RugbyMuffin
ASFN IDOL
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2003
- Posts
- 30,485
- Reaction score
- 4,876
Happy New Years to all.
So much is going to happen in the next couple weeks. Too much. But, for any sick in the head football nut, it will be great. Lots to talk about, lots to analyze.
So, with that in mind, lets put the last era to bed.
Whiz, Graves, and all those who started 2013 not part of the Cardinals:
The coverage, and dialogue about this news has been awesome. Really. The board, from what I read, has been debating, talking, and analyzing the situation to no end. Good Stuff.
Personally, it could not be a better time to have diversified opinions, and out looks. I cannot sit here and say those who wanted to keep Whiz are absolutely wrong, and they have no grounds to want to keep him around. He did bring this team to the Super Bowl. He did have a system, he had a routine, he won some big games, and he had success. Remember at one point Whiz had AZ in the palm of his hand. It was "In Whiz we Trust".
That being said, you cannot say the Cardinals did not have a reason to fire Whiz, and clean house. You simply cannot do your job so poorly. You just can't. Losing streaks of six or more in three straight seasons. Never put together a good line, never got a QB to play even marginally well, Kolb being the debatable part of that statement, and his QB's seemed to get worse. Not to mention we all forget about the blow outs. In his earlier years, up until the 2nd half of last year (2011), the Cardinals would get their doors blown off every 4 games or so. Not to mention his inability to change when needed. Unlike, say Horton, who has a new depth chart weekly based on how his players are producing, Whiz would stick with things that are not working on Sunday for 3 or 4 weeks too long.
The biggest question I have about Whiz, looking back, was: Is he as good a coach as everyone has been talking about ? I feel like this is AZ letting Jake Plummer leave for free agency all over again. To be fair, many analysts, fans, and news outlets, who deem Whiz a good coach, also talk about how they can't blame the Cardinals for letting him go. Yet, there is still a good group of people that very much believe that Whiz is a good football coach.
I respect that opinion. I cannot buy into it though. If he is so good then why did he lose so much ? If he was such a good coach then why are so many people saying "Whiz would be good if only he had an elite QB, better offensive line, etc., etc., etc." If he is a good head coach then he takes care of those situations, and in the modern day NFL, if cannot take 3 years to sort these things out. Cause if you don't, you will be fired. Don't believe me ? Look at Andy Reid, Norv Turner, and Lovie Smith. All fired for the same reason, all coached at their respective teams for a LONG time.
Though I will be completely immersed in what the Cardinals are doing, I will be keeping an eye on Whiz, for strict curiousity reasons. Going all the way back to Pittsburgh, why was he let go there ? I remember there was some friction between Big Ben and Whiz..... I mean there is your HOF QB right there in Big Ben and there seemed to be a problem. I digress.... The point is, I am interested in how the QB will perform in Whiz's next gig.
As it stands: 01/01/2013. Ken Whizenhunt has been fired. More shocklingly ? ROD GRAVES has been fired. All I have known is Rod Graves for as far as I can remember........never thought that would have happened.
Change is coming. For a Cardinal fan ? That is nerve racking. Cause some of the best things I have read about on this board over the last few days has to do with the anxiety of the change that is coming.
I am not happy about the situation. Of course I would have been very happy to see Whiz stay, and last season to end 8-8 with some success sprinkled in. Change brings hope, but it also brings change. This is the Cardinals and they can do worse than last year, when it comes to failure, there is no depth this organization will not experience. It sucks, but history has dictated so.
When it comes down to it. I can't see how you cannot make the change. I just can't. I am not confident the change will be for the better, but I also lost all faith in Whiz, and the current regime. I didn't see a coach that could turn things around.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will make two personal statements before I move on:
A. I am not a fan that believes this is no longer "The Same Ol' Cardinals".
B. I am a fan that is WELL AWARE of the coaching carousel that the Cardinals have been known for.
1. Change is a risk. No matter what, when you change things they can be for the better or for the worse. As a fan, our demands, are for a better coach. As one poster put it, "you don't want to trade in your Mustang for a Yugo." As fans that is what we should all be saying. No doubt. The reality? Scary. Whiz is the best coach that has been in AZ for a couple reasons. Not saying that is good or bad, but that is water mark as it stands.
What is really scary ? The Cardinals just fired one of the coaches they have employed for a longest period of time in their history. This franchise is known for going through coaches. Which is a two fold problem: One is that it shows that the Cardinals are very good at picking a coach, and two is that it shows that if history has taught us something about the Cardinals it is that, it can be a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time before we see success again. We will see but based on history, this is a really scary situation.
2. From the first point, and can piggy back this next topic. A poster wrote that NO ONE from the current front office should be brought back to make personell decisions. A good quote, yet like all us fans, and analysts, we don't know the "in's" and "out's" of the situations.
What I would want to know:
- Whose decision was it to sign Adam Snyder for 5 years ?
- Whose decision was it to sign Daryn Colledge for 5 years ?
- Whose decision was it to sign Stewart Bradley (besides mine
)?
- Whose decisions was it to keep Max Hall, Derek Anderson, and John Skelton ?
- Who analysed Kevin Kolb and thought him good enough for not only the trade but the ridiculous contract that went with it ?
- Who thought, back in Feb. 2012, that the offensive line that we began the preseason with, was good enough ?
- Who thought Beanie Wells was the right pick ? Michael Floyd ? Cody Brown ? Buster Davis ? Alan Branch (trade up) ? Calvin Pace/Bryant Johnson? Levi Brown ? Early Doucet ? Ryan Williams ?
For all the success that Whiz had, the organization did a really good job of throwing a wet blanket on the momentum that was coming off the 2009 season. That falls on the heads of people that are not Ken Whizenhunt. Whiz has a lot of blame for the failure we have seen, but he was not alone. There are some horrific, horrific personell moves, decisions, and failures that cost Whiz his job, cost the organization momentum, and made this fan believe that this current 2012 version of the Arizona Cardinals are in fact still "Same ol' Cardinals". In 2009 they had shed that label to the point where all they had to do is unstick the last section of that label off the big toe, and a new era would begin in AZ. Warner retires, Boldin is traded, Dansby leaves, Mike Gandy is replaced, Deuce Lutui regresses and is benched, and the 2010 Cardinals go out to St. Louis, 32 million under the cap, and put together a season that eliminates that momentum, success, and puts the label right back on the franchise that it wanted to shed so badly. They gave newer fans a taste of the royal screw job of 1999.
This is not your "Same ol' Cardinals" ? How so ? This is not like Howard Stern when he claim himself "The King of all Media", and then the name just stuck because he kept saying it. Michael Bidwill doesn't want to be the laughing stock, "Same ol' Cardinals" ? Then do something about it, and part of it is swallowing your damn pride, and allowing the people who know what to do, do what they do. Michael Bidwill is a HUGE question mark right now. There is no doubt he is in charge. None. Is he the next Jerry Jones ? I dunno, but too much meddling gets you what the Cowboys have.
Point is, did we get rid of the right people, or the wrong people ? Don't know, but we will see.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for the future ? To be honest, as I get older, life gets busier, it just does. I don't have the pulse on the league like I used to, and I am not a college football fan. I watch college from time to time, but I am not rooted in it.
So, who is the next head coach ? Who is the next GM ?
I want to say Keim, and see Licht stick around.......but to be honest ? That is complete speculation. What if Keim is the guy that thought Adam Snyder was the answer ? What if Licht was pounding on the table for Kevin Kolb ? What if Keim was a like "Beanie Wells is the next Jim Brown!" and Licht was all like "Max Hall is the next Drew Brees."
So, went it comes to future ? I am taking a wait and see attitude, and that is on all fronts. Cause the biggest dissappointment of Whiz coming to AZ, was the assumption of smash mouth football coming to the desert......and it never came.
I would love to see a zone blocking scheme be brought to the desert. Seems to work well in the NFL these days. IF we can keep the defense we have somewhat together, and just get a running game, we will compete immediately, IMO.
What I would not like to see ? Andy Reid. I live in the Philly suburbs. Reid is a mirror of Whiz. When Whiz lost Warner, he was lost. When Reid lost Tre Thomas and John Runyan he was lost.
Reid's "system".....yep, another "system", requires.....wait for it....a certain type of offensive lineman that you cannot find in the NFL anymore, at least not five of them. Not to mention his play calling is atrocious, 100% atrocious. The guy has baggage, and again, since McNabb left, and most importantly, one Jim Johnson passed away, and the defensive powerhouse the Eagles used to be became a HORRIBLE defense, what has Reid done ?
Answer? Not much.
So again what would I like to see happen ?
Ray Horton to Head Coach
Offensive coordinator with a zone blocking background.
As for a GM ? I dunno. I will let the others that do a good job of discussion and analysis take on that, and learn with the rest of you.
Look forward to the discussions coming in 2013, and the belief that Michael Bidwill will do the right thing.
So much is going to happen in the next couple weeks. Too much. But, for any sick in the head football nut, it will be great. Lots to talk about, lots to analyze.
So, with that in mind, lets put the last era to bed.
Whiz, Graves, and all those who started 2013 not part of the Cardinals:
The coverage, and dialogue about this news has been awesome. Really. The board, from what I read, has been debating, talking, and analyzing the situation to no end. Good Stuff.
Personally, it could not be a better time to have diversified opinions, and out looks. I cannot sit here and say those who wanted to keep Whiz are absolutely wrong, and they have no grounds to want to keep him around. He did bring this team to the Super Bowl. He did have a system, he had a routine, he won some big games, and he had success. Remember at one point Whiz had AZ in the palm of his hand. It was "In Whiz we Trust".
That being said, you cannot say the Cardinals did not have a reason to fire Whiz, and clean house. You simply cannot do your job so poorly. You just can't. Losing streaks of six or more in three straight seasons. Never put together a good line, never got a QB to play even marginally well, Kolb being the debatable part of that statement, and his QB's seemed to get worse. Not to mention we all forget about the blow outs. In his earlier years, up until the 2nd half of last year (2011), the Cardinals would get their doors blown off every 4 games or so. Not to mention his inability to change when needed. Unlike, say Horton, who has a new depth chart weekly based on how his players are producing, Whiz would stick with things that are not working on Sunday for 3 or 4 weeks too long.
The biggest question I have about Whiz, looking back, was: Is he as good a coach as everyone has been talking about ? I feel like this is AZ letting Jake Plummer leave for free agency all over again. To be fair, many analysts, fans, and news outlets, who deem Whiz a good coach, also talk about how they can't blame the Cardinals for letting him go. Yet, there is still a good group of people that very much believe that Whiz is a good football coach.
I respect that opinion. I cannot buy into it though. If he is so good then why did he lose so much ? If he was such a good coach then why are so many people saying "Whiz would be good if only he had an elite QB, better offensive line, etc., etc., etc." If he is a good head coach then he takes care of those situations, and in the modern day NFL, if cannot take 3 years to sort these things out. Cause if you don't, you will be fired. Don't believe me ? Look at Andy Reid, Norv Turner, and Lovie Smith. All fired for the same reason, all coached at their respective teams for a LONG time.
Though I will be completely immersed in what the Cardinals are doing, I will be keeping an eye on Whiz, for strict curiousity reasons. Going all the way back to Pittsburgh, why was he let go there ? I remember there was some friction between Big Ben and Whiz..... I mean there is your HOF QB right there in Big Ben and there seemed to be a problem. I digress.... The point is, I am interested in how the QB will perform in Whiz's next gig.
As it stands: 01/01/2013. Ken Whizenhunt has been fired. More shocklingly ? ROD GRAVES has been fired. All I have known is Rod Graves for as far as I can remember........never thought that would have happened.
Change is coming. For a Cardinal fan ? That is nerve racking. Cause some of the best things I have read about on this board over the last few days has to do with the anxiety of the change that is coming.
I am not happy about the situation. Of course I would have been very happy to see Whiz stay, and last season to end 8-8 with some success sprinkled in. Change brings hope, but it also brings change. This is the Cardinals and they can do worse than last year, when it comes to failure, there is no depth this organization will not experience. It sucks, but history has dictated so.
When it comes down to it. I can't see how you cannot make the change. I just can't. I am not confident the change will be for the better, but I also lost all faith in Whiz, and the current regime. I didn't see a coach that could turn things around.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will make two personal statements before I move on:
A. I am not a fan that believes this is no longer "The Same Ol' Cardinals".
B. I am a fan that is WELL AWARE of the coaching carousel that the Cardinals have been known for.
1. Change is a risk. No matter what, when you change things they can be for the better or for the worse. As a fan, our demands, are for a better coach. As one poster put it, "you don't want to trade in your Mustang for a Yugo." As fans that is what we should all be saying. No doubt. The reality? Scary. Whiz is the best coach that has been in AZ for a couple reasons. Not saying that is good or bad, but that is water mark as it stands.
What is really scary ? The Cardinals just fired one of the coaches they have employed for a longest period of time in their history. This franchise is known for going through coaches. Which is a two fold problem: One is that it shows that the Cardinals are very good at picking a coach, and two is that it shows that if history has taught us something about the Cardinals it is that, it can be a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time before we see success again. We will see but based on history, this is a really scary situation.
2. From the first point, and can piggy back this next topic. A poster wrote that NO ONE from the current front office should be brought back to make personell decisions. A good quote, yet like all us fans, and analysts, we don't know the "in's" and "out's" of the situations.
What I would want to know:
- Whose decision was it to sign Adam Snyder for 5 years ?
- Whose decision was it to sign Daryn Colledge for 5 years ?
- Whose decision was it to sign Stewart Bradley (besides mine
)?- Whose decisions was it to keep Max Hall, Derek Anderson, and John Skelton ?
- Who analysed Kevin Kolb and thought him good enough for not only the trade but the ridiculous contract that went with it ?
- Who thought, back in Feb. 2012, that the offensive line that we began the preseason with, was good enough ?
- Who thought Beanie Wells was the right pick ? Michael Floyd ? Cody Brown ? Buster Davis ? Alan Branch (trade up) ? Calvin Pace/Bryant Johnson? Levi Brown ? Early Doucet ? Ryan Williams ?
For all the success that Whiz had, the organization did a really good job of throwing a wet blanket on the momentum that was coming off the 2009 season. That falls on the heads of people that are not Ken Whizenhunt. Whiz has a lot of blame for the failure we have seen, but he was not alone. There are some horrific, horrific personell moves, decisions, and failures that cost Whiz his job, cost the organization momentum, and made this fan believe that this current 2012 version of the Arizona Cardinals are in fact still "Same ol' Cardinals". In 2009 they had shed that label to the point where all they had to do is unstick the last section of that label off the big toe, and a new era would begin in AZ. Warner retires, Boldin is traded, Dansby leaves, Mike Gandy is replaced, Deuce Lutui regresses and is benched, and the 2010 Cardinals go out to St. Louis, 32 million under the cap, and put together a season that eliminates that momentum, success, and puts the label right back on the franchise that it wanted to shed so badly. They gave newer fans a taste of the royal screw job of 1999.
This is not your "Same ol' Cardinals" ? How so ? This is not like Howard Stern when he claim himself "The King of all Media", and then the name just stuck because he kept saying it. Michael Bidwill doesn't want to be the laughing stock, "Same ol' Cardinals" ? Then do something about it, and part of it is swallowing your damn pride, and allowing the people who know what to do, do what they do. Michael Bidwill is a HUGE question mark right now. There is no doubt he is in charge. None. Is he the next Jerry Jones ? I dunno, but too much meddling gets you what the Cowboys have.
Point is, did we get rid of the right people, or the wrong people ? Don't know, but we will see.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for the future ? To be honest, as I get older, life gets busier, it just does. I don't have the pulse on the league like I used to, and I am not a college football fan. I watch college from time to time, but I am not rooted in it.
So, who is the next head coach ? Who is the next GM ?
I want to say Keim, and see Licht stick around.......but to be honest ? That is complete speculation. What if Keim is the guy that thought Adam Snyder was the answer ? What if Licht was pounding on the table for Kevin Kolb ? What if Keim was a like "Beanie Wells is the next Jim Brown!" and Licht was all like "Max Hall is the next Drew Brees."
So, went it comes to future ? I am taking a wait and see attitude, and that is on all fronts. Cause the biggest dissappointment of Whiz coming to AZ, was the assumption of smash mouth football coming to the desert......and it never came.
I would love to see a zone blocking scheme be brought to the desert. Seems to work well in the NFL these days. IF we can keep the defense we have somewhat together, and just get a running game, we will compete immediately, IMO.
What I would not like to see ? Andy Reid. I live in the Philly suburbs. Reid is a mirror of Whiz. When Whiz lost Warner, he was lost. When Reid lost Tre Thomas and John Runyan he was lost.
Reid's "system".....yep, another "system", requires.....wait for it....a certain type of offensive lineman that you cannot find in the NFL anymore, at least not five of them. Not to mention his play calling is atrocious, 100% atrocious. The guy has baggage, and again, since McNabb left, and most importantly, one Jim Johnson passed away, and the defensive powerhouse the Eagles used to be became a HORRIBLE defense, what has Reid done ?
Answer? Not much.
So again what would I like to see happen ?
Ray Horton to Head Coach
Offensive coordinator with a zone blocking background.
As for a GM ? I dunno. I will let the others that do a good job of discussion and analysis take on that, and learn with the rest of you.
Look forward to the discussions coming in 2013, and the belief that Michael Bidwill will do the right thing.
