Can Someone Define the "Situation" that this Organization Found Itself In?

[Catfish]

This is a new Coaching Staff, and they have the right to shape this team into their mold just as Whiz was able to do when he came here. The worst, (most dire), situation was that there was no cap room. A-Dub was cut because he was old and too expensive. He knew it and so did the old coaching staff. Rhodes wrote his own ticket out by refusing to rework his contract. Don't blame that on the new coaching staff.

No, our defense won't be as spectacular as it was last year, but it will be solid and affordable under this cap. We also have gained some money with which to wiggle some in the trade/free agency market. Cutting Kolb will help too, but not as much as most people think. Most of his cost was the roster bonus we had to pay to keep him. In the mean time we signed a QB who is stout, durable, and tough, (not likely to be fragile and miss time). It remains to be seen if he can be a starter, but he is a player, not a bench rider. I see him as another Skelton, but maybe smarter.

Our defense is not done yet, as Maualuga and Cason are still in the mix, and either or both would help the defense. We still have the draft to rope a safety, and some OL help. That leaves us looking for mostly backup help, with the exception of the QB, (which incidently is enough of a dire situation by itself to warrant an entire rework). No QB and no Offense is dire enough for me.

 

[PJ1]

Grimm gone is a huge improvement.

Then factor in that the new coaching staff has multiple OL coaches and that is an improvement as well IMO.

Maybe now we will be able to better develop our young OLinemen instead of hoping they pick it up by osmosis.

Valid point or at least let's hope it is.

 

[PJ1]

And as for "Dismantling the Defense". Our DL and LBs are still intact. Sure we lost Bradley and Lenon. However dropping Bradley was addition by subtraction. Lenon is very replacable. Losing Lenon's leadership hurts but someone else will step up.

So that leaves our secondary. Oh no, we lost a pair of sup par CBs, an aging SS and an overpaid FS. How will we ever replace them in a market flooded with FA CBs, and Safties?

Our safety situation is definately worse and I didn't consider Toler sub par.

Would liked to have kept Groves for the price but not sure what happened there.

 

[PJ1]

. In the mean time we signed a QB who is stout, durable, and tough, (not likely to be fragile and miss time). It remains to be seen if he can be a starter, but he is a player, not a bench rider. I see him as another Skelton, but maybe smarter.

Another Skelton, maybe smarter?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Wrong. I had Johnson as a player that I wanted to bring back in my offseason plan.

I also wanted to bring Toler back but at the right price.

you just called Toler a subpar CB, but you wanted to bring him back? Come on man. you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

 

[MadCardDisease]

you wanted to bring back a subpar CB? Come on man. you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

As a backup for backup money. Yes.

Sub-par = less than average = Backup

 

[Cheesebeef]

As a backup for backup money. Yes.

Sub-par = less than average = Backup

but Mendenhall... who was NOTHING last year and subpar in 2011 ranking 21st in rushing (which I'd have to call less then average) in his last year when he was healthy doesn't = Backup in your world?

 

[Buckybird]

As a backup for backup money. Yes.

Sub-par = less than average = Backup

Which is what we signed in the 4 players everyone is going gaga over yesterday

Less $ + sub par = backup lol

 

[Shane]

but Mendenhall... who was NOTHING last year and subpar in 2011 ranking 21st in rushing (which I'd have to call less then average) in his last year when he was healthy doesn't = Backup in your world?

AP only had 970 yards compared to Mendenhalls 928 in 2011 was he subpar too?

 

[MadCardDisease]

but Mendenhall... who was NOTHING last year and subpar in 2011 ranking 21st in rushing (which I'd have to call less then average) in his last year when he was healthy doesn't = Backup in your world?

Not even close. I can't see how you could even compare the two.

Mendenhall was a starter for 3 years before his injury which caused him to miss part of last year. During that time he put up solid numbers.

What has Toler done to show he deserves starter money? He has 15 starts in his 4 year career. When he did start in 2010 he looked lost out there. The dude was a backup to William Gay last year. Yes William Gay who just signed an enormous $1M contract. Toler is a solid backup and nothing more.

 

[Cheesebeef]

AP only had 970 yards compared to Mendenhalls 928 in 2011 was he subpar too?

in 3 fewer games... and i'm pretty sure AP just had 2000 yards when he came back this year as opposed to Mendenhall's 200.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Not even close. I can't see how you could even compare the two.

Mendenhall was a starter for 3 years before his injury which caused him to miss part of last year. During that time he put up solid numbers.

sounds like the exact same rap i heard when we signed Stewart Bradley. I don't care what a guy did three years ago. That's ancient history in the NFL. He was supbar in his last healthy season and atrocious this year. That's a subpar player IMO. You obviously think differently.

What has Toler done to show he deserves starter money? He has 15 starts in his 4 year career. When he did start in 2010 he looked lost out there. The dude was a backup to William Gay last year. Yes William Gay who just signed an enormous $1M contract.

sometimes you have to go with young talent. I don't know if he's gonna end up being good or not, but are you going to tell me that the lifetime STer LBer deserved starting $ and a starting spot which we just signed?

 

[Shane]

in 3 fewer games... and i'm pretty sure AP just had 2000 yards when he came back this year as opposed to Mendenhall's 200.

But you were referring to 2011 when you said subpar. So just checking. He ran for a 4.1 clip and had 9TD's that year thats hardly sub par. In no way shape or form is that sub par. Hes had one down year(post injury) and is extremely young. He is coming off the injury that for most normal people typically takes 2 full years to recover from and be completely back to himself.

Your just being a hater. I say we give the guy a chance and see physically what he has this year. Hell he signed a one year show me deal. He must be pretty damn confident.

 

[crisper57]

Our "Situation" sucks worse that this Situation:

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[MadCardDisease]

sounds like the exact same rap i heard when we signed Stewart Bradley. I don't care what a guy did three years ago. That's ancient history in the NFL. He was supbar in his last healthy season and atrocious this year. That's a subpar player IMO. You obviously think differently.

If Mendenhall is benched and never sees the field you will be right. I just can't see that happening. At least Mendenhall only signed a 1 year contract so there is zero risk involved if he doesn't pan out, where as we are still suffering from the Bradley signing.

 

[CardsFan88]

Actually Bell was pretty good. Is he still now? Hard to say, father time doesn't stop for anyone.

I think he's a steal for what we got him for. Some guys play good and don't get much money. He had some stellar years in Miami. His stats overall from 2008-2012 are nothing to sneeze at. Seems to be a better tackler and less of a ball hawk then Rhodes.

Stats aren't everything but from 2008-2012 tackle wise

Rhodes = 366 total tackles, but one year only played 7 games
Wilson= 356, only missed 2 games
Bell = 531 total tackles, and didn't miss a game


Solo tackles
Rhodes = 277 (again minus a total of 8 games over those 4 years)
Wilson =284
Bell = 428

Sacks
Rhodes =5
Wilson = 9.5
Bell = 7

He can play the hybrid safety position so either one really and I don't know exactly how he'll be used but he certainly has been producing. Almost as much as either one plus half of the other tackles wise.

 

[MadCardDisease]

sometimes you have to go with young talent. I don't know if he's gonna end up being good or not, but are you going to tell me that the lifetime STer LBer deserved starting $ and a starting spot which we just signed?

I agree and that is why I wanted to see them try and bring him back. However I can't get past the money that he got and the fact that we picked up Powers makes losing Toler a non issue IMO. I still think we need to sign another CB to compete for the #2 spot. However I'm not to concerned about that at this point. We've got PP, Powers and Fleming on the roster so it's not like we are completely devoid of talent at CB.

 

[Shane]

Actually Bell was pretty good. Is he still now? Hard to say, father time doesn't stop for anyone.

I think he's a steal for what we got him for. Some guys play good and don't get much money. He had some stellar years in Miami. His stats overall from 2008-2012 are nothing to sneeze at. Seems to be a better tackler and less of a ball hawk then Rhodes.

Stats aren't everything but from 2008-2012 tackle wise

Rhodes = 366 total tackles, but one year only played 7 games
Wilson= 356, only missed 2 games
Bell = 531 total tackles, and didn't miss a game


Solo tackles
Rhodes = 277 (again minus a total of 8 games over those 4 years)
Wilson =284
Bell = 428

He can play the hybrid safety position so either one really and I don't know exactly how he'll be used but he certainly has been producing. Almost as much as either one plus half of the other tackles wise.

I have no problem with Bell. He may be aging but some S in this league play pretty well, well in to their 30's!

 

[Sam Wise]

Despite what most may belive the strength of this team the past two years has been its secondary, which we just hand grenaded. CC is a stellar DE, and Dwash is great but, aside from those two who at DL or LB is really good. DD is on the decline just as much at Adub, and not sure but probably had a bigger pricetag. Acho did not progress that much at OLB. So what do we have??? Can we replace Rhodes who is almost pro bowl level every year(check your figures on this one fellas), nope. ADUB was the leader on this team and while his coverrage skills declined he is still a starter at SS in this league(oh yeah he was a Pro Bowler last year). Toler was far from Back Up quality, rest assured he is a huge upgrade over Powers for the Colts. I love PP but he can't cover the whole field, CC can't play each DL position at once, Dwash can only be so many places at once. So now we have almost as many questions on defense as we do on offense. 5-11 will seem fantastic, after watching us this year. I hate too say this but great players do not want to come here.

 

[CardsFan88]

There is a concern I've had with Adrian Wilson over the last few years with the increased attention to hard hitting. Basically once these rules went into the effect, even if Wilson hadn't lost a step, he's been playing with one arm behind his back.

I still wanted him here as he has value in other ways, like rushing the QB and basically when we have a safety up in the box, but his way of playing when back in the secondary is going bye bye, and the more stringent and more fine/suspension happy they get, the more it diminishes his value when in a more traditional safety role.

It's just something I've been thinking about the last few years....that Wilson was eventually going to get suspended with his hits and that some of the bad misses we've seen him might be a result of trying to alter his approach to comply with the new NFL rules. Or it could have just been father time.

 

[kerouac9]

This is a new Coaching Staff, and they have the right to shape this team into their mold just as Whiz was able to do when he came here. The worst, (most dire), situation was that there was no cap room. A-Dub was cut because he was old and too expensive. He knew it and so did the old coaching staff. Rhodes wrote his own ticket out by refusing to rework his contract. Don't blame that on the new coaching staff.

No, our defense won't be as spectacular as it was last year, but it will be solid and affordable under this cap. We also have gained some money with which to wiggle some in the trade/free agency market. Cutting Kolb will help too, but not as much as most people think. Most of his cost was the roster bonus we had to pay to keep him. In the mean time we signed a QB who is stout, durable, and tough, (not likely to be fragile and miss time). It remains to be seen if he can be a starter, but he is a player, not a bench rider. I see him as another Skelton, but maybe smarter.

Our defense is not done yet, as Maualuga and Cason are still in the mix, and either or both would help the defense. We still have the draft to rope a safety, and some OL help. That leaves us looking for mostly backup help, with the exception of the QB, (which incidently is enough of a dire situation by itself to warrant an entire rework). No QB and no Offense is dire enough for me.

That's the pernicious lie that some are selling. Release Bradley and Kolb and you instantly have a ton of cap room--more than enough to dip into free agency the way we have and sign the rookies.

If you need more, you could release Jay Feely ($1M in savings). There was no legitimate salary-cap motivation for releasing Gay, Wilson, and Rhodes.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's the pernicious lie that some are selling. Release Bradley and Kolb and you instantly have a ton of cap room--more than enough to dip into free agency the way we have and sign the rookies.

If you need more, you could release Jay Feely ($1M in savings). There was no legitimate salary-cap motivation for releasing Gay, Wilson, and Rhodes.

this... although, you release Gay and i have no problem with that either. Between Gay, Kolb and Bradley and you've got salary cap room to spare.

 

[kerouac9]

this... although, you release Gay and i have no problem with that either. Between Gay, Kolb and Bradley and you've got salary cap room to spare.

The problem with Gay was that (IMO) we released him on the assumption that we'd get Toler back. I'm fine with keeping Toler and losing Gay, but now Jerroud Powers is being depended upon to start as the #2 corner for 16 games.

And we're not getting out of the salary cap situation on the offensive line. It's probable that we'll add a guard and release one of those albatrosses in Colledge or Snyder, but no one can legitimately say that we got salary cap savings beyond 2013 on Rhodes and Gay, because they were both in a contract year.

As we know, no one plays their best football in a contract year. It's only a 35-year-old safety barely hanging on in the NFL that plays their best football.

 

[WildBB]

The problem with Gay was that (IMO) we released him on the assumption that we'd get Toler back. I'm fine with keeping Toler and losing Gay, but now Jerroud Powers is being depended upon to start as the #2 corner for 16 games.

FA isn't over. Gay wasn't that good.

 

[CardsFan88]

FA isn't over. Gay wasn't that good.

The problem is that Gay was signed for cheap relatively speaking and since we weren't pressed against the cap in such a way that we couldn't of signed these other guys first, there was no need to release him until they had something the new staff thinks is better.

Right now you don't have to set aside money for the draft, you don't have to do that until sometime after the draft, so that's a few million to play with, and there's other little things like that which meant we could sign guys first and cut people later.

That said what I do like is that we got Yeremiah Bell for peanuts. I think Bell is a better safety than Gay is a cornerback, and we got him for a fraction of Gay's modest salary.

So there is hope, but still we were in a situation where we didn't need to hope to find someone, we could have dipped into the rookie pool while making other cuts like Bradley and Kolb, and been fine until we needed the space.

I'm not against what we are doing, I can even see the possibility that we are better and more flexible going forward because of it. Yet while there is no doubt we are going to be more cap flexible as of now peering into the future, we could have afforded keeping Gay around until Toler or another CB signed beyond Powers...like Cason. Then say if we got Cason, we could cut Gay.

Because as of now we have no guarantee of anything, but there is a possibility that we get someone, and that overall it might be a better CB group, but it still is the incorrect procedure that leaves us vulnerable to be worse off and that this risk was needless.