coaches, refs, and opponents along with his own team. That's mentorship. DJ has a swarm of coaches around him for technique.

Really, Fitz was a Hall of Famer already, and here was a rookie who wasn't giving premiere effort. It's DJ's job to go to Fitz at that point, not the other way around.

I obviously don’t know you, or your life’s experiences, but your statements come off as someone who has never really occupied a leadership role. I cannot a recall a single leadership role I’ve had in my life where I didn’t lead in an area outside of my direct responsibility. In fact, that’s a primary character trait I look for in potential leaders at work, in charities, and in sports - can they provide leadership in areas outside their area of expertise? Because leadership has almost zero to do with the mechanics of a position. That’s “coaching,” not “leadership.”

I think you need to look up the definition of “mentor.” You’re confusing it with “example.”

 

[Shane]

I obviously don’t know you, or your life’s experiences, but your statements come off as someone who has never really occupied a leadership role. I cannot a recall a single leadership role I’ve had in my life where I didn’t lead in an area outside of my direct responsibility. In fact, that’s a primary character trait I look for in potential leaders at work, in charities, and in sports - can they provide leadership in areas outside their area of expertise? Because leadership has almost zero to do with the mechanics of a position. That’s “coaching,” not “leadership.”

I think you need to look up the definition of “mentor.” You’re confusing it with “example.”

Bravo Ouchie

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The most important consideration of who the team leaders are is who the PLAYERS elect as team captains. Fitz was elected a team captain in 2020 and for many, many, many seasons before that.

What he may or may not have said to a rookie tackle in his rookie season doesn't change who the team leaders are and were IMO.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...ght-team-captains-2020-nfl-season/5759191002/

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Depends on the players and circumstances. Sometimes it’s a popularity contest. Sometimes it’s an honor. Sometimes it’s automatically given by default to the best player as an expectation. Sometimes it’s earned. The truth is none of us have much insight into what the captains do, or don’t do, with their leadership of the team. But when we get these types of stories we gain a sliver of insight. And this one casts a shadow on fitz’s “leadership.”

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Bravo Ouchie

If you can’t tell this is a pet peeve of mine. I’ve found the majority of people can neither identify, nor understand, leadership. I’ve seen so many unqualified individuals thrust into leadership positions only to inevitably fail - and usually bring down others with them, either purposefully or accidentally. And I don’t blame them. Most people want leadership positions, but not the attendant responsibilities. Combine that with the fact that it seems more and more in today’s day and age leadership seems to conflated with being the loudest.

 

[BritCard]

If you can’t tell this is a pet peeve of mine. I’ve found the majority of people can neither identify, nor understand, leadership. I’ve seen so many unqualified individuals thrust into leadership positions only to inevitably fail - and usually bring down others with them, either purposefully or accidentally. And I don’t blame them. Most people want leadership positions, but not the attendant responsibilities. Combine that with the fact that it seems more and more in today’s day and age leadership seems to conflated with being the loudest.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

I think you are confusing leadership with "Management" in the private sector. Paid leadership in other words. Where it's your job as a team leader, office manager, site manager etc to treat everyone the same and bring along those lagging behind.

Hump himself says he was a jackass. It's not Fitz's job to donate his time to people that come into work in the wrong physical shape or with the wrong mental attitude.

I've been on teams before when we have brought in new people at the same level as me and where I have been there many years and know how everything works. Have had guys come in humble and eager and ready to learn and I've given them my time to help them out and show them the ropes. And I've had guys come in who have been complete douche bags who think they are gods gift who I have no time for at all.

Fitz was the star of this franchise. The guy everyone looks to for approval. By treating Hump like he did (while working with rookie David Johnson at the same time) he was saying "Your got to get yourself right and act like a pro if you want my approval".

 

[cardpa]

If you can’t tell this is a pet peeve of mine. I’ve found the majority of people can neither identify, nor understand, leadership. I’ve seen so many unqualified individuals thrust into leadership positions only to inevitably fail - and usually bring down others with them, either purposefully or accidentally. And I don’t blame them. Most people want leadership positions, but not the attendant responsibilities. Combine that with the fact that it seems more and more in today’s day and age leadership seems to conflated with being the loudest.

So true Ouchie. As a coach, I never let my teams vote for their captain(s). I always selected captains because I wanted players who actually wanted to lead. I also wanted to develop leaders so there were instances where a player wasn't sure if they wanted to be a captain however if I felt they had those qualities, I would guide them and teach them how to be leaders. The reward for me was when a parent would come up to me and thank me for naming their child a captain because it built confidence in them and they are now a better student and more confident person because of it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

I think you are confusing leadership with "Management" in the private sector. Paid leadership in other words. Where it's your job as a team leader, office manager, site manager etc to treat everyone the same and bring along those lagging behind.

Hump himself says he was a jackass. It's not Fitz's job to donate his time to people that come into work in the wrong physical shape or with the wrong mental attitude.

I've been on teams before when we have brought in new people at the same level as me and where I have been there many years and know how everything works. Have had guys come in humble and eager and ready to learn and I've given them my time to help them out and show them the ropes. And I've had guys come in who have been complete douche bags who think they are gods gift who I have no time for at all.

Fitz was the star of this franchise. The guy everyone looks to for approval. By treating Hump like he did (while working with rookie David Johnson at the same time) he was saying "Your got to get yourself right and act like a pro if you want my approval".

This is the response of someone who hasn’t ever stepped into leadership. No, I’m no talking about management. That is managing people, not leading them. Leadership requires proactivity. By its very nature it is not a passive endeavor. And a leader’s responsibility is to lead his people. Some will require more attention and others less. Some require the carrot and others the stick. But ignoring a problem is the antithesis of leadership.

BTW, if wherever you’ve worked has a rule that management treat everyone the same that’s probably an organization that’s never going to maximize its potential. Sorry that’s what you’ve been subjected to.

 

[Shane]

This is the response of someone who hasn’t ever stepped into leadership. No, I’m no talking about management. That is managing people, not leading them. Leadership requires proactivity. By its very nature it is not a passive endeavor. And a leader’s responsibility is to lead his people. Some will require more attention and others less. Some require the carrot and others the stick. But ignoring a problem is the antithesis of leadership.

BTW, if wherever you’ve worked has a rule that management treat everyone the same that’s probably an organization that’s never going to maximize its potential. Sorry that’s what you’ve been subjected to.

Yep supervision is not leadership in anyway shape or form.

 

[BritCard]

This is the response of someone who hasn’t ever stepped into leadership. No, I’m no talking about management. That is managing people, not leading them. Leadership requires proactivity. By its very nature it is not a passive endeavor. And a leader’s responsibility is to lead his people. Some will require more attention and others less. Some require the carrot and others the stick. But ignoring a problem is the antithesis of leadership.

BTW, if wherever you’ve worked has a rule that management treat everyone the same that’s probably an organization that’s never going to maximize its potential. Sorry that’s what you’ve been subjected to.

This is bull crap man.

You have used a lot of words in this thread to say "Fitz isn't a leader" based on nothing more that Humps article while ignoring the many, many stories from players over the years about the role Fitz has played in making them a better player and better man.

Leadership is a two way street. You need someone willing to be lead. By ignoring Hump while helping others he was making Hump aware he had to change his attitude,and arguably it worked.

And you have the nerve to say I'm inferring things from things not in evidence.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So true Ouchie. As a coach, I never let my teams vote for their captain(s). I always selected captains because I wanted players who actually wanted to lead. I also wanted to develop leaders so there were instances where a player wasn't sure if they wanted to be a captain however if I felt they had those qualities, I would guide them and teach them how to be leaders. The reward for me was when a parent would come up to me and thank me for naming their child a captain because it built confidence in them and they are now a better student and more confident person because of it.

Absolutely! I’ve been on teams where they had multiple captains. Some elected and some named by the coaches. Not surprisingly the ones named by the coach took on the leadership mantle whereas the one voted in was a popular jackass who let the team down. The one that was both voted in and named by the coach was pretty good too but had a lot to learn about leadership (hint, he’s typing right now).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This is bull crap man.

You have used a lot of words in this thread to say "Fitz isn't a leader" based on nothing more that Humps article while ignoring the many, many stories from players over the years about the role Fitz has played in making them a better player and better man.

Leadership is a two way street. You need someone willing to be lead. By ignoring Hump while helping others he was making Hump aware he had to change his attitude,and arguably it worked.

And you have the nerve to say I'm inferring things from things not in evidence.

No, that’s you turning my words. What I AM saying is that ignoring a problem child is (actual) evidence of a lack of leadership. I don’t know enough about fitz’s other actions to determine if he was a good leader or not. But I do know that (a) just being a great example of doing what you’re paid to do is not leadership in and of itself; and (b) ignoring a problem team member is actually evidence of bad leadership.

whether fitz’s ignoring hump “worked” or not is also something we don’t know. Obviously the coaches were riding him hard (hence his nickname). I’d reckon that had a lot more to do with his turnaround (you know, guys actually proactively doing something) than someone ignoring him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This is bull crap man.

You have used a lot of words in this thread to say "Fitz isn't a leader" based on nothing more that Humps article while ignoring the many, many stories from players over the years about the role Fitz has played in making them a better player and better man.

Leadership is a two way street. You need someone willing to be lead. By ignoring Hump while helping others he was making Hump aware he had to change his attitude,and arguably it worked.

And you have the nerve to say I'm inferring things from things not in evidence.

Btw, leadership isn’t a “two way street.” That’s a statement only a failed leader uses. Are there those that cannot be lead? Sure. But a person’s leadership is solely determined by their actions.

in fact, the more I think of it the more absolutely ludicrous your statement becomes.

 

[BritCard]

No, that’s you turning my words. What I AM saying is that ignoring a problem child is (actual) evidence of a lack of leadership. I don’t know enough about fitz’s other actions to determine if he was a good leader or not. But I do know that (a) just being a great example of doing what you’re paid to do is not leadership in and of itself; and (b) ignoring a problem team member is actually evidence of bad leadership.

whether fitz’s ignoring hump “worked” or not is also something we don’t know. Obviously the coaches were riding him hard (hence his nickname). I’d reckon that had a lot more to do with his turnaround (you know, guys actually proactively doing something) than someone ignoring him.

Leadership comes in many forms. Not only in the very particular methods you seem to proscribe.

Whether or not withholding approval is or isn't an effective tool I just don't prescribe to the idea that it is somehow Fitz's role to mentor / lead every player that comes through the offense regardless of their attitude or preparedness on some individual basis outside of being a prime example of professionalism and work rate. Fitz must have worked with several hundred players over the years, it would be a full time job.

Fitz lead everyone by showing them how it was done. That is leadership despite your protestations, "Leading by example" is literally the most used leadership quote in the world. He put his arm around and became friendly with those that earned his respect by trying to do things the right way.

And all of this without mentioning he was coming off a 2 TD, 700 yard season himself and had his own concerns.

 

[BritCard]

Btw, leadership isn’t a “two way street.” That’s a statement only a failed leader uses. Are there those that cannot be lead? Sure. But a person’s leadership is solely determined by their actions.

in fact, the more I think of it the more absolutely ludicrous your statement becomes.

Leadership isn't a two way street....but there are some that cannot be lead.

So it is a two way street, considering the meaning of the phrase is "a situation or relationship involving mutual or reciprocal action or obligation."

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Leadership is not a two way street. High performance isn't leadership.

I am measured by the senior executives by my performance. I am measured as a junior executive on a bi annual basis based on feedback from my employees and engagement is a KPI.

Communication flowing up from my employees and down from senior leaders. That is how an organization should operate.

By the very nature of his captaincy, Fitz should be a funnel for that communication.

 

[BritCard]

Leadership is not a two way street. High performance isn't leadership.

I am measured by the senior executives by my performance. I am measured as a junior executive on a bi annual basis based on feedback from my employees and engagement is a KPI.

Communication flowing up from my employees and down from senior leaders. That is how an organization should operate.

By the very nature of his captaincy, Fitz should be a funnel for that communication.

Fitz wasn't a team captain in 2015. It was Palmer and Veldheer.

 

[Shane]

Fitz wasn't a team captain in 2015. It was Palmer and Veldheer.

Being a team captain mean jack squat. Thats a popularity contest and nothing more.

 

[BritCard]

Being a team captain mean jack squat. Thats a popularity contest and nothing more.

Can you guys still to one narrative? It's getting tough to argue several contradicting ones.

"Fitz should be leading as a captain"

"He wasn't a captain"

"Yeah well it's dumb anyway"

(Which really just proves there are many ways to show leadership. There isn't just one way)

 

[BritCard]

All this also ignores the fact that that O line room contained Veldheer, Iupati and Larsen. All senior vets and leaders in the locker room.

Maybe Hump was already getting all the "leadership" he needed from the players he actually spent all his time with and Fitz didn't feel the need to interfere.

 

[Shane]

All this also ignores the fact that that O line room contained Veldheer, Iupati and Larsen. All senior vets and leaders in the locker room.

Maybe Hump was already getting all the "leadership" he needed from the players he actually spent all his time with and Fitz didn't feel the need to interfere.

Fitz sure showed his "professionalism" completely ignoring a fellow teammate for an entire year. Thats worth of Capetian status for sure. lol

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Fitz wasn't a team captain in 2015. It was Palmer and Veldheer.

My mistake. Then I would agree that he didn't have any requirement to speak to him as a peer.

Maybe he grew into his captaincy after that

 

[BritCard]

Fitz sure showed his "professionalism" completely ignoring a fellow teammate for an entire year. Thats worth of Capetian status for sure. lol

Did he ignore him? Or did he just have no reason to talk to a rookie linemen that never dressed for a single game?

All these theories propose this was some form of conscious decision on Fitz's part when I'd suggest it's more likely they just had no reason to converse. In fact, I'd be surprised if there wasn't other players that never spoke with him that year and Fitz was just highlighted because he's Fitz.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Leadership comes in many forms. Not only in the very particular methods you seem to proscribe.

Whether or not withholding approval is or isn't an effective tool I just don't prescribe to the idea that it is somehow Fitz's role to mentor / lead every player that comes through the offense regardless of their attitude or preparedness on some individual basis outside of being a prime example of professionalism and work rate. Fitz must have worked with several hundred players over the years, it would be a full time job.

Fitz lead everyone by showing them how it was done. That is leadership despite your protestations, "Leading by example" is literally the most used leadership quote in the world. He put his arm around and became friendly with those that earned his respect by trying to do things the right way.

And all of this without mentioning he was coming off a 2 TD, 700 yard season himself and had his own concerns.

A) leadership does come in many forms. None of them passive. I’ve not even made one statement about my “proscribed” form of leadership. But ignoring a player over whom you’re supposed to be leading falls outside the general definition.

B) it wasn’t “withholding approval,” it was completely not talking to him. Try not to change the facts.

C) literally no one has said it is fitz’s “role to mentor” anyone. Rather we are saying in this instance he did not mentor DJ. And if he’s depended on to be a leader to the entire team, that’s a lack of leadership in this instance. If the cardinals don’t look to him for that kind of leadership, so be it. But let’s not then claim he’s a leader.

D) “Leading by example” is an overused platitude that’s NEVER used by actual leaders when they are speaking to other leaders bc they already do it. If you’re not doing your job (which again is what leading by example really is) you have no place being considered for leadership. By your reasoning everyone that does their job well is therefore a leader. No. That’s just wrong.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Did he ignore him? Or did he just have no reason to talk to a rookie linemen that never dressed for a single game?

All these theories propose this was some form of conscious decision on Fitz's part when I'd suggest it's more likely they just had no reason to converse. In fact, I'd be surprised if there wasn't other players that never spoke with him that year and Fitz was just highlighted because he's Fitz.

I’m curious how many organized sports you’ve played where you had a teammate that you said nary a word to for an entire year, despite being on the same side of the ball. You’re dying on this hill is baffling. The straws you’re grasping at are thinning considerably.

 

[HomerPimpson]

This argument is strange. Silence has NEVER been a valid leadership technique.

And for an entire year?

I'd say fudge that guy. He's not helping me improve. Period.