Dallas @ Suns Game 1 (R2) Monday 5-2-2022, 7 PM

[TJ]

If Monty and CP3 allow it, Ayton will eat. Problem is during the Pels series, Monty and CP3 stopped involving him in the offense. He got like 1 FGA in Game 5. Dallas doesnt have an answer for DA and he could easily average 22ppg if given the opportunity.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Nance schooled Ayton on the boards last night. Thankfully, it didn’t matter in the end. I really don’t believe this is debatable…

He did in the first half. Ayton stopped that in the second half.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Nance had 8 rebounds
Jonas had 8 rebounds
Ayton had 7 rebounds

I mean 8-7 doesn’t seem like getting “schooled” we spent this whole series talking about Jonas vs Ayton now Ayton is responsible for Nance to? Isn’t that Crowders guy?

Well when jonas is in the bench most of the first half with three fouls and so Ayton is defending nance and nance out rebounds Ayton 8-2 in the first half, yeah.

You mentioned you were going to watch the draft or knit or something at one point in the first half so I’m guessing you didn’t actually watch the entire half.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Nance had 8 rebounds
Jonas had 8 rebounds
Ayton had 7 rebounds

I mean 8-7 doesn’t seem like getting “schooled” we spent this whole series talking about Jonas vs Ayton now Ayton is responsible for Nance to? Isn’t that Crowders guy?

Ugh... I really don't want to get dragged into the details yet again... I'll simply add:

Nance: 21mins
Jonas: 27 mins
Ayton: 40 mins

And, when Nance was in at the same time as Ayton, he schooled him... Mainly in the first half as I'll concede @Ouchie-Z-Clown's point...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If Monty and CP3 allow it, Ayton will eat. Problem is during the Pels series, Monty and CP3 stopped involving him in the offense. He got like 1 FGA in Game 5. Dallas doesnt have an answer for DA and he could easily average 22ppg if given the opportunity.

??? Ayton averaged about the same FGAs (if not more) than his regular season average. And if you remove the game 2 debacle he actually average almost 2 more FGAs than his regular season attempts.

And he had 13 FGAs in game 5.

But agree with your general point - some games it’s only monty, Paul, and book that can stop the big man.

 

[Cheesebeef]

??? Ayton averaged about the same FGAs (if not more) than his regular season average. And if you remove the game 2 debacle he actually average almost 2 more FGAs than his regular season attempts.

And he had 13 FGAs in game 5.

But agree with your general point - some games it’s only monty, Paul, and book that can stop the big man.

He also stops himself as well. He always comes out of the gate charging hard but he’s hugging and puffing a lot towards end of games and I think that’s where his most frustrating turnovers come into play. And once that/a weak attempt at the rim happens once or twice in the fourth quarter, I think CP3 loses confidence in him and knows it’s time for he and Book to control everything down the stretch.

That said, he was very good on O last series. Even made some great passes on cuts to the basket in addition to trusting himself more on his dribble drives.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He also stops himself as well. He always comes out of the gate charging hard but he’s hugging and puffing a lot towards end of games and I think that’s where his most frustrating turnovers come into play. And once that/a weak attempt at the rim happens once or twice in the fourth quarter, I think CP3 loses confidence in him and knows it’s time for he and Book to control everything down the stretch.

That said, he was very good on O last series. Even made some great passes on cuts to the basket in addition to trusting himself more on his dribble drives.

True on all this. Made some really nifty passes that at first I was like “what are you doing?!?” Then I saw what he saw and was like “that’s slick!”

 

[Covert Rain]

I still have some concerns going into this series. We still have a starter not playing consistent in Crowder. We have some main bench guys that are not performing up to snuff. One seems like he is playing better while the other is still a disaster (Payne). I have little confidence in Shamet. Just seems like the reliable bench we had earlier in the season is gone. We let leads evaporate time and time again when those guys came in.

It took two "perfect games" by two different Suns players the last two games to close out the series. You usually can't depend on that happening through an entire playoff run let alone twice in one series. We definitely can't expect that twice in the next series.

I still think we are better than the Mavs but I don't want to see games come down to a single possession with Luka on the other side of the ball. Like the Suns he tends to be extremely clutch down the stretch.

 

[Finito]

Ugh... I really don't want to get dragged into the details yet again... I'll simply add:

Nance: 21mins
Jonas: 27 mins
Ayton: 40 mins

And, when Nance was in at the same time as Ayton, he schooled him... Mainly in the first half as I'll concede @Ouchie-Z-Clown's point...

My point is Nance is a 6’7 guy who comes crashing in for rebounds. It’s up to his guy to stop that.

Like that ridiculous put back he had. Ayton is in position for the rebound and Nance comes flying it for the tip in. That’s not on the guy who’s already in position. Shot goes up find the closest pelican and put a body on him none of our players do that. Nance is an energy guy off the bench who crashes the boards that’s exactly what our PF don’t do.

Crowder and Craig should be doing that instead they just watch guys go by them

Is Ayton a good rebounder? Yes. could he be better? Yes. I think this offseason if he could work on adding weight to his base and positioning it could really take his game to all star level

I also think the Pelicans were the most physical team in the playoffs. They don’t just have size those bigs also play with energy. There entire team crashes the boards. Us it’s just Ayton

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My point is Nance is a 6’7 guy who comes crashing in for rebounds. It’s up to his guy to stop that.

Like that ridiculous put back he had. Ayton is in position for the rebound and Nance comes flying it for the tip in. That’s not on the guy who’s already in position. Shot goes up find the closest pelican and put a body on him none of our players do that. Nance is an energy guy off the bench who crashes the boards that’s exactly what our PF don’t do.

Crowder and Craig should be doing that instead they just watch guys go by them

Is Ayton a good rebounder? Yes. could he be better? Yes. I think this offseason if he could work on adding weight to his base and positioning it could really take his game to all star level

I also think the Pelicans were the most physical team in the playoffs. They don’t just have size those bigs also play with energy. There entire team crashes the boards. Us it’s just Ayton

When nance was in the game he was their small ball center. He was Ayton’s defensive assignment. Why aren’t you getting that? He was Ayton’s guy to box out.

 

[Finito]

When nance was in the game he was their small ball center. He was Ayton’s defensive assignment. Why aren’t you getting that? He was Ayton’s guy to box out.

But you know as well as I do. Small ball doesn’t bang it’s energy and movement.

Right or wrong?

 

[mjb21aztd]

Lets gooo suns and celtics in east in 2nd round

Also no.middleton for bucks is a pretty big loss go green leperchaun lol

Hope mr cp3 monster da and dsizzle book show up vs luka mavs will be a tough series...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My point is Nance is a 6’7 guy who comes crashing in for rebounds. It’s up to his guy to stop that.

Like that ridiculous put back he had. Ayton is in position for the rebound and Nance comes flying it for the tip in. That’s not on the guy who’s already in position. Shot goes up find the closest pelican and put a body on him none of our players do that. Nance is an energy guy off the bench who crashes the boards that’s exactly what our PF don’t do.

Crowder and Craig should be doing that instead they just watch guys go by them

Is Ayton a good rebounder? Yes. could he be better? Yes. I think this offseason if he could work on adding weight to his base and positioning it could really take his game to all star level

I also think the Pelicans were the most physical team in the playoffs. They don’t just have size those bigs also play with energy. There entire team crashes the boards. Us it’s just Ayton

Also, I know this is going to shock some of you, I think Ayton is already an all star level player. He averaged 17/10/1.5/1/1 on 64% shooting. I think if that remains consistent or his scoring goes up a tick (let’s say 19/game) next season and the suns continue to be one of top echelon teams he makes the all star team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is a great feature on Ayton from the Ringer yesterday:

Will Deandre Ayton Get His Moment in the Sun?

The self-proclaimed “freestyle big” has pared down his game to give Phoenix what it needs in the paint, even after the sacrifice wasn’t rewarded with a max extension last fall. Now, with Devin Booker on the mend and the top-seeded Suns fighting to stave off the scrappy Pelicans, the former no. 1...

www.theringer.com

 

[SirStefan32]

When nance was in the game he was their small ball center. He was Ayton’s defensive assignment. Why aren’t you getting that? He was Ayton’s guy to box out.

Yeah, and it was really obvious, at least two times that I can remember. Ayton standing there looking up, Nancy getting a running start for an offensive rebound/ put back.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But you know as well as I do. Small ball doesn’t bang it’s energy and movement.

Right or wrong?

Absolutely. But that doesn’t mean Ayton stops guarding his man or that it precludes him from locating his man and boxing him out. During those times on the court aytin is literally the biggest dude on the floor and his man was crushing it on the boards.

If ever there was an argument that pulls back the curtain on how silly your view of Ayton’s infallibility is it’s your continued argument that aytin is completely blames for being outrebounded 8-2 by the guy he’s tasked with defending that is 6’7.

Did you watch the entire first half?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But you know as well as I do. Small ball doesn’t bang it’s energy and movement.

Right or wrong?

And small ball is supposed to create better offensive opportunity, not more rebounding opportunity. In fact it’s a calculated risk teams take that they’ll sacrifice rebounding for the better offensive opportunities. So your argument here is really spurious to this particular debate.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah, and it was really obvious, at least two times that I can remember. Ayton standing there looking up, Nancy getting a running start for an offensive rebound/ put back.

Right. Never even located his guy to box out.

 

[TJ]

Ayton will need to work on his box outs and rebounding in the offseason. He’s better than this. He should be 11-12 RPG especially if James Jones is gonna stick with Crowder as the starting 4

 

[Covert Rain]

I know Ayton is proverbial current whipping boy on the team but I wanted to take a moment to recognize something. Ayton's outside shot is a complete transformation. Last year he almost exclusively played on the inside as was the recipient of assisted shots. He has been knocking down his jumper with regularity. It completely changes how teams can cover him. I honestly didn't think it would be as good as it has been. Not too long ago every time he put up a jumper I would just cringe.

 

[GatorAZ]

Count me in the group that’s not overlooking the Mavs. Any team that can go 5-wide can cause problems in a series. Also Brunson is basically their Ginobili at this point and the addition of Dinwiddie gives them 3 ball handlers. I think they’re a rich man’s version of the Clipper we faced in the WCF’s.

 

[Finito]

I know Ayton is proverbial current whipping boy on the team but I wanted to take a moment to recognize something. Ayton's outside shot is a complete transformation. Last year he almost exclusively played on the inside as was the recipient of assisted shots. He has been knocking down his jumper with regularity. It completely changes how teams can cover him. I honestly didn't think it would be as good as it has been. Not too long ago every time he put up a jumper I would just cringe.

His offense has definitely grown. He was 10/12 last night. I remember there was a game against Houston I think his rookie year or his second year they kept switching Harden on him and Ayton couldn’t post him up. It must have happened 3 or 4 times.

Now he destroys little guys on the block and his shot is smooth enough to take bigger guys outside. His stock is trending up. Mark Bryant has done a hell of a job with him.

All while being one of the three best defensive centers in the NBA

 

[82CardsGrad]

Also, I know this is going to shock some of you, I think Ayton is already an all star level player. He averaged 17/10/1.5/1/1 on 64% shooting. I think if that remains consistent or his scoring goes up a tick (let’s say 19/game) next season and the suns continue to be one of top echelon teams he makes the all star team.

Been making that point - seemingly every day - for the past week!

 

[Absolute Zero]

Oh, you misunderstood my comment. I was also expressing doubt at someone's idea that Crowder was "useless on defense" against someone. His defense is evidently so good that the Suns are willing to put up with his low scoring and average rebounding. If he just rebounded more, he'd be the Suns' Dennis Rodman without the stupid-looking hair. And as everyone knows, Dennis Rodman was a basketball genius.

No--no. Here's a more relevant comparison: you make Crowder sound like Shawn Marion. Now there was a Dennis Rodman, sort of.

Ok, my bad.

But now have to disagree on the Marion/Rodman comparison. I only mentioned Rodman because he used to really piss off his opponents, like Crowder. No Sun has ever rebounded like Rodman did on such a regular basis, as far as I can recall at least.

 

[Mainstreet]

Count me in the group that’s not overlooking the Mavs. Any team that can go 5-wide can cause problems in a series. Also Brunson is basically their Ginobili at this point and the addition of Dinwiddie gives them 3 ball handlers. I think they’re a rich man’s version of the Clipper we faced in the WCF’s.

If the Suns advance, I never take anything for granted, it will be good preparation if they meet the Warriors.