Why the Cards’ Zone Defense Fails

[Harry]

Every NFL team plays a zone pass defense at times. Weak teams tend to play it more. The Cards zone has been continuously ineffective for quite some time. What’s missing? It starts with the MLB getting a deep enough drop so as not to leave wide seam in front of the secondary. This was a major fault in Hicks’ game. In the last 2 games he seems to be improving. Reddick has not improved. He seems to have little understanding of his role. He rarely tips passes and certainly doesn’t intercept any or even impede throwing lanes. He needs to be schooled on angles.

Zones work best when the safeties are ballhawks. Coming downhill into plays often the receiver is unaware they’re being stalked. Tyrann Mathieu showed the Cards how a safety should play. They should show Baker some TM film illustrating what’s expected of Baker.

Finally players must understand they’re not statues on the field. They need to immediately cover anyone who enters their zone. Cards’ defenders are typically unresponsive or slow to react. If a zone is flooded the entire formation needs to shift in support.

Until the Cards learn to play zone they’ll continue to give up too many completions

 

[oaken1]

Doesnt help that we have man 2 man corners either

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My 8 year olds play a tighter zone.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

My 8 year olds play a tighter zone.

Hell, even Jenna Jamison has a tighter zone.

 

[Buckybird]

Joseph’s soft zone are ridiculously soft & plays them way too often, probably around 75% of the plays.

When you have limitations on talent, inside pressure & play constant soft zones those all add up for a very poor defense. Throw in a opposing completion 72%, league high worst 1st downs allowed & you’re in deep poo poo. It also limits your offensive production & touches.

Ugh

Play more m2m & take some chances. I still say the D will only get worse with Walker now places into a starting role at ILB & that’s not defending Reddicks play.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Did Joseph play this much zone in Denver? Even with the great corners?

 

[Harry]

Did Joseph play this much zone in Denver? Even with the great corners?

No but when he lost most of their secondary he had to play more. It wasn’t effective. It’s stiil just underskilled personnel. This unit can improve: very young.

 

[Chopper0080]

I would argue that a zone call is a zone call, the players determine who aggressive they are in the actual coverage played on the field. It is very similar to CB depth when the ball is snapped. That is determined by the player.

A prime example of this is the old Seattle defense. So many people assumed Seattle played man-free coverage and pressed at the line, but in actuality, they played cover 3, but the CBs chose to press at the line despite having deep 3rd coverage. The idea was that Sherman and Browner did not want to give up easy passes despite playing a zone scheme.

Joseph can make a zone call but that doesn't mandate that DBs can't press or that they don't aggressively cover anyone entering their zone. That is all dictated by the player. A lot of players play with more cushion when they are winded, hurt, or are worried about being burned deep. In zones, you see catches in space when players aren't identifying route concepts and are unfamiliar with how they fit in the scheme. This prevents players from anticipating who they need to cover and breaking on those routes and instead playing reactionary defense. They have to wait to see it before they begin their break.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I would argue that a zone call is a zone call, the players determine who aggressive they are in the actual coverage played on the field. It is very similar to CB depth when the ball is snapped. That is determined by the player.

A prime example of this is the old Seattle defense. So many people assumed Seattle played man-free coverage and pressed at the line, but in actuality, they played cover 3, but the CBs chose to press at the line despite having deep 3rd coverage. The idea was that Sherman and Browner did not want to give up easy passes despite playing a zone scheme.

Joseph can make a zone call but that doesn't mandate that DBs can't press or that they don't aggressively cover anyone entering their zone. That is all dictated by the player. A lot of players play with more cushion when they are winded, hurt, or are worried about being burned deep. In zones, you see catches in space when players aren't identifying route concepts and are unfamiliar with how they fit in the scheme. This prevents players from anticipating who they need to cover and breaking on those routes and instead playing reactionary defense. They have to wait to see it before they begin their break.

This is not true at all. The depth of how far the DBs are playing can be, and usually dictated by scheme, not by the player.

 

[Buckybird]

This is not true at all. The depth of how far the DBs are playing can be, and usually dictated by scheme, not by the player.

Totally agree. The trends & frequency at which they are playing soft zone (& I do mean soft) says otherwise & are being taught this.

 

[DVontel]

Keim’s hiring of Vance just really bugs me. It’s like he doesn’t even know the strength of his personnel. Why hire a primarily zone guy when his personnel caters towards man?

 

[Buckybird]

Keim’s hiring of Vance just really bugs me. It’s like he doesn’t even know the strength of his personnel. Why hire a primarily zone guy when his personnel caters towards man?

Ding ding ding.

At least his CBs do

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Keim’s hiring of Vance just really bugs me. It’s like he doesn’t even know the strength of his personnel. Why hire a primarily zone guy when his personnel caters towards man?

PP is the only real man player. I completely disagree that the personnel screams man. Whom else in our back 7 can man cover?

I'll give you Murphy, but the jury is still out on the rook.

Baker? Thompson twins? Reddick? Walker, Gardeck? etc. None of them are good man covers.

We are playing zone because we have to. The problem is, our guys can't play zone very well either.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

PP is the only real man player. I completely disagree that the personnel screams man. Whom else in our back 7 can man cover?

I'll give you Murphy, but the jury is still out on the rook.

Baker? Thompson twins? Reddick? Walker, Gardeck? etc. None of them are good man covers.

We are playing zone because we have to. The problem is, our guys can't play zone very well either.

12 years of tackle football and every coach I had pre determined CB depth, even as specific as start in a jam and fade to a 10 yard cushion as QB starts his cadence. Every step is scripted - you cant just randomly float leaving your safety trying to guess where his own CB will be presnap.

With our personnel at CB, our base defense should be Tampa 2 which is known for aggressive corner play while in zone. In Tampa 2, corners are lined up @ LOS in a jam but still playing zone. A press coverage doesn't necessarily mean youre automatically in Man to Man.

VJ plays THE SOFTEST cover 2 ive ever seen and way too much traditional cover 3 which is inherently a soft zone giving up short routes while focusing on stopping the run (which we still dont do in cover 3).

We cant be begging for the CB's to be in press man coverage on an island (the look we saw all the time with Bowles). Lets just start with begging for an aggressive Tampa 2 out of VJ and work our way up from there.

edit: with how much TE's kill us up the seam, Tampa 2 as base is making even more sense. MLB drops into the deep center third and defends deep seams and really turns it into a cover 3. a tampa 2 stresses the importance of getting deep to the MLB

 

[dreamcastrocks]

12 years of tackle football and every coach I had pre determined CB depth, even as specific as start in a jam and fade to a 10 yard cushion as QB starts his cadence. Every step is scripted - you cant just randomly float leaving your safety trying to guess where his own CB will be presnap.

With our personnel at CB, our base defense should be Tampa 2 which is known for aggressive corner play while in zone. In Tampa 2, corners are lined up @ LOS in a jam but still playing zone. A press coverage doesn't necessarily mean youre automatically in Man to Man.

VJ plays THE SOFTEST cover 2 ive ever seen and way too much traditional cover 3 which is inherently a soft zone giving up short routes while focusing on stopping the run (which we still dont do in cover 3).

We cant be begging for the CB's to be in press man coverage on an island (the look we saw all the time with Bowles). Lets just start with begging for an aggressive Tampa 2 out of VJ and work our way up from there.

edit: with how much TE's kill us up the seam, Tampa 2 as base is making even more sense. MLB drops into the deep center third and defends deep seams and really turns it into a cover 3. a tampa 2 stresses the importance of getting deep to the MLB

I'm not sure if you are arguing for what I said, or against.

We have one man corner, one unknown, and the rest aren't good in man coverage.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

I'm not sure if you are arguing for what I said, or against.

We have one man corner, one unknown, and the rest aren't good in man coverage.

A lot of my response was towards other people but some towards you so I guess thats why I quoted you.

I agree that we dont have the personnel for 2 CBs in true man coverage. Maybe next year with more development of Murphy but not right now and certainly no Cover Zero all out blitz like we saw with Bowles - our safeties are nowhere near ready for that.

However, I think the Tampa 2 is perfect for where we are right now. We definitely have the corners to pull off something more aggressive than this super soft zone. Even Kyler said that in his mic'd up vs the falcons! forget which corner he was talking to but he was like "dam dude we gotta get up and press those receivers"