A little perspective on DeAndre Ayton

[Dr. Jones]

In what world is JJJ better than Deandre Ayton, or is this just the basketball version of your Kyler Murray argument?

Same concept but different points.

JJJ is so much better on defense you can't even compare them. Plus he is already draining 3s at a 35% clip on over 2.5 attempts per game.

Ayton will never.... I repeat never be a better defender than JJJ.

I do think Ayton could be better overall as their careers mature...
But passing on Luka will look really bad for the next 10 years atleast.

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[SirStefan32]

Same concept but different points.

JJJ is so much better on defense you can't even compare them. Plus he is already draining 3s at a 35% clip on over 2.5 attempts per game.

Ayton will never.... I repeat never be a better defender than JJJ.

I do think Ayton could be better overall as their careers mature...
But passing on Luka will look really bad for the next 10 years atleast.

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I suspect you are right, but it will take 2-3 years for Ayton to develop. As far as rookie centers go, Ayton is having himself a very nice season. I do agree that he will never be the defender that JJJ is. No question about that.

 

[Dr. Jones]

In what world is JJJ better than Deandre Ayton, or is this just the basketball version of your Kyler Murray argument?

How they are connected is this:

I truly feel the NFL & the NBA have made transitions over the past half decade. Rule changes in both sports have favored offenses, mitigated injury risks, and almost hamstrung defenses from being truly dominant for long periods of time.

With that being said,

the NBA has very little proof that a dominant low post center can truly reach a level of dominance as has been shown in the past. the game is faster, more well spaced, and more focused on the 3 point line than ever before.

Because of this, if your 5 cant defend a pick and roll, while also collapsing into the paint to help defend during rotations, your entire plan will be ruined as coaches scheme their offenses to defeat you.

If Ayton doesn't become a MUCH better defender, we will be at an instant disadvantage on defense that will be hard to overcome in a motion offense that favors 3 pointers over mid-range jumpers and post play. Which is all we can expect from DA right now.

All of this will not change no matter how efficient he is on offense.

As far as the NFL.... I have said it over and over. The game is changing everywhere..... the question is, how fast will you change with it.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I suspect you are right, but it will take 2-3 years for Ayton to develop. As far as rookie centers go, Ayton is having himself a very nice season. I do agree that he will never be the defender that JJJ is. No question about that.

And JJJ is an animal. He has a Josh Jackson level of attitude on the court. I love that fire.

Ayton is way too soft IMO. And you cant teach that crap, you either have it or you dont.

 

[Raindog]

It's hard to say about Ayton's personality and how it will affect his future development.

Olajuwon was a pretty quiet, almost seemingly deferential personality coming into the league... and never really changed from that. Same with Robert Parish - in fact, that was the knock on him that got him shipped out to Boston. Both of them of course became deadly as their careers went on.

David Robinson was one of the nicest guys to ever don an NBA uniform. It didn't seem to hurt his career.

Conversely, Patrick Ewing came into the league with a reputation as a mean SOB, fierce defender, and backboard eating rebounder. The concern with him was if he would become an effective offensive presence. And as it played out, his entire NBA career was the reverse. He ended up being something of a mediocre defender and rebounder for his size and rep, and a relatively effective, though finesse-based, offensive player.

You really just don't know how personality will impact highly athletic big men in a sport where just being BIG and ATHLETIC can have such an enormous advantage.

 

[Raindog]

This. The whole “ go set three picks and catch my my missed shot” offense shows that he’s not utilized properly. I think in a typical PnR offense, Ayton would easily be a 25/12 guy this season. The way he’s being used is complete lunacy.

I agree with you 100%. What the Suns' coaching staff is doing so far with Ayton borders on imbecilic.

 

[TJ]

And JJJ is an animal. He has a Josh Jackson level of attitude on the court. I love that fire.

Ayton is way too soft IMO. And you cant teach that crap, you either have it or you dont.

Go watch UofA @ Oregon from last season and tell me he’s soft.

I’ve said that I think Ayton’s weakness is he’s overthinking while on the court; for example, pump faking a half dozen times before going up for a dunk or a layup.

And for a rookie with no clearly-defined role by the coach, a fixable mental block, and the second or third scoring option on the team, 16/11/2 is pretty impressive.

 

[SirStefan32]

I see what Dr. Jones is saying. There is something to that. I just can't declare Ayton to be what is is right now. Big Centers take time to develop. Ayton has some red flags, as Dr. Jones pointed out, but for a big man rookie his age, he is actually very advanced. I just cannot believe that what Ayton is right now is what he will be two or three years from now. Is he ever going to be a defensive stopper? No, absolutely not. Can he become better on defense? Absolutely? Will he learn rotations? Absolutely! As he learns to post up and roll better, he will get more shots, and as he gets more shots, he will turn into a 24-28 points per game scorer. You just can't take a big Center who is barely 20 and assume that he is a finished product.

 

[1Sun]

The key with Ayton, as it is with the rest of the team, is developing him properly and putting him in a position to succeed.

That cannot happen with Igor Kokoskov as head coach and with no point guard or power forward.

Those three items need to be addressed and fixed ASAP.

 

[Matt L]

Agreed..... the whole story reveals that JJJ & Luka have so far, been better IMO.

Now all of this can change but his defense is still so horribly bad. Coaching or not..... He doesn't even have the instincts to play the position correctly. Sitting in DC watching that backup retread center almost score 30.... meanwhile Beal is rarely challenged when around the bucket.

The kid can put up stats. But as of now..... they are tragically empty.

Plus.... As I have said since before the draft....... The NBA is moving far away from the days of a dominant low post scorer. We need transcendent ball handlers.

I think your last point is a good one

 

[Sunstroke]

Heavy duty weight training this off season with a mad calorie intake and he can bring that 20 lbs of added muscle into the 2019- 2020 season. He'll be fine as long as someone on that bench gives him the ball and the suit on the bench calls out plays for him. I still believe the Suns made the right choice last June. Go Ayton! Go Suns!

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Heavy duty weight training this off season with a mad calorie intake and he can bring that 20 lbs of added muscle into the 2019- 2020 season. He'll be fine as long as someone on that bench gives him the ball and the suit on the bench calls out plays for him. I still believe the Suns made the right choice last June. Go Ayton! Go Suns!

Agreed, but 20 lbs might be a bit much. I would rather he just focus on getting stronger and improving his conditioning. It might be hard to improve the latter while also packing on 20 lbs.

 

[Sunstroke]

Agreed, but 20 lbs might be a bit much. I would rather he just focus on getting stronger and improving his conditioning. It might be hard to improve the latter while also packing on 20 lbs.

You're right, 20 lbs may be too much an probably unattainable at his young age. He'll fill out in the next few years naturally. He should still continue or start a weight program under qualified trainers, imo, ofc. Improved conditioning will be great too, especially the way he covers ground so quickly on the floor.

 

[95pro]

You know who needs to hit the weights? Booker, the guy has been in the league 4 years now and barely showing any type of muscle tone improvement. Now the injuries are coming around, they could be related. Ayton will be fine.

 

[Western Font]

Ayton isn’t going to turn into Mutombo and block balls into the seats while wagging his finger. Hopefully he’ll be matter-of-factly altering shots and getting up he court.

 

[slinslin]

The Suns need to change their style of play.

They have a possibly / likely dominant big man. Yet they try to play as fast as anyone and shoot as many 3s as anyone despite being the worst 3pt shooting team and inept fastbreak team.

I cringe sometimes when I see them pull up for shots early in the shotclock when Ayton is barely across mid court unless the shot is truly wide open.

 

[slinslin]

You know who needs to hit the weights? Booker, the guy has been in the league 4 years now and barely showing any type of muscle tone improvement. Now the injuries are coming around, they could be related. Ayton will be fine.

Well I wondered many times if the Suns have terrible strength coaches.

Josh Jackson is also still weak AF.

Can you name a single Suns player in the last 20 years that made noticeable improvements in terms of body/strength?

 

[Chaplin]

Well I wondered many times if the Suns have terrible strength coaches.

Josh Jackson is also still weak AF.

Can you name a single Suns player in the last 20 years that made noticeable improvements in terms of body/strength?

Markieff Morris? Maybe?

 

[95pro]

Man we've had some untoned guys, Dudley, Diaw, now Booker.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well I wondered many times if the Suns have terrible strength coaches.

Josh Jackson is also still weak AF.

Can you name a single Suns player in the last 20 years that made noticeable improvements in terms of body/strength?

I've started wondering the same thing, focusing a lot on JJ. He definitely has the frame to put a little more beef on while not losing his quickness, yet he looks exactly the same as he did last season. i expected him to be a little bigger, able to bang a little better.

 

[Phrazbit]

Ironically I remember someone posting a pick of Booker this summer working out and a debate about if he's adding too much bulk ensuing.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ironically I remember someone posting a pick of Booker this summer working out and a debate about if he's adding too much bulk ensuing.

It's more ignorance than irony. Booker was in great shape but constant injuries of the type you really can't exercise through have left him soft and a little overweight. The idea that it's a lack of focus on his part or poor training on the Suns part is just uninformed nonsense IMO.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Markieff Morris? Maybe?

My answer would have been Devin Booker until the injuries and rehabs took their toll.

 

[SirStefan32]

Interesting article here: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/...-his-game-as-his-rookie-season-moves-forward/

I don't like how defensive he is about his defense. Not sure if he just doesn't see it or if he is just really insecure about it.
Loved the last paragraph though!

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

You know who needs to hit the weights? Booker, the guy has been in the league 4 years now and barely showing any type of muscle tone improvement. Now the injuries are coming around, they could be related. Ayton will be fine.

I disagree with this. Not everyone shows a high amount of muscle tone, but Booker is pretty strong for a SG.