I cant see how anyone can say that Josh Allen is a top QB prospect

[Solar7]

I cannot see how anyone after being a Cardinal fan can simply look at this draft and say the second round is an option to draft or probably worst another third round flyer. You just don't go 'maybe' with the QB position. Sure you can get lucky and anyone drafted past the first round is a team thinking they got lucky too and thought they could afford a flyer, we cannot think this way. I do not want to see another vet castoff who is being released for a reason. Sure we where fortunate with Warner and Palmer but they still resulted in one Super Bowl, a conference championship appearance and no Lombardi Trophy. If you think those results are sufficient, then you must not want to root for a winner with that take what you can get attitude. First round, trade to get in position to draft your guy regardless of what it might require, and then draft him

For me to buy into this philosophy I need some kind of evidence that this isn't a historically bad decision to make. In the past ten years, trading up for a QB has pretty much only worked out for the Eagles and Rams with Wentz and Goff (assuming they keep it up), and the Ravens with Flacco, which was a trade at the end of the first, not a reach into the top 5. Unless you count Eli Manning, which I wouldn't really, it's a similar mess all the way through 2000. Not a single player besides Flacco who has played his entire career for the team that moved up to take him that is still in the league.

We only have two examples right now, and they're two seasons in. That's not evidence enough for me to say we should sell the farm.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Allen is Logan Thomas part two. Cards need to stay far far away.

If we draft a qb I'd like either Jackson or Rudolph. Those the only two that might be there when we draft.

I can see Rosen but Jackson has accuracy issues too.

Plus, I think anyone is crazy to want a rookie over Cousins. Cousins completes 66% of his passes with 93 TD to 50 INT for a 94.9 career rating and is a top 5-8 QB in the league. You HOPE a rookie will become what Cousins already is. Sure he'll cost money but so what. Palmer costs a lot of money too. It's a no brainer if you can get Cousins rather than draft one. Plus, he's only 29 and getting into QB prime age range. I won't be surprised to see Washington tag him again with the year he's putting up with that crap WR corps.

 

[AZCrazy]

Kirk Cousins is a top 5-8 QB in the NFL?? Ummm......

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

I think Rosen & Lamar will be good from the jump.

Baker will be up & down his rookie year, but he’ll hit his stride after that.

Just not fully sold on Darnold. If Jackson was having the season Darnold is having, he would get talked about as a 6th rounder.

Josh Allen shouldn’t even be drafted.

Darnold has better passing stats than Jackson in almost every category, and he plays in a pro style offense. Darnold should still go back to USC for one more year...he needs to work on his field vision and cut down on turnovers, then he'd be a sure fire #1 pick.

 

[Solar7]

I can see Rosen but Jackson has accuracy issues too.

Plus, I think anyone is crazy to want a rookie over Cousins. Cousins completes 66% of his passes with 93 TD to 50 INT for a 94.9 career rating and is a top 5-8 QB in the league. You HOPE a rookie will become what Cousins already is. Sure he'll cost money but so what. Palmer costs a lot of money too. It's a no brainer if you can get Cousins rather than draft one. Plus, he's only 29 and getting into QB prime age range. I won't be surprised to see Washington tag him again with the year he's putting up with that crap WR corps.

I think the question around Cousins is whether or not we're ready to compete with him on the roster. I don't have that answer in my back pocket for you, but I'd rather have Washington's pass catchers overall than ours at the moment (including Reed & Davis here in comparison to RSJ & Gresham). But is our OL/WR corps/Defense ready to step up to the cause for what should be a five year window or so? Or is it better for us to draft a QB and accept we're going to take some growing pains until we've reloaded 2-3 years down the line?

 

[Solar7]

Kirk Cousins is a top 5-8 QB in the NFL?? Ummm......

He's literally in the top 5-8 in every category that counts this season. Name 9 QBs you'd rather have?

 

[jmt]

I can't believe anyone would want the Washington wide receivers. Reed is always hurt, Davis is old and in the way and neither Doctson or Pryor can catch.

 

[DVontel]

He's literally in the top 5-8 in every category that counts this season. Name 9 QBs you'd rather have?

Rodgers
Brady
Brees
Wilson
Ryan
Cam
Rivers
Stafford
Luck
Watson
Arguably Ben & Mariota, too.

 

[Solar7]

I can't believe anyone would want the Washington wide receivers. Reed is always hurt, Davis is old and in the way and neither Doctson or Pryor can catch.

I was assuming health here, since we're talking about 2018. Even still, with Fitz heads and shoulders above Crowder, their top 8 receivers have been far deeper this year.

 

[Solar7]

Rodgers
Brady
Brees
Wilson
Ryan
Cam
Rivers
Stafford
Luck
Watson
Arguably Ben & Mariota, too.

You'd rather have two guys who aren't even playing, and whose careers are in doubt, than Cousins? I'd have bought this if you'd said Goff/Wentz... maybe. But probably not.

Those two wouldn't make my list above Cousins, nor would Rivers/Ryan/possiby Cam. Definitely not Ben or Mariota. And if we're talking for the next 3-5 years, my list changes dramatically and puts Cousins in the top 5.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I think the question around Cousins is whether or not we're ready to compete with him on the roster. I don't have that answer in my back pocket for you, but I'd rather have Washington's pass catchers overall than ours at the moment (including Reed & Davis here in comparison to RSJ & Gresham). But is our OL/WR corps/Defense ready to step up to the cause for what should be a five year window or so? Or is it better for us to draft a QB and accept we're going to take some growing pains until we've reloaded 2-3 years down the line?

Rebuilding is usually much longer than a 2-3 year process. Look at how long Jax was a bottom feeder. Same with Cleveland, Rams, Jets, SF, Miami, etc. I am all for trying to win next year. By signing Cousins, the Cards cold use draft capital to fill OL/WR and other needs. Of course, I'm one a the few good with Palmer next year but would rather have Cousins in the fold long term.

But let's say sign Cousins and a WR then use draft picks on a Denzel Ward and Billy Price(OSU homer alert ) You've upgraded 4 positions, long term, with 2 draft picks.

 

[Solar7]

Rebuilding is usually much longer than a 2-3 year process. Look at how long Jax was a bottom feeder. Same with Cleveland, Rams, Jets, SF, Miami, etc. I am all for trying to win next year. By signing Cousins, the Cards cold use draft capital to fill OL/WR and other needs. Of course, I'm one a the few good with Palmer next year but would rather have Cousins in the fold long term.

But let's say sign Cousins and a WR then use draft picks on a Denzel Ward and Billy Price(OSU homer alert ) You've upgraded 4 positions, long term, with 2 draft picks.

I used the term "reloaded" for a reason, haha. I don't think our team is bereft of talent. Jacksonville had basically zero impact players. We have at least two players that are in the conversation for top 3 at their position, along with one of the all time greats at WR. But we need to work on some spots to be ready. Cousins and a WR would make the current Jacksonville team a Super Bowl contender. He'd make us a division contender.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Rodgers
Brady
Brees
Wilson
Ryan
Cam
Rivers
Stafford
Luck
Watson
Arguably Ben & Mariota, too.

A couple problems here. First, none of those QB are on the market and second, we're not just talking about next year. Cousins is having a better year than about all of them except Brady and Brees. Rivers, Brady, Brees all may 2 years left.

Cam and his 83 passer rating, really? I guess that's better than Mariotta's 80.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

A

I used the term "reloaded" for a reason, haha. I don't think our team is bereft of talent. Jacksonville had basically zero impact players. We have at least two players that are in the conversation for top 3 at their position, along with one of the all time greats at WR. But we need to work on some spots to be ready. Cousins and a WR would make the current Jacksonville team a Super Bowl contender. He'd make us a division contender.

Agree. He'd be a perfect fit in Jax. I think if he hits the market it will be between the Cards, Denver, and Jax for his services.

 

[kerouac9]

He's literally in the top 5-8 in every category that counts this season. Name 9 QBs you'd rather have?

A season where a bunch of QBs have been injured?

1. Brady
2. Brees
3. Newton
4. Matt Ryan
5. Aaron Rodgers
6. Carson Wentz
7. Deshaun Watson
8. Andrew Luck
9. Russell Wilson

Cousins is 14th in DYAR, DVOA, and Total QBR. You can quibble with those models, but what it shows is that Cousins isn't efficient when games are close.

 

[DVontel]

You'd rather have two guys who aren't even playing, and whose careers are in doubt, than Cousins? I'd have bought this if you'd said Goff/Wentz... maybe. But probably not.

Those two wouldn't make my list above Cousins, nor would Rivers/Ryan/possiby Cam. Definitely not Ben or Mariota. And if we're talking for the next 3-5 years, my list changes dramatically and puts Cousins in the top 5.

If both come back to 100% healthy, I’m taking them over Cousins. Easily, too.

I’m still taking Ryan. He might be having a down year, but that’s not surprising for coming off the year he just had. Rivers is getting up there in age so I can understand that. Cam offers more than Cousins, & I’d argue Cam has a worse supporting cast than Cousins.

Just like Rivers, Ben is getting up there so I understand that as well. Mariota is hampered by an offensive staff full of ********. I’m still higher on him than most.

I watch Cousins a lot & I’m just not overly impressed by him despite what his stats look like. Even some Skins fans have been doubting him for the past 2 years. There’s a reason he has been franchised twice.

He’s not bad, but he’s not top 10 to me at all. Jacksonville should go for him, though. Major upgrade over Bortles(even though that’s not saying much at all).

 

[kerouac9]

Rebuilding is usually much longer than a 2-3 year process. Look at how long Jax was a bottom feeder. Same with Cleveland, Rams, Jets, SF, Miami, etc. I am all for trying to win next year. By signing Cousins, the Cards cold use draft capital to fill OL/WR and other needs. Of course, I'm one a the few good with Palmer next year but would rather have Cousins in the fold long term.

But let's say sign Cousins and a WR then use draft picks on a Denzel Ward and Billy Price(OSU homer alert ) You've upgraded 4 positions, long term, with 2 draft picks.

Can't you say that with any combination of free agent signings and draft picks? If we signed Alshon Jeffrey and Cameron Fleming, we could draft a G and QB in the first two rounds. THis argument is dumb.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Can't you say that with any combination of free agent signings and draft picks? If we signed Alshon Jeffrey and Cameron Fleming, we could draft a G and QB in the first two rounds. THis argument is dumb.

As dumb as it sounds, signing Cousins would probably have more of an impact than Cameron Fleming or Jeffery and it's much easier to fill those positions in the draft.

You know what else is dumb? Using DVOA and useless made up metrics to support arguments or build your team, see the 1-27 metric based Cleveland Browns.

 

[Solar7]

A season where a bunch of QBs have been injured?

1. Brady
2. Brees
3. Newton
4. Matt Ryan
5. Aaron Rodgers
6. Carson Wentz
7. Deshaun Watson
8. Andrew Luck
9. Russell Wilson

Cousins is 14th in DYAR, DVOA, and Total QBR. You can quibble with those models, but what it shows is that Cousins isn't efficient when games are close.

I still can't get on board with Luck and Watson. Not really Brees, either, because of the age. Cam concerns me because of how many hits he takes... and I've never liked Ryan.

I'd probably go:

Brady
Rodgers
Wilson
Brees
Stafford
Cousins
Newton
Ryan
Wentz
Rivers
Roethlisberger
Carr
Goff
Mariota
Manning


I'm not ready to put Watson in the top 15 after a few sample games and a second torn ACL. I'm making this list under my personal assumption that Luck will never play another down in the NFL.

 

[kerouac9]

You'd put Cousins over the reigning NFL MVP? Okay, bro.

 

[Solar7]

You'd put Cousins over the reigning NFL MVP? Okay, bro.

I think he does more with less. If Cousins had Julio Jones & Roddy White to throw to throughout his career, things would be different record-wise. If he had a top 10 RB behind him, things might be different. I don't think Ryan is really capable of inspiring a team.

 

[kerouac9]

I think he does more with less. If Cousins had Julio Jones & Roddy White to throw to throughout his career, things would be different record-wise. If he had a top 10 RB behind him, things might be different. I don't think Ryan is really capable of inspiring a team.

He just went to the Super Bowl.
Cam Newton was there two years ago. Newton's a year younger than Cousins.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I still can't get on board with Luck and Watson. Not really Brees, either, because of the age. Cam concerns me because of how many hits he takes... and I've never liked Ryan.

I'd probably go:

Brady
Rodgers
Wilson
Brees
Stafford
Cousins
Newton
Ryan
Wentz
Rivers
Roethlisberger
Carr
Goff
Mariota
Manning


I'm not ready to put Watson in the top 15 after a few sample games and a second torn ACL. I'm making this list under my personal assumption that Luck will never play another down in the NFL.

If there was any remote truth to that list... Cousins would have been given a huge contract by the Redskins as of yesterday

 

[Solar7]

He just went to the Super Bowl.
Cam Newton was there two years ago. Newton's a year younger than Cousins.

Again, different talent levels around them. Washington is neither a highly talented team or a particularly well coached team, especially through the past 3 years.

Cam had the #6 overall defense that provided 39 turnovers that season. Kirk Cousins has never had more than the #17 ranked defense in his years as a starter. Not to mention, Cam takes a bunch of big hits, and that will eventually catch up in injury... whereas Kirk has stayed mostly clean and can play many more years with his style.

Ryan had the #5 overall running game his MVP year. Cousins has never had more than #15.

Regardless, Cousins continues to put up the stats and pass the eye test.

 

[Solar7]

If there was any remote truth to that list... Cousins would have been given a huge contract by the Redskins yesterday lol

I'm spending a lot of time shilling for the guy this afternoon but the honest truth of it all is that he's been in the top 5-8 of QB categories for the only three years he's been the starter, and with the exception of one amazing year by Ryan, has beaten both guys every year he's been given the starting job in quarterback rating. By the numbers, he's a top 5-8 guy, with lesser talent around him. It's not my fault that the Redskins are making poor choices.