Game 15 Impressions: Cardinals 27 Cowboys 26

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
Of all the sportswriters who cover the Cardinals, the one who, imo, has been by far the most accurate, tell-it-like-it-is and insightful since the Green Bay playoff game last year (where he was the only Arizona sportswriter to pick---with conviction---the Cardinals to beat the Packers), has been Dan Bickley...

And I would be all the more impressed with Bickley were it not for two reasons: (1) his endorsement of starting Max Hall over John Skelton (which he may deserve a reprieve on seeing as he and the other reporters have fell repeatedly into the trap of trusting what the Cardinal coaches tell them); and (2) this morning's blog where he argues that last night's exciting win over the Cowboys was a costly one.

As for the first point...now that we have watched John Skelton start for three games (2-1, 2-0 at home)...the winning has been a nice surprise, but it's how Skelton has handled himself and it's the array of skills and intangibles (poise, fearlessness) that make any one who watches the Cardinals wonder how in the world Skelton was backburnered in a year where the QB play was about as poor as it ever has been.

Ken Whisenhunt loses a great deal of credibility in his handling of Skelton---more on Whisenhunt and the coaches later.

Yet for the second point---the most important aspect of last night's victory, which is far more important than losing two slots in the draft---is what John Skelton proved in the final two minutes of the game---what he proved is---despite the fact that his coaches---once spotted with an 18 point lead---were calling the most conservative plays imaginable, few of which catered to Skelton's strengths---despite that fact also that when Skelton was forced to pass in the two-minute drill to win the game, the Cardinal coaches---once again in egregious fashion---failed to account for All-World DE DeMarcus Ware, the one defensive player you have to double, when inexplicably they left Skelton's backside unprotected by asking Levi Brown to handle Ware one-on-one.

Yet---Skelton did not fumble the ball on Ware's sack---which other recent Cardinal QBs most likely would have---and---get this---after yet another simply stupid call on 3rd and 15 (another screen??? when clearly the screens were a bad idea all night---how about the WR screen to Max Komar earlier in the game on 3rd and 9?:bang:)....yes, get this---did you see the look of calm and confidence on Skelton's face on 4th and 15?

John Skelton went ahead and won this game despite the coaches. And what he proved in doing so is that---if given coaches who can actually coach him up...if given WRs, TEs and RBs who can catch just even the accurate passes---he has the composure, the footwork, the mobility, the arm and the competitiveness to be an excellent NFL QB. How about the deep pass to Andre Roberts---best deep pass of the year by far---how about the touch pass to Roberts for a key third down conversion---how about the zip pass up the seam to Fitz on 4th and 15---great stuff---each pass requiring a different release point and velocity.

What Bickley did affirm very well in his morning blog is how last night's game once again exposed the Cardinals' "fatal flaws." In particular, despite what was a spirited effort on the Cardinals' defense's part for most of the game, they could not close the game out, even with the Cowboys' 3rd string QB in the game--- a player who had never played in an NFL game.

Once again we saw some late game gaffes on the part of the defensive coaches that have to make you question the coaches' understanding of how to prepare and how to win a game...most conspicuous case in point: how in the world, with the game on the line, is nickel CB Michael Adams matched up with Miles Austin? Why is DRC matched up instead on Sam Hurd? Irony: DRC---with the game on the line gets flagged playing Hurd anyway...and as any reasonable person would expect, Adams (who appears to be playing hurt), could not run stride for stride with Austin.

The coaches started the game with DRC on Austin---and looked what happened! Why they wouldn't end the game with DRC on Austin???

Yet once and once again---don't you come out of this game worrying that because the team won and the defense---in a non-pressure game---played better for most of the game (and didn't stink like rotten meat the way they did in Carolina last week and in every NFC West home game where the team went a dismal 0-3)---that no coaching changes will take place on defense next year???

What I would have loved Bickley to step up and say this morning is what a colossal mismanagement of NFL talent this coaching staff has coordinated this year.

What I would have love Bickley to have the cajones to point out is that the coaches have actually been doing their best to lose these games---when you start a NT who gets blown off the ball for 1 and 1/2 quarters (his only near tackle was a facemask that amazingly was not called), and your 1st rounder NT comes in and in two plays impacts the game in a major way: first by showing the extraordinary quickness to arrive into the flat to paste the WR on a WR hitch screen; and then second by batting down the next pass.

When the playcalling is so awful game after game...especially in clutch situations...

When the HC won't even consider going for it on 4th and 1...time and time again...

Look at the talent that the Cardinals had on defense last night---3 Pro Bowlers from last year in Dockett, Wilson and DRC---a one-time AP All-Pro safety in Rhodes---two solid vets in Haggans and Lenon---surrounded by young players who have the talent to become Pro Bowlers such as Calais Campbell, Dan Williams and Daryl Washington---and some good young players in Toler (nice pick-six), Schofield (nice first sack!) and Johnson (nice chop down tackle of Hurd on the slant---and nearly a nice breakup on the Austin TD---at least it was well read and played---he makes that play next time).

Yet...look at how these players tackle...they tackle like they have never been taught...almost all of them tackle high---epitomized by Adrian Wilson's ridiculous attempt to tackle Marion Barber high and getting piggybacked five yards into the end zone.

Why do they tackle high? Like Paris Lenon---he gets away with it every now and then---but, c'mon man---this is why RBs get two to three more yards every run. This is why EVERY big RB has it easy running versus the Cardinals.

Why don't the coaches correct the tackling issues?

Because the players are not listening to the coaches.

The players played last night's game for themselves...just as John Skelton did in the two-minute drill.

Thanks to Skelton---thanks to Larry Fitz keeping his head in the game right to the end when he was going o-fer all night---thanks to Max Komar catching a pass most of the others were dropping earlier in the game---and most of all, thanks to Jay Feely---a player who focuses better than anyone else on the team, especially in honing the fundamentals---

We Cardinal fans last night could sleep with visions of sugar plums in our heads.
 
Last edited:

desertdawg

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Posts
21,831
Reaction score
1
Location
@Desertdawg777
Yamon, Skelton didn't cost us the game, he had a major role in our victory. That was sweet. Tackling? I can't figure that one out, I thought these guys were Pros. Nice post Mitch, happy holidays amigo. One more win next week and we can put this season behind us. (along with our DC)
 

MoeIsBetter

SPA Co-Commishioner
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Posts
1,250
Reaction score
26
Location
Surprise, AZ
Sometimes Mitch you only know half of what you're talking about. DRC was lined up on Austin the entire game...until he hurt his groin. Then they did some switching around so that DRC could still play in the game but there was no way he would have kept up with Austin that last TD run. Even if he could have, Rashad Johnson should have intercepted that ball anyway.

And there was always more hope for Skelton than there was for Max Hall. But Whiz is (other than this season) pretty strick on rookie playing time. Max was a guy they could chance on and if he didn't work, thats ok cause we drafted Skelton. And last night showed why they were right. Their were reads ALL over the field that he missed last night. Did he make a good 4 and 15 pass? Sure he did. Should have had way more of those passes but chose to check out of it and pass it to Roberts or a TE. He still has a LOT of growing but despite that, we still won the game. Maybe the coaches know a little more than you do...just sayin.
 

dogpoo32

meh
Joined
Nov 14, 2004
Posts
7,216
Reaction score
23
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Agree, coaching has been very disappointing all year. Big changes need to happen. Need a real OC and a real DC. No more of this promote from within crap.
 

Red Dawn

Go Big Red!
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Posts
4,118
Reaction score
1,116
Location
The West Coast of Arizona
Great summary, Mitch.

Whiz totally mismanaged the QB situation this year, starting with Leinart and ending with Skelton. It's funny, my wife is a relatively new football fan. She liked what she saw in Skelton in the preseason, and was calling for him very early in the season; so much for the so-called experts. On one of the pre-game shows the hosts were talking about the recent success of rookie QB's the last few years like Flacco, Big Ben, Bradford, etc.; maybe a QB doesn't have to sit for years like the old school theory dictates.

It seems like bad tackling is a league wide phenomenon, with players going for the highlight-film strip of the ball instead of wrapping up. We are soft; when a big back hits our second level it looks like a bunch of 6th graders trying to tackle an 8th grader. Most of the time our guys look scared of contact.
 

ajcardfan

I see you.
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
36,904
Reaction score
21,405
It seems like bad tackling is a league wide phenomenon, with players going for the highlight-film strip of the ball instead of wrapping up. We are soft; when a big back hits our second level it looks like a bunch of 6th graders trying to tackle an 8th grader. Most of the time our guys look scared of contact.

That's because tackling is never practiced in the NFL anymore. In fact, colleges also minimize live tackling drills in practice. That's because with the players having these freakish combinations of size and speed, the risk of injury is just too high.
 

Cardiac

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
12,034
Reaction score
3,198
Sometimes Mitch you only know half of what you're talking about. DRC was lined up on Austin the entire game...until he hurt his groin. Then they did some switching around so that DRC could still play in the game but there was no way he would have kept up with Austin that last TD run. Even if he could have, Rashad Johnson should have intercepted that ball anyway.

This can't be right, don't you know all of our coaches are complete idiots.

And there was always more hope for Skelton than there was for Max Hall. But Whiz is (other than this season) pretty strick on rookie playing time. Max was a guy they could chance on and if he didn't work, thats ok cause we drafted Skelton. And last night showed why they were right. Their were reads ALL over the field that he missed last night. Did he make a good 4 and 15 pass? Sure he did. Should have had way more of those passes but chose to check out of it and pass it to Roberts or a TE. He still has a LOT of growing but despite that, we still won the game. Maybe the coaches know a little more than you do...just sayin.

Don't let your objectivity cloud having a good hate on.
Am I the only one who has read and heard that Skelton is still having trouble calling the plays correctly? Using the correct verbage etc.

Hall got the start before Skelton because he knew the offense.

To be clear Moe, very good post.
 

LarryStalling

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Posts
1,138
Reaction score
106
I loved when Calais Campbell drilled Marion Barber. That is about as hard of a tackle as I have seen the Cards make this season. Almost acted like he knocked him out the way he fell to the ground.
 

Cardiac

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
12,034
Reaction score
3,198
I loved when Calais Campbell drilled Marion Barber. That is about as hard of a tackle as I have seen the Cards make this season. Almost acted like he knocked him out the way he fell to the ground.

It was a great hit but I thought it was Choice that was nailed.
 

ajcardfan

I see you.
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
36,904
Reaction score
21,405
Don't let your objectivity cloud having a good hate on.
Am I the only one who has read and heard that Skelton is still having trouble calling the plays correctly? Using the correct verbage etc.

Hall got the start before Skelton because he knew the offense.

To be clear Moe, very good post.

You'll never find a post from me saying Max Hall is ever going to be a good NFL QB. But, even I can understand why he started first. BYU runs an NFL style offense and Skelton is coming from FORDHAM.

Whisenhunt said in his postgame radio interview that, even though he was very happy with how Skelton finished the game, Skelton missed numerous plays he expects the QB to make. And, that he needs to build on this finish and continue to get better.
 

LarryStalling

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Posts
1,138
Reaction score
106
Mitch, I still think that the Cards are not using Skelton's abilities to the fullest when they ask him to dink and dunk the passing game. Once again he displayed an aptitude for the down the field passing game.

One more thing, Skelton did look scared to death when Ware was chasing him out of the pocket when he threw that rocket to Spach. It looked like he was very grateful just to have a chance to get rid of the ball.
 

Duckjake

LEGACY MEMBER
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Jun 10, 2002
Posts
32,190
Reaction score
317
Location
Texas
Don't let your objectivity cloud having a good hate on.
Am I the only one who has read and heard that Skelton is still having trouble calling the plays correctly? Using the correct verbage etc.

Hall got the start before Skelton because he knew the offense.

To be clear Moe, very good post.

Yeah right. All our coaches are great and every player on the team is all-pro, very solid, or has tremendous potential.

That's why the Cards are dead last in the worst division in the NFL and at or near the bottom of every statistical category and lost to the worst team, record wise, in the NFL and will likely finish 5-11 for the 100th time.

Face it. The entire organization stunk it up this year and an always enjoyable win over the Cowboys doesn't cover the stench.
 

conraddobler

I want my 2$
Joined
Sep 1, 2002
Posts
20,052
Reaction score
237
You'll never find a post from me saying Max Hall is ever going to be a good NFL QB. But, even I can understand why he started first. BYU runs an NFL style offense and Skelton is coming from FORDHAM.

Whisenhunt said in his postgame radio interview that, even though he was very happy with how Skelton finished the game, Skelton missed numerous plays he expects the QB to make. And, that he needs to build on this finish and continue to get better.

Of course he did.

Whiz can seriously have a giant can of ****, he's bungled this season on QB's as hard as ANY HC has bungled QB's in my memory.

His credibility on this subject as far as I'm concerned is zero.

I expect a rookie to miss reads, that's most of what they do, but if you notice and pay attention that's about the worst thing Skelton does, which is actually quite promising.

Whiz could just shut up and dispense with stating the obvious and simply say I expect that he will with time learn to read defenses much better.

Whiz has the single most annoying way of stating the obvious that just grates on me.

Most people will tell you that QB's take about three years to mature.

We're in year one.

Great coaching can accelerate that some, bad coaching is going to prolong it.

I would put Whiz in the later category, his teaching skills to me are pretty poor.

His spotting of QB talent until Skelton showed up was looking to be nonexistant.

On top of all this Whiz is just horrible at simplifying the gameplan for a rookie IMO.

All this Skelton had to work through and still did a workman like job with rookie written all over it, except for panic and except for huge negative mistakes.

How about focusing on what he didn't get wrong Whiz?

Either that or just go play golf with your buddies, DA is probably a great guy to do that with, especially in any wind.
 
Last edited:

Cardiac

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
12,034
Reaction score
3,198
I guess many of us were wrong about Hall being better then Skelton.

I agree with you, Redheart ! After that abomination of a shovel pass, I had seen enough. The Cardinals really need Hall's accuracy, his mobility and his playmaking prowess.

Here's what I think Whiz's situation is. What he didn't get a chance to see is what Hall could do with the 1st team offense versus another team's starters...which made him reluctant to throw Hall in too early.

But, now, I found myself agreeing with Bickley and his urging this week to start Hall for the following reasons:

1. The longer the wait the harder it may be for Hall. He's used to playing and getting into a groove. Plus...too much time to think...can often be a deterrent.

2. It would not be the wisest of scenarios to wait for the Seahawks' game as Hall's first start...which was at the forefront of Bickley's argument. What the team doesn't need is first game jitters from Hall in that important game. He needs to have his feet wet by then. Plus, he needs to develop his timing and chemistry with the receivers.

3. I would absolutlely love to see Hall versus Brees...in a matchup of similar styles...how many of you saw Brees' first drive on MNF in the first game versus the Vikings? He was pressured by the LDE, stepped up into a clear passing lane and delivered a strike TD...and it looked almost exactly like the play Hall made in pre-season when he stepped up to elude the pressure and found an open Max Komar for the TD.

Mobility + Accuracy + Ability to Think Fast Under Pressure = The Three Biggest QB Keys to Winning in Today's NFL.

I believe Hall is head and shoulders better at all three than any QB on the Cardinals' roster today and through training camp.

I'm not adept at posting quotes from different threads. This was from Mitch btw.
 
Last edited:

Cardiac

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
12,034
Reaction score
3,198
Yeah right. All our coaches are great and every player on the team is all-pro, very solid, or has tremendous potential.

That's why the Cards are dead last in the worst division in the NFL and at or near the bottom of every statistical category and lost to the worst team, record wise, in the NFL and will likely finish 5-11 for the 100th time.

Face it. The entire organization stunk it up this year and an always enjoyable win over the Cowboys doesn't cover the stench.

It's been a miserable year for the Cards and of course the fans.

Venting is one thing but blaming every coach for everything that has gone wrong this season is extreme, IMWO. Does anyone really think Whiz has done everthing to ruin Skeltons' chances of being successful? Well it does appear some do and that drives me just as crazy as many of the teams losses this year.
 

Rats

Somanyfreaks,SofewCircus'
Joined
Sep 28, 2002
Posts
4,075
Reaction score
6
Yeah right. All our coaches are great and every player on the team is all-pro, very solid, or has tremendous potential.

That's why the Cards are dead last in the worst division in the NFL and at or near the bottom of every statistical category and lost to the worst team, record wise, in the NFL and will likely finish 5-11 for the 100th time.

Face it. The entire organization stunk it up this year and an always enjoyable win over the Cowboys doesn't cover the stench.

+1 Division was with in reach save for really bad decisions by coaches, players and Front office. We were our own worst enemy this season and our record reflects it.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
34,998
Reaction score
31,469
Location
Orange County, CA
Sometimes Mitch you only know half of what you're talking about. DRC was lined up on Austin the entire game...until he hurt his groin. Then they did some switching around so that DRC could still play in the game but there was no way he would have kept up with Austin that last TD run. Even if he could have, Rashad Johnson should have intercepted that ball anyway.

And there was always more hope for Skelton than there was for Max Hall. But Whiz is (other than this season) pretty strick on rookie playing time. Max was a guy they could chance on and if he didn't work, thats ok cause we drafted Skelton. And last night showed why they were right. Their were reads ALL over the field that he missed last night. Did he make a good 4 and 15 pass? Sure he did. Should have had way more of those passes but chose to check out of it and pass it to Roberts or a TE. He still has a LOT of growing but despite that, we still won the game. Maybe the coaches know a little more than you do...just sayin.

Can't agree more!

Mitch, I love you to death dog, but when you get something in your head, you harp on it over and over. And you do get credit for this: You throw bold opinions out there and stick to your guns, even when you're dead wrong. Very admirable.

But I totally disagree that Skelton succeeded despite poor coaching. I saw WIDE OPEN receivers all night long! Wide open. Kurt Warner would have FEASTED on the Cowboys. Skelton is a good young player, but most good young QBs with very little playing time are going to struggle in that situation.

I've seen it all year long, QB play is hampering this offense, NOT bad coaching. As far as the running game is concerned, teams have been playing a lot of 7-8 man fronts against us and since we don't have even a fair passing game we struggle. That's not coaching; that's poor personnel.

It may be time to part ways with Russ Grimm....or it might be time to add some more talent to the offensive line. Maybe both. But this offensive line is terribad and we need help.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
34,998
Reaction score
31,469
Location
Orange County, CA
On top of all this Whiz is just horrible at simplifying the gameplan for a rookie IMO.

All this Skelton had to work through and still did a workman like job with rookie written all over it, except for panic and except for huge negative mistakes.

How about focusing on what he didn't get wrong Whiz?

Either that or just go play golf with your buddies, DA is probably a great guy to do that with, especially in any wind.

Disagree completely. The offense has been obviously dumbed down, just watch how simplified things have become versus what we were running last year for Warner.

Night and Day.

Plain and simple, Skelton has struggled mightily to find open receivers (like many young QBs do) and that's not a knock on Whisenhunt. And Whisenhunt IMO is wise to bring down the expectations and fanfare for Skelton. He's a project and we don't need anyone to get too excited about him so early.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
34,998
Reaction score
31,469
Location
Orange County, CA
Yeah right. All our coaches are great and every player on the team is all-pro, very solid, or has tremendous potential.

That's why the Cards are dead last in the worst division in the NFL and at or near the bottom of every statistical category and lost to the worst team, record wise, in the NFL and will likely finish 5-11 for the 100th time.

Face it. The entire organization stunk it up this year and an always enjoyable win over the Cowboys doesn't cover the stench.

It's funny, but Cardiac sounds a lot more objective than your typical Whis Sucks! posts that I see over and over.

:)
 

Rats

Somanyfreaks,SofewCircus'
Joined
Sep 28, 2002
Posts
4,075
Reaction score
6
It's funny, but Cardiac sounds a lot more objective than your typical Whis Sucks! posts that I see over and over.

:)

If anything this is the season to not be objective. There is nothing funny about it. As stated we are last in the worst division ever. As stated, we are near last in most statistical catagories and we should be objective about the choice of DA as Qb? or Bill Davis' D? or Whis' play calling? or our 5 win season? or playing Hall over Skelton?? We should give a pass and be objective about not getting a OLine up to NFL standards( made worse by signing a has been Steeler)in the last 3 years? Sorry, we barely beat the Cowboys at home and it is nice but not enough to be objective about this putrid season Whis, Graves and the Bidwills gave us. Seen it to many times.
 

Rats

Somanyfreaks,SofewCircus'
Joined
Sep 28, 2002
Posts
4,075
Reaction score
6
Of course he did.

Whiz can seriously have a giant can of ****, he's bungled this season on QB's as hard as ANY HC has bungled QB's in my memory.

His credibility on this subject as far as I'm concerned is zero.

I expect a rookie to miss reads, that's most of what they do, but if you notice and pay attention that's about the worst thing Skelton does, which is actually quite promising.

Whiz could just shut up and dispense with stating the obvious and simply say I expect that he will with time learn to read defenses much better.

Whiz has the single most annoying way of stating the obvious that just grates on me.

Most people will tell you that QB's take about three years to mature.

We're in year one.

Great coaching can accelerate that some, bad coaching is going to prolong it.

I would put Whiz in the later category, his teaching skills to me are pretty poor.

His spotting of QB talent until Skelton showed up was looking to be nonexistant.

On top of all this Whiz is just horrible at simplifying the gameplan for a rookie IMO.

All this Skelton had to work through and still did a workman like job with rookie written all over it, except for panic and except for huge negative mistakes.

How about focusing on what he didn't get wrong Whiz?

Either that or just go play golf with your buddies, DA is probably a great guy to do that with, especially in any wind.

+1 Wow, if you had included just a little on his mindgames this season you would have covered exactly how I see it. Be ready for those whinning about how he is a great coach that made Warner into a superman and lead us to a Super Bowl with players no one else could coach. Be objective Man!!!
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
537,366
Posts
5,269,582
Members
6,276
Latest member
ConpiracyCard
Top