A trade for Gortat...

[Errntknght]

It sounds like a ridiculous trade for the other team - Houston sending us Omer Asik in return for Gortat. Suppose out of the gate its clear that Asik and Howard cannot co-exist. Houston should view Phoenix as a 'safe' place to send Asik since they couldn't see us as competition in the near future. And Marcin was highly regarded when he backed up Howard before. He probably won't be thrilled to back up Howard again but he is as good at that job as any available center and how unhappy could he going to a contender - not that we should worry about his feelings.

Granted Houston will know that Gortat will ask for well more than he's worth but if they see this year as their golden opportunity, they could decide they'll deal with that when it happens.

They could probably get more for him from GS or Miami, two rumored destinations, but I can't envision them being happy to send him to either of their most formidable competitors. Maybe more to the point is that neither of them can send a better center than Gortat.

Then there is the interesting question of whether Phoenix would want to do this trade - McD probably sees Len as our future center and this would definitely undercut him but Asik is seven years older. Personally I think we should jump all over it - it would improve the team but it would actually reduce our frontcourt scoring and right now thats what we need to keep low in our pursuit of a high draft pick.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It sounds like a ridiculous trade for the other team - Houston sending us Omer Asik in return for Gortat. Suppose out of the gate its clear that Asik and Howard cannot co-exist. Houston should view Phoenix as a 'safe' place to send Asik since they couldn't see us as competition in the near future. And Marcin was highly regarded when he backed up Howard before. He probably won't be thrilled to back up Howard again but he is as good at that job as any available center and how unhappy could he going to a contender - not that we should worry about his feelings.

Granted Houston will know that Gortat will ask for well more than he's worth but if they see this year as their golden opportunity, they could decide they'll deal with that when it happens.

They could probably get more for him from GS or Miami, two rumored destinations, but I can't envision them being happy to send him to either of their most formidable competitors. Maybe more to the point is that neither of them can send a better center than Gortat.

Then there is the interesting question of whether Phoenix would want to do this trade - McD probably sees Len as our future center and this would definitely undercut him but Asik is seven years older. Personally I think we should jump all over it - it would improve the team but it would actually reduce our frontcourt scoring and right now thats what we need to keep low in our pursuit of a high draft pick.

I wouldn't do it unless it was the only reasonable way to move Gortat. I think it does make us better and I don't want to see that happen unless it's a significant improvement for the future. It would reduce our frontcourt scoring but right now feeding Gortat is one of the things keeping us down IMO. Adding a strong rebounder to our mix of poor shooting athletes will move us to the bottom of the lottery IMO.

I've seen all I need to see of Marcin but I still want to see us drafting in the top 5. When teams start forcing us to make jumpers we'll show our true colors pretty quickly but Asik would get us a lot of second chances. Then, put a strong interior defender behind our scrambling defense and we're going to be noticeably improved on both sides of the ball. I actually think we'd be a borderline playoff team with Omer replacing Marcin. Of course, having said that, maybe that's not such a bad move after all.

Steve

 

[Errntknght]

I worked pretty hard to convince myself we wouldn't gain much ground this year if we made the trade but you are probably right. I've been saying that defense and rebounding are what fuel the fastbreak and he's a significant step up from Gortat on both counts so it was rather silly of me to overlook that. That's what you do when you really covet a player, rationalize any way you can. (Asik's offensive efficiency shot up this last year and Gortat's tumbled, another hint we'd improve overall... which I just calculated. In fact Gortat's rating has fallen steadily as his minutes increased, not counting his first year when he only played 40 minutes. That confirms my eyeball which said that Gortat lacked the stamina needed for an NBA season as a starter.)

I might make the trade anyway. I prize defense so much - its been very tough being a Suns fan all these years, let me tell you. I have a lot of faith in McD's drafting but there's always an element of luck so there's a fair chance we'd come out ahead by grabbing Asik.

 

[bankybruce]

http://espn.go.com/nba/depth

Looking at that, there are a couple of teams he could work on.

Boston has Kris Humphries listed as the starting C, but Vitor Faverani has looked ok in preseason. N.O. has Greg Stiemsma listed as their starter. Then you have Washington who are playoffs or bust this year and have Nenê Hilario as their starter, who will be lucky to play 25 games this year and Emeka Okafor may not being much of anything.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I worked pretty hard to convince myself we wouldn't gain much ground this year if we made the trade but you are probably right. I've been saying that defense and rebounding are what fuel the fastbreak and he's a significant step up from Gortat on both counts so it was rather silly of me to overlook that. That's what you do when you really covet a player, rationalize any way you can. (Asik's offensive efficiency shot up this last year and Gortat's tumbled, another hint we'd improve overall... which I just calculated. In fact Gortat's rating has fallen steadily as his minutes increased, not counting his first year when he only played 40 minutes. That confirms my eyeball which said that Gortat lacked the stamina needed for an NBA season as a starter.)

I might make the trade anyway. I prize defense so much - its been very tough being a Suns fan all these years, let me tell you. I have a lot of faith in McD's drafting but there's always an element of luck so there's a fair chance we'd come out ahead by grabbing Asik.

I wanted a quality center so bad I talked myself into believing that Gortat would become one despite noticing something that should have tipped me the other way. I have never seen a player reach his potential when he is clearly concerned by how he "appears" to play. When you see a guy (at any level) do what Marcin does when he misses a shot or makes a bonehead pass or whatever you know he's not going anywhere. You can't worry whether the crowd knows you know it was a bad pass and you can't worry that your teammates will lose confidence in you when you miss an easy shot. When he screws up he goes to great levels to make sure that anyone watching knows that he knows he messed up. That kind of personality never excels.

Last night (against Denver), he took a couple of difficult shots and missed them. Then, he received a pass down low and had a wide open, face up 10 footer that he elected to pass out of only to get the ball right back again and throw up a wild hook shot off of a heavily guarded spin move. If he misses the wide open shot, that's on him but if he misses the tough spin shot while being heavily guarded, it's no big deal. To me, that's the way his mind works and it kills us out there.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I wanted a quality center so bad I talked myself into believing that Gortat would become one despite noticing something that should have tipped me the other way. I have never seen a player reach his potential when he is clearly concerned by how he "appears" to play. When you see a guy (at any level) do what Marcin does when he misses a shot or makes a bonehead pass or whatever you know he's not going anywhere. You can't worry whether the crowd knows you know it was a bad pass and you can't worry that your teammates will lose confidence in you when you miss an easy shot. When he screws up he goes to great levels to make sure that anyone watching knows that he knows he messed up. That kind of personality never excels.

Last night (against Denver), he took a couple of difficult shots and missed them. Then, he received a pass down low and had a wide open, face up 10 footer that he elected to pass out of only to get the ball right back again and throw up a wild hook shot off of a heavily guarded spin move. If he misses the wide open shot, that's on him but if he misses the tough spin shot while being heavily guarded, it's no big deal. To me, that's the way his mind works and it kills us out there.

Steve

I think Gortat has regressed since he arrived in Phoenix. My thoughts, he is softer since he no longer has to practice against a player like Dwight Howard who toughened him. Anyway, this is my theory.

 

[Superbone]

Trading Gortat to Houston to back up Howard again seems like cruel and unusual punishment. Besides, I don't see Houston having a glaring need for Gortat at backup center. Washington makes much more sense. Gortat needs to be a starter wherever he goes.

 

[Mainstreet]

Trading Gortat to Houston to back up Howard again seems like cruel and unusual punishment.

It does.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think Gortat has regressed since he arrived in Phoenix. My thoughts, he is softer since he no longer has to practice against a player like Dwight Howard who toughened him. Anyway, this is my theory.

I don't think so. I think they were willing to part ways with him because they came to grips with the fact that he is mentally soft. I think he's always been mentally soft and he always will be.

Watch him. Watch his behavior when he does something wrong such as miss an easy shot. In addition to the histrionics he goes through he often changes his approach for his next shots. He stops taking easy shots and only takes those ballet hook shots that rarely fall. When they go in, he looks like Olajuwon, when they miss, he looks like any other basketball player faced with a tough shot. He's too worried about his image. He has worlds of talent and he's not soft the way most "soft" players are. He's willing to bang and brawl, he's just afraid of looking bad.

Anyway, we disagree but we arrive at similar conclusions. He is soft - I just think it's between the ears.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/212192/Howard_and_Gortat_No_Longer_On_Speaking_Terms

I cannot imagine the Rockets would want Gortat. It would be just begging for a toxic locker room situation on their team, and for a player they would have zero chance of resigning.

 

[elindholm]

I think Gortat has regressed since he arrived in Phoenix.

I think it would be more accurate to say that Suns fans are overrating Gortat less now than when he first arrived. He's the same player. In particular, people on this board have been complaining about his fear of the rim ever since he showed up in Phoenix.

 

[Superbone]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/212192/Howard_and_Gortat_No_Longer_On_Speaking_Terms

I cannot imagine the Rockets would want Gortat. It would be just begging for a toxic locker room situation on their team, and for a player they would have zero chance of resigning.

Good find. I had no idea. Howard is such a prima donna though.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think so. I think they were willing to part ways with him because they came to grips with the fact that he is mentally soft. I think he's always been mentally soft and he always will be.

Watch him. Watch his behavior when he does something wrong such as miss an easy shot. In addition to the histrionics he goes through he often changes his approach for his next shots. He stops taking easy shots and only takes those ballet hook shots that rarely fall. When they go in, he looks like Olajuwon, when they miss, he looks like any other basketball player faced with a tough shot. He's too worried about his image. He has worlds of talent and he's not soft the way most "soft" players are. He's willing to bang and brawl, he's just afraid of looking bad.

Anyway, we disagree but we arrive at similar conclusions. He is soft - I just think it's between the ears.

Steve

I think it would be more accurate to say that Suns fans are overrating Gortat less now than when he first arrived. He's the same player. In particular, people on this board have been complaining about his fear of the rim ever since he showed up in Phoenix.

I certainly think both arguments are valid. My theory was based upon my observation that Gortat just seemed to play softer every year since his arrival in Phoenix. I may have been giving Howard too much credit in toughening up Gortat. However, I still feel Gortat has regressed and I was trying to find a cause. If Gortat was the same player now as he was then, it would explain a lot.

 

[Phrazbit]

I certainly think both arguments are valid. My theory was based upon my observation that Gortat just seemed to play softer every year since his arrival in Phoenix. I may have been giving Howard too much credit in toughening up Gortat. However, I still feel Gortat has regressed and I was trying to find a cause. If Gortat was the same player now as he was then, it would explain a lot.

Steve Nash. That is why Gortat regressed. Its why almost everyone regressed after leaving the Suns for about 6 years there.