The 2019-2020 Around the NBA thread

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yeah, I was really high on Luka, watched him a lot the previous year (before the draft), but I had no idea he would be this good. I honestly thought what he did last year would have been something he would eventually become, after 4-5 years in the league. No reasonable person could know that he could get into the paint and get a step-back three as easily as he's been doing it. He just should not be able to do the crap he does against NBA competition.

I honestly thought he would be about as good in his rookie year as he was. It was the 2nd year jump that I really wasn't expecting. Figured his prime would be a little less impressive than he has been this year. I think I underestimated just how much the current style of play and current rules would benefit Doncic's game. He would still be an awesome player in any era, but his numbers had his 2nd year been 10 years ago would probably be more like 25/8/7 and would line up pretty much with what I thought his prime numbers would be.

 

[Mainstreet]

Kellan Olson‏Verified account @KellanOlson


De'Anthony Melton with 16-9-4 in 25 minutes for the Grizzlies tonight. Nice to see him getting some run while Ja Morant heals up.

8:39 PM - 2 Dec 2019

 

[CRC83]

You mean like three lead Point Guards competing with each other?

Or no lead Point Guard on the roster?

Or two Power Forwards drafted and fighting for the starting position?

Look where that got us! The need for balance cannot be overlooked.

Especially when you also take poor defense into account.

I'd rather see the Suns become a playoff contender for the first time
in a decade than draft a potential All Star who puts up numbers.

Doncic would have neutralized Booker to some degree. That is not a
100% gain.

Ayton will not. If he plays his position well, that is a 100% roster gain.

First off, I don’t think anyone could have predicted how good Doncic would be. However, in my opinion, you should always draft a generational talent like that over positional need. I hope we picked Ayton because we believed he was the better player regardless of the position he plays.

Would you have drafted Olajuwon over Jordan if your team needed a big (knowing what we know now)? And currently the gap between Doncic and Ayton is much greater than Jordan and Olajuwon.

As of right now it is clear we made the wrong decision, along with Sacramento and Atlanta. We can only hope that Ayton comes back and turns into a dominate/generational player himself. I’ll be rooting for him!

 

[SirStefan32]

But drafts are crap shoots. It was perfectly reasonable to pick Ayton over Doncic.

 

[Finito]

Dude NOBODY though Luka would be this good. Remember he was even traded on draft night. There were plenty of questions about him. Limited athleticism, there was thought to be a ceiling on his upside.

Ayton is pretty damn good I’d rather have Ayton over Bagley or Young.

 

[Hoop Head]

First off, I don’t think anyone could have predicted how good Doncic would be. However, in my opinion, you should always draft a generational talent like that over positional need. I hope we picked Ayton because we believed he was the better player regardless of the position he plays.

Would you have drafted Olajuwon over Jordan if your team needed a big (knowing what we know now)? And currently the gap between Doncic and Ayton is much greater than Jordan and Olajuwon.

As of right now it is clear we made the wrong decision, along with Sacramento and Atlanta. We can only hope that Ayton comes back and turns into a dominate/generational player himself. I’ll be rooting for him!

If Ayton can be Hakeem and lead the Suns to 2 titles then I don't give a damn if those titles are sandwiched between Doncic 3 peats. Of course making it through that first 3 peat would be hard but that first title would make it worthwhile. Ayton needs to make sure he's not Sam Bowie.

 

[GatorAZ]

Would you have drafted Olajuwon over Jordan if your team needed a center?

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[BC867]

Would you have drafted Olajuwon over Jordan if your team needed a big (knowing what we know now)?

That is an impossible question to answer. Would I have done then, knowing what I know now?

Perhaps if we had Rocky & Bullwinkle's wayback machine. Or could go Back to the Future.

It still comes down to . . . as a #1 pick, who would best fill the needs of the Suns?

My belief, as I've posted (even knowing what we know now) is that having two high scoring/
distributing/no defense alphas on the team with no dominant Center or Power Forward (as
we've had since Game 2, considering Baynes' injuries) . . .

. . . going with the consensus #1 pick, Deandre Ayton, was the right move for the Suns to
become a perennial playoff factor, rather than two hot Wings with super individual stats.

Drafting Doncic would mean that we would not have Ayton, Rubio or Oubre filling the
Center, Point Guard, and Small Forward positions in the starting lineup (that we will
have when Ayton becomes eligible). Leaving us needing just a strong Power Forward
to share the Big Man duties in the starting lineup with Ayton.

With just two Finals appearances in 50+ seasons (and one of them a Cinderella season),
I was happy to see the Suns abandon what has been the team approach during that time.
Primarily, backcourt and Wing players putting up individual stats, with a few exceptions.

My response is to your question -- what would I have done knowing what we know now?
What we did! That is my opinion. If Luca Doncic gets Dallas a ring (as Tyson Chandler did
for them, filling the missing piece at Center) . . . aha, they obtained a Center to get their
championship. Let's just see if a Forward playing the Point can do the same for them.

 

[AzStevenCal]

...With just two Finals appearances in 50+ seasons (and one of them a Cinderella season),

That's at least the second time you've said something like this and I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. Are you trying to suggest that our first finals trip was flukish? If so, I would have to disagree. If you just look at the wins and losses I could see how someone could come to that conclusion but that 42-40 record doesn't tell the whole story.

We struggled early but finished very strongly and had (I believe) the best record in the league over the last couple months or so of the season. Besides the obvious improvement from our rookie center and newly acquired Paul Westphal adjusting to our system (and to playing heavy minutes) we also seriously upgraded the PF position by trading Shumate for Gar Heard.

We were probably a little awestruck when we faced the Celtics in the finals but that incredible series against the defending champion Warriors was eye opening for a lot of doubters around the league.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If Ayton can be Hakeem and lead the Suns to 2 titles then I don't give a damn if those titles are sandwiched between Doncic 3 peats. Of course making it through that first 3 peat would be hard but that first title would make it worthwhile. Ayton needs to make sure he's not Sam Bowie.

Are we guaranteed Doncic will go play baseball for two years and give Ayton that opportunity?

 

[Hoop Head]

Are we guaranteed Doncic will go play baseball for two years and give Ayton that opportunity?

No, he'll go play soccer.

 

[CRC83]

That is an impossible question to answer. Would I have done then, knowing what I know now?

Perhaps if we had Rocky & Bullwinkle's wayback machine. Or could go Back to the Future.

It still comes down to . . . as a #1 pick, who would best fill the needs of the Suns?

My belief, as I've posted (even knowing what we know now) is that having two high scoring/
distributing/no defense alphas on the team with no dominant Center or Power Forward (as
we've had since Game 2, considering Baynes' injuries) . . .

. . . going with the consensus #1 pick, Deandre Ayton, was the right move for the Suns to
become a perennial playoff factor, rather than two hot Wings with super individual stats.

Drafting Doncic would mean that we would not have Ayton, Rubio or Oubre filling the
Center, Point Guard, and Small Forward positions in the starting lineup (that we will
have when Ayton becomes eligible). Leaving us needing just a strong Power Forward
to share the Big Man duties in the starting lineup with Ayton.

With just two Finals appearances in 50+ seasons (and one of them a Cinderella season),
I was happy to see the Suns abandon what has been the team approach during that time.
Primarily, backcourt and Wing players putting up individual stats, with a few exceptions.

My response is to your question -- what would I have done knowing what we know now?
What we did! That is my opinion. If Luca Doncic gets Dallas a ring (as Tyson Chandler did
for them, filling the missing piece at Center) . . . aha, they obtained a Center to get their
championship. Let's just see if a Forward playing the Point can do the same for them.

When you were as bad as the suns were last year you are not searching for that final piece at center (like Tyson Chandler as you mention). You draft the best player, period. Now, assuming the suns believed Ayton was the best player, they made the right pick at the time.

I am saying it appears to be the wrong pick based on what we know now. If you could have Ayton or Doncic right now, I imagine every single GM would pick Doncic...regardless of what their positional needs are.

 

[95pro]

It's always BPA.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It's always BPA.

The difference between the Jordan draft and this one was that everyone knew Jordan was the BPA, no one knew that in the Doncic/Ayton draft.

Look. In the end, you have to draft good players. If you do that you will have a good team. Rarely, rarely, do you draft what will eventually be the best player available at the moment. Hindsight. Hindsight.

Its really time to move on.

 

[JCSunsfan]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiret...d-Command-$25M-$30M-Per-Season-In-Free-Agency

 

[Phrazbit]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiret...d-Command-$25M-$30M-Per-Season-In-Free-Agency

I wanted the Suns to go after him in the summer of 2018. He is a good player, I'm surprised no one snagged him away back then, or at least forced the Raptors to pay up.

 

[GatorAZ]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

You just shouldn’t be able to score 50 that way.

 

[BC867]

You just shouldn’t be able to score 50 that way.

50 points on 29% and 20% shooting. But 24 out of 24 free throws.

Maybe the defense should be instructed to not be within 5 feet of Harden when he shoots.

29% and 20% with no free throws. "Hey, put him on the bench!"

Please don't hit me with logic that he may make more shots if not defended.
He's so used to flopping, he wouldn't know what to do.

 

[GatorAZ]

You just shouldn’t be able to score 50 that way.

Ive been a Harden hater but I’m starting lean the opposite direction. Everyone knows what he’s going to do yet it doesn’t matter. He still goes off... Not necessarily this performance but in general. Obviously he needs to do it in the playoffs though.

 

[gimpy]

To me, just shows how bad the refereeing is.

 

[Bobster]

You take away the 24 FTA and that's 26 points on 38 FGA.

And yes, I know it's impossible to not take one with the other.

 

[Hoop Head]

You take away the 24 FTA and that's 26 points on 38 FGA.

And yes, I know it's impossible to not take one with the other.

I think that percentage tells you how much he tries to create contact rather than look for good shots. No chance would anyone like Nash, Curry, Dirk, or even KD had a game like that because they wouldn't take that many shots if they weren't hitting.

I listed those guys because all were MVP's and considered good shooters, like some have said Harden is. He may have been at one time but he's not anymore.

 

[Mainstreet]

How did the referees not count Harden's dunk?

It's as clear as can be.

"When the play happened, Harden goes in for a dunk, and then the ball appears to us to pop back through the net," crew chief James Capers told a pool reporter. "When that happens, that is basket interference. To have a successful field goal, it must clear the net. We have since come in here and looked at the play. He dunked it so hard that the net carried it back over the rim a second time, so in fact it did clear the net and should have been a successful field goal.

"As to could the play have been reviewed, it is a reviewable matter, but you have a window of 30 seconds to challenge the play during that timeout that he had and while they were protesting the call, trying to get clarification of it, that window passed. So therefore, it elapsed, and they were not able to do it."

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28222229/rockets-hopeful-nba-acts-james-harden-dunk-not-counted

 

[GatorAZ]

I think that percentage tells you how much he tries to create contact rather than look for good shots. No chance would anyone like Nash, Curry, Dirk, or even KD had a game like that because they wouldn't take that many shots if they weren't hitting.

I listed those guys because all were MVP's and considered good shooters, like some have said Harden is. He may have been at one time but he's not anymore.

It was not an efficient performance but on the season he’s averaging 15 more points than shots. There’s never been a gap that wide by a guard.

They’re 1st in PPG and 3rd in ORtg. Without him they’re one of the worst teams in the league. He’s incredible.