David Johnson dont want Murray

[Solar7]

guess which post got me to hit the like button

I'm going to choose door #3.

 

[ARZCardinals]

I have an actual response for guys who are Cardinals fans, haven't been trolling since last season in nearly every post, don't still rock a Chargers icon 6 months after they proclaimed they weren't a fan anymore, and put in the effort to write coherent arguments.

again another non answer to....A thread about a player who's a HAS BEEN acting like he's some leader of the team.
You gotta admit DJ isn't relevant anymore...he tried about as hard as Beanie Wells last season.
Again, listen to leaders of the team Chandler Jones, Patrick Peterson and Larry Fitz when they talk.
You should be laughing at everything DJ says....he's taken his pay check and sat in the corner....shoot you should be upset that DJ got paid and the Cardinals expected him to maintain his playing style instead he's robbing the team blind. 3 yards a carry and 3 TD's last season and took up over $29 million of the cap space.
This is his last season in AZ anyway 2020 he has over $10 million owed to him....there is NO WAY the Cardinals pay him....as the Doors said, "This is the End"

 

[Dr. Jones]

again another non answer to....A thread about a player who's a HAS BEEN acting like he's some leader of the team.
You gotta admit DJ isn't relevant anymore...he tried about as hard as Beanie Wells last season.
Again, listen to leaders of the team Chandler Jones, Patrick Peterson and Larry Fitz when they talk.
You should be laughing at everything DJ says....he's taken his pay check and sat in the corner....shoot you should be upset that DJ got paid and the Cardinals expected him to maintain his playing style instead he's robbing the team blind. 3 yards a carry and 3 TD's last season and took up over $29 million of the cap space.
This is his last season in AZ anyway 2020 he has over $10 million owed to him....there is NO WAY the Cardinals pay him....as the Doors said, "This is the End"

NSFW

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[BW52]

Well done Dr.Jones

 

[Shane]

again another non answer to....A thread about a player who's a HAS BEEN acting like he's some leader of the team.
You gotta admit DJ isn't relevant anymore...he tried about as hard as Beanie Wells last season.
Again, listen to leaders of the team Chandler Jones, Patrick Peterson and Larry Fitz when they talk.
You should be laughing at everything DJ says....he's taken his pay check and sat in the corner....shoot you should be upset that DJ got paid and the Cardinals expected him to maintain his playing style instead he's robbing the team blind. 3 yards a carry and 3 TD's last season and took up over $29 million of the cap space.
This is his last season in AZ anyway 2020 he has over $10 million owed to him....there is NO WAY the Cardinals pay him....as the Doors said, "This is the End"

Considering the O last year to grind out just shy of 1000 rushing almost 500 receiving and double digit TD’s I’d say your grasping at straws. Lol

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My opinion of Murray comes from leaving school and leaving a contract he signed in another sport. Along with the complete unwillingness to participate in workouts that weren't on his terms, in his spot. The cherry on top is how poorly he interviews with media. No, I haven't gotten a beer with the guy, but that's enough for me to say it's too much of a risk.


The bigger the risk, the harder it fails.

You’re basing your opinion on some real limited, and frankly surface, data imo.

Also the bigger the risk typically the bigger the reward. I tend to be a realists by nature, not a pessimist, so i try to see both sides of an equation. But that’s just me.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He ran for 940 and caught 446 in a historically bad offense last year. Moron.

An offense of which he was a part. Let’s not forgive his role. If we forgive each player then it was all on the coaches? Don’t buy that. They all had a hand in last year’s crud.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Anyone who says DJ is a has been is smoking Illegal substances, when Murray rolls out and continually dumps to DJ, I'mma bump this.

Of course the man will stick up for the guy who is on his team. This isn't a condemnation of Murray like you Anti Murray Liberals are trying to make it. It's a man trying to be a good teammate and be supportive of his current QB

Funny, I see the anti-Murray crowd as definitely being conservatives. Don’t want the new, want to stay with the old white regime.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And had 10 TD's

Meh TDs are a product of opportunity. See Barry sanders career.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

again another non answer to....A thread about a player who's a HAS BEEN acting like he's some leader of the team.
You gotta admit DJ isn't relevant anymore...he tried about as hard as Beanie Wells last season.
Again, listen to leaders of the team Chandler Jones, Patrick Peterson and Larry Fitz when they talk.
You should be laughing at everything DJ says....he's taken his pay check and sat in the corner....shoot you should be upset that DJ got paid and the Cardinals expected him to maintain his playing style instead he's robbing the team blind. 3 yards a carry and 3 TD's last season and took up over $29 million of the cap space.
This is his last season in AZ anyway 2020 he has over $10 million owed to him....there is NO WAY the Cardinals pay him....as the Doors said, "This is the End"

I think we’ve seen the best of DJ’s brief career, but I think you might be a little off the deep end here . . .

 

[Solar7]

You’re basing your opinion on some real limited, and frankly surface, data imo.

Also the bigger the risk typically the bigger the reward. I tend to be a realists by nature, not a pessimist, so i try to see both sides of an equation. But that’s just me.

I'd rather base it on empirical, unquestionable data, than wildly conflicting reports from beat writers whose job it is be muckrakers.

I'm a realist myself. I wouldn't consider myself risk-averse. But, I'm basing this on both sides of the issue...

1. You draft Murray..
2. You admit that three of last year's picks were a waste.
3. You (maybe?) get something for Rosen?
4. You lose the opportunity to draft a guy in 2020, because you're not going to the well three times.

1. You draft Rosen...
2. You have an opportunity to give your new coach a talented player to work with
3. You add a presumably elite defensive player and help the guy with some weapons.
4. If everything busts, you can start over with another QB next year, because you'll probably be in the top 5 again.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Funny, I see the anti-Murray crowd as definitely being conservatives. Don’t want the new, want to stay with the old white regime.

I see it like the Trump Election, Not my QB, just a complete hate for Murray, While Rosen is Hillary who hasn't done much, but respected hahahaha

 

[Shane]

Meh TDs are a product of opportunity. See Barry sanders career.

Double digit TDs are nothing to sniff at in last years O...

His numbers as a whole are really not bad considering how bad the entries O was.

 

[ARZCardinals]

Sanders had 1400+ and over 2000 yards his last two years and 15 TDS

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'd rather base it on empirical, unquestionable data, than wildly conflicting reports from beat writers whose job it is be muckrakers.

I'm a realist myself. I wouldn't consider myself risk-averse. But, I'm basing this on both sides of the issue...

1. You draft Murray..
2. You admit that three of last year's picks were a waste.
3. You (maybe?) get something for Rosen?
4. You lose the opportunity to draft a guy in 2020, because you're not going to the well three times.

1. You draft Rosen...
2. You have an opportunity to give your new coach a talented player to work with
3. You add a presumably elite defensive player and help the guy with some weapons.
4. If everything busts, you can start over with another QB next year, because you'll probably be in the top 5 again.

Lol. That’s not both sides. That’s one side. First you double up with “you get nothing for last year’s picks” and “you may get something for Rosen” - that’s laughable bc at a minimum they get something for Rosen. If no ones willing to give anything then he’s teally not worth anything which makes your “talented player to work with” comment meaningless.
And what about, if Rosen actually sucks ass you’ve not forfeited one season, but two?

A realist tries to see all angles. I don’t think your willing, or capable in this discussion(?), of doing that. At least not that I’ve seen.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I see it like the Trump Election, Not my QB, just a complete hate for Murray, While Rosen is Hillary who hasn't done much, but respected hahahaha

Funny and awful both ways I suppose.

 

[dscher]

Don’t want the new, want to stay with the old white regime.

You lost me at the second part.

 

[Solar7]

Lol. That’s not both sides. That’s one side. First you double up with “you get nothing for last year’s picks” and “you may get something for Rosen” - that’s laughable bc at a minimum they get something for Rosen. If no ones willing to give anything then he’s teally not worth anything which makes your “talented player to work with” comment meaningless.
And what about, if Rosen actually sucks ass you’ve not forfeited one season, but two?

A realist tries to see all angles. I don’t think your willing, or capable in this discussion(?), of doing that. At least not that I’ve seen.

I mean, all that needs to be said about whether or not I'm seeing all angles is that I'm not necessarily "Anti-Murray." I do, in fact, get why he's tantalizing. I get why people are excited and want to draft him, damn the consequences/sunk year.

The only reason I phrased it as "getting nothing" is that no matter what, we already wasted two of those picks. They're not coming back and will never play a snap for this team. Rosen's a moment away from having played one bad year of football and never anything again. I phrased it as "maybe" getting something for Rosen because there's plenty of posters here who want to keep him, which means no immediate return, maybe none at all as he rides the pine and eventually washes out of the league. And aside of that, there's no guarantee we're getting a first, second, or even a third.

I don't personally think the return is less than a third, but the moment Murray comes to the podium as our pick, other teams hold the negotiation advantage, not the Cardinals.

As far as forfeiting two seasons, not just one... pro-tip, your boy Murray absolutely doesn't guarantee we don't forfeit it all again this year. Or for years to come.

The argument I'm seeing is "hand Kyler Murray what's more or less the same team Josh Rosen had last year, and that will translate into a playoff season and immediate contention." Andrew Luck is pretty much the only QB that has ever led that kind of turnaround on a team. Every other great rookie QB has had a lot more around them on the field.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You lost me at the second part.

I’m not really trying to insinuate anyone has racist undertones on this argument . . . just carrying out the wacky political comparison.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

I’m not really trying to insinuate anyone has racist undertones on this argument . . . just carrying out the wacky political comparison.

Move it to Politics and Religion

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I mean, all that needs to be said about whether or not I'm seeing all angles is that I'm not necessarily "Anti-Murray." I do, in fact, get why he's tantalizing. I get why people are excited and want to draft him, damn the consequences/sunk year.

The only reason I phrased it as "getting nothing" is that no matter what, we already wasted two of those picks. They're not coming back and will never play a snap for this team. Rosen's a moment away from having played one bad year of football and never anything again. I phrased it as "maybe" getting something for Rosen because there's plenty of posters here who want to keep him, which means no immediate return, maybe none at all as he rides the pine and eventually washes out of the league. And aside of that, there's no guarantee we're getting a first, second, or even a third.

I don't personally think the return is less than a third, but the moment Murray comes to the podium as our pick, other teams hold the negotiation advantage, not the Cardinals.

As far as forfeiting two seasons, not just one... pro-tip, your boy Murray absolutely doesn't guarantee we don't forfeit it all again this year. Or for years to come.

The argument I'm seeing is "hand Kyler Murray what's more or less the same team Josh Rosen had last year, and that will translate into a playoff season and immediate contention." Andrew Luck is pretty much the only QB that has ever led that kind of turnaround on a team. Every other great rookie QB has had a lot more around them on the field.

A) I’ve pretty consistently stated I’m on the fence. Murray’s not “my boy.” I’m just finding a lot of arguments being made on the anti-Murray side to be spurious at best and feel compelled to point out the holes therein.

B) As the holder of the desired asset (Rosen) the cardinals will always possess the leverage unless there aren’t any buyers. But there will be. There always are for QBs.

C). Some strong hyperbole on the playoff comment. I don’t recall a single such comment.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Move it to Politics and Religion

I wasn’t the one that brought it up. Just responded. Don’t like, don’t read.

 

[Solar7]

A) I’ve pretty consistently stated I’m on the fence. Murray’s not “my boy.” I’m just finding a lot of arguments being made on the anti-Murray side to be spurious at best and feel compelled to point out the holes therein.

B) As the holder of the desired asset (Rosen) the cardinals will always possess the leverage unless there aren’t any buyers. But there will be. There always are for QBs.

C). Some strong hyperbole on the playoff comment. I don’t recall a single such comment.

A) Cool, same thing I'm trying to do in reverse.

B) Not true. If I think my 1984 Fiero is worth something, but no one wants to buy it at the price I'm setting, it's worthless. Rosen's value is going to shrink as there are less bidders in the market. As mentioned by many, the guy didn't have a lot of success already... we've driven him off the lot already.

In the case of a Kolb, Foles, Garoppolo, etc. - inexperienced guys who got less than most fans seem to think we're getting for Rosen - they had some dynamic performances. Josh's game hasn't come. All QBs who got a first in a trade in the modern era were established starters. We are gonna struggle to get value.

C) No playoffs = lost year, for me. Maybe just missing them, but looking great because the division and conference were great, like the 11-5 Patriots? But if not the playoffs, what does Murray lead the team to that isn't a "lost year?" I think a Kyler Murray led team with a middling defense maybe gets to six wins, and a Josh Rosen led team gets to six wins with strong defensive play, so... help me figure it out.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

A) Cool, same thing I'm trying to do in reverse.

B) Not true. If I think my 1984 Fiero is worth something, but no one wants to buy it at the price I'm setting, it's worthless. Rosen's value is going to shrink as there are less bidders in the market. As mentioned by many, the guy didn't have a lot of success already... we've driven him off the lot already.

In the case of a Kolb, Foles, Garoppolo, etc. - inexperienced guys who got less than most fans seem to think we're getting for Rosen - they had some dynamic performances. Josh's game hasn't come. All QBs who got a first in a trade in the modern era were established starters. We are gonna struggle to get value.

C) No playoffs = lost year, for me. Maybe just missing them, but looking great because the division and conference were great, like the 11-5 Patriots? But if not the playoffs, what does Murray lead the team to that isn't a "lost year?" I think a Kyler Murray led team with a middling defense maybe gets to six wins, and a Josh Rosen led team gets to six wins with strong defensive play, so... help me figure it out.

With QBs all you need is 1 QB-needy team and you’ve got em by the balls. And none of the guys you listed were first round picks. And I’d argue eagles got great value for kolb. A young pro bowl corner in DRC and a 2nd. If we could get a pro bowl CB and a 2nd for Rosen that would be fine with me. And three starts does not “an established starter make in Kolb.

And I see no way in hell this season is a playoff team with Murray or Rosen, so I’m not certain it’s not a wash either way.

 

[Lagerfilled]

David wants whoever is going to get him the ball regularly so he can get lots of yards & TDs and the team achieves accolades.