Suns @ Kings 2-10-19

[Finito]

Did you even watch the game?

No he didn’t

But certain guys will be here to like and quote him shortly

Ayton is not the problem the problem is you have a coach who doesn’t know how to adjust he’s just a system guy. So it’s system system system he’s trying to fit square pegs into round holes. Ayton doesn’t fit the system and instead of adjusting to the guys you have he’s trying to run his system and it’s just not working

 

[TJ]

Did you even watch the game?

Yeah, I’m pretty fed up with people pissing on Ayton for effort when 75% of the team and coaches perform as if they have a movie to catch right after the game.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Kings have seemingly turned the corner while the Suns are still treacherous. The end of this misery is nowhere in sight

When the Kings drafted Georgios Papagiannis in the 2016 draft I thought tjhe Suns put them in their rear view mirror.

It turns out it was the other way around when the Suns traded the rights to Bogdanovic to them.

 

[1Sun]

No he didn’t

But certain guys will be here to like and quote him shortly

Ayton is not the problem the problem is you have a coach who doesn’t know how to adjust he’s just a system guy. So it’s system system system he’s trying to fit square pegs into round holes. Ayton doesn’t fit the system and instead of adjusting to the guys you have he’s trying to run his system and it’s just not working

Bingo.

 

[Cheesebeef]

there is no defense for Tyler Johnson to EVER have more shot attempts than Ayton.

Ayton plays without fire... it's a problem that eventually might keep him from being an all-time great. But our coaching staff having such problems either lightning that fire/teaching him positioning/figuring out how to feature him is a massive problem too that might keep him from getting to those heights we want him too.

He's literally still the exact same player he was at the beginning of the season, which for a rookie, is pretty damn good. But he's got so potential to be so much more and I've yet to see this coaching showing any signs that they know how to get him there.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns have demonstrated they do not care if they have a point guard problem.

As I view it they brought on Tyler Johnson in the hopes he could help the Suns point guard situation but I think the primary reason is they need to use his $19 million contract in a trade this summer.

 

[Finito]

there is no defense for Tyler Johnson to EVER have more shot attempts than Ayton.

Ayton plays without fire... it's a problem that eventually might keep him from being an all-time great. But our coaching staff having such problems either lightning that fire/teaching him positioning/figuring out how to feature him is a massive problem too that might keep him from getting to those heights we want him too.

He's literally still the exact same player he was at the beginning of the season, which for a rookie, is pretty damn good. But he's got so potential to be so much more and I've yet to see this coaching showing any signs that they know how to get him there.

Guys keep saying this. He’s like 19 averaging a double double. I honestly don’t know what people want from him. You have to be realistic here. He’s averaging 11 rebounds a game but people want him to get 15, such unrealistic expectations.

He had 16/9 tonight going 8/10 from the field. He scored anytime he wanted but do you think we used any of that to our advantage? Nope. Hey I got this big guy they can’t stop maybe we should try a little harder to get him involved but nope hey Tyler Johnson keep chucking 3s

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Suns have demonstrated they do not care if they have a point guard problem.

As I view it they brought on Tyler Johnson in the hopes he could help the Suns point guard issues but I think the real reason is they need to use his $19 million contract in a trade this summer.

Main, how many times have you assumed one deal was made so the team could make another trade that will actually help them... and that second trade actually happened. Gotta stop being Charlie Brown to the Suns' Lucy dude.

 

[1Sun]

The Suns have demonstrated they do not care if they have a point guard problem.

As I view it they brought on Tyler Johnson in the hopes he could help the Suns point guard issues but I think the real reason is they need to use his $19 million contract in a trade this summer.

They will have to give up assets to get a team to take on Tyler Johnson's contract. They were better off keeping Ryan Anderson and cutting him at season's end and stretching the $15.6 million he was guaranteed.

 

[1Sun]

Guys keep saying this. He’s like 19 averaging a double double. I honestly don’t know what people want from him. You have to be realistic here. He’s averaging 11 rebounds a game but people want him to get 15, such unrealistic expectations.

He had 16/9 tonight going 8/10 from the field. He scored anytime he wanted but do you think we used any of that to our advantage? Nope. Hey I got this big guy they can’t stop maybe we should try a little harder to get him involved but nope hey Tyler Johnson keep chucking 3s

This. Igor must go.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Guys keep saying this. He’s like 19 averaging a double double.

No he's not. He's 20.5. He'll be 21 in July. If we're going to talk about him as far as opinions, can we at least talk about him with objective fact. And yes, there's a difference between 20.5 and 19 or you wouldn't have brought his age up in the first place. So, can we at least start from a place of fact before we actually discuss this?

I honestly don’t know what people want from him. You have to be realistic here. He’s averaging 11 rebounds a game but people want him to get 15, such unrealistic expectations.

BS. No one has EVER said they expect 15 rebounds per game. That's you, again, making stuff up because any little criticism of Ayton gets you fired up... much like Igor's defenders. I'm fine with his rebounding. What I'm not fine with is his atrocious defense outside of that.

That said, I also put blame there on Igor who hasn't made a dent in Ayton either offensively or defensively throughout the season. He started the season as a 16/10 guy and that's exactly who he is 2/3s of the way through his first season. Which, yes, those are good stats for a rookie, but that DOESN'T mean he's completely blameless for anything else.

He had 16/9 tonight going 8/10 from the field. He scored anytime he wanted but do you think we used any of that to our advantage? Nope. Hey I got this big guy they can’t stop maybe we should try a little harder to get him involved but nope hey Tyler Johnson keep chucking 3s

And again, offensively, he's good. He makes the most out of his touches and he has a coach who just seems clueless as to use him or feature him. That's an Igor issue.

But he's still atrocious on D. That's a fire issue, IMO. And being able to have a nuanced opinion on Ayton shouldn't get feathers so ruffled up.

 

[Mainstreet]

Main, how many times have you assumed one deal was made so the team could make another trade that will actually help them... and that second trade actually happened. Gotta stop being Charlie Brown to the Suns' Lucy dude.

I keep trying to put some logic to it but that doesn't seem to work.

It makes more sense to think that the Suns value Tyler's contract to use in a trade more than believe they thought he is the answer at point guard.

 

[1Sun]

I keep trying to put some logic to it but that doesn't seem to work.

It makes more sense that the Suns value Tyler's contract to use in a trade rather rather than believe they thought he is the answer at point guard.

To me, the most likely explanation remains that James Jones merely did his buddy Pat Riley a favor at the Suns' expense to remain in Pat Riley's good graces.

 

[Hoop Head]

Guys keep saying this. He’s like 19 averaging a double double. I honestly don’t know what people want from him. You have to be realistic here. He’s averaging 11 rebounds a game but people want him to get 15, such unrealistic expectations.

He had 16/9 tonight going 8/10 from the field. He scored anytime he wanted but do you think we used any of that to our advantage? Nope. Hey I got this big guy they can’t stop maybe we should try a little harder to get him involved but nope hey Tyler Johnson keep chucking 3s

Ayton is posting empty stats. It's not so much how many rebounds he grabs, I don't care if he only had 2 so long as the 2 were important rebounds. He shot 8 for 10 but how much did he work for those 10 shots? I want to see him beat his man in the post and score on someone rather than get a dunk because his guy doubled off of him. It's not so much what he's averaging, which is nice on paper but there's a reason he's not talked about like Doncic is this year. He's not doing anything that matters.

The coaching can be blamed to a certain extent but a lot of it is on Ayton also. It's not like the complaints with him now are that different than UofA fans had with him last year. The constant is Ayton isn't aggressive and despite brimming with enough talent to be the focal point of every game HE doesn't do anything to actually takeover any games.

Doncic's stats and averages aren't talked about nearly as much as how he hit a game winner or how he single handedly got Dallas back in a game by scoring a dozen points in 30 seconds. If Ayton did something close to that, he'd be getting the same ink Doncic is but he's not. The closest he's come is when he took over in overtime and wouldn't let Orlando score, I think it was Orlando but I could be wrong on the opponent.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I keep trying to put some logic to it but that doesn't seem to work.

It makes more sense to think that the Suns value Tyler's contract to use in a trade more than believe they thought he is the answer at point guard.

I'm with ya if only because the idea that they DO believe Tyler is the answer would hurt my brain so much more than the Suns already damage it.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm with ya if only because the idea that they DO believe Tyler is the answer would hurt my brain so much more than the Suns already damage it.

If they believe this, the Suns are in a world of hurt.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If they believe this, the Suns are in a world of hurt.

they can't. I won't let myself believe they believe this... all evidence to the contrary.

how this team didn't even look at guys like Rondo or Tony Parker in the last off-season was and is still mind-boggling.

 

[Mainstreet]

they can't. I won't let myself believe they believe this... all evidence to the contrary.

how this team didn't even look at guys like Rondo or Tony Parker in the last off-season was and is still mind-boggling.

I wonder if they even talked about Shelvin Mack before he signed elsewhere after being waived.

He is not anywhere near a starter but he might have been a backup next season.

 

[Hoop Head]

I wonder if they even talked about Shelvin Mack before he signed elsewhere after being waived.

He is not anywhere near a starter but he might have been a backup next season.

Shelvin Mack was claimed off of waivers, the Suns couldn't have signed him. We aren't under the cap either so we couldn't claim him either. Mack going to Charlotte is something the Suns had absolutely zero control over.

 

[Finito]

No he's not. He's 20.5. He'll be 21 in July. If we're going to talk about him as far as opinions, can we at least talk about him with objective fact. And yes, there's a difference between 20.5 and 19 or you wouldn't have brought his age up in the first place. So, can we at least start from a place of fact before we actually discuss this?



BS. No one has EVER said they expect 15 rebounds per game. That's you, again, making stuff up because any little criticism of Ayton gets you fired up... much like Igor's defenders. I'm fine with his rebounding. What I'm not fine with is his atrocious defense outside of that.

That said, I also put blame there on Igor who hasn't made a dent in Ayton either offensively or defensively throughout the season. He started the season as a 16/10 guy and that's exactly who he is 2/3s of the way through his first season. Which, yes, those are good stats for a rookie, but that DOESN'T mean he's completely blameless for anything else.



And again, offensively, he's good. He makes the most out of his touches and he has a coach who just seems clueless as to use him or feature him. That's an Igor issue.

But he's still atrocious on D. That's a fire issue, IMO. And being able to have a nuanced opinion on Ayton shouldn't get feathers so ruffled up.

Nothing here gets me riled up. So what he’s 20 not 19. Your still doing the whole 20 1/2 lol what are you 6. Hopefully by the time he’s 22 5/16 his game will be much better.

 

[Finito]

Ayton is posting empty stats. It's not so much how many rebounds he grabs, I don't care if he only had 2 so long as the 2 were important rebounds. He shot 8 for 10 but how much did he work for those 10 shots? I want to see him beat his man in the post and score on someone rather than get a dunk because his guy doubled off of him. It's not so much what he's averaging, which is nice on paper but there's a reason he's not talked about like Doncic is this year. He's not doing anything that matters.

The coaching can be blamed to a certain extent but a lot of it is on Ayton also. It's not like the complaints with him now are that different than UofA fans had with him last year. The constant is Ayton isn't aggressive and despite brimming with enough talent to be the focal point of every game HE doesn't do anything to actually takeover any games.

Doncic's stats and averages aren't talked about nearly as much as how he hit a game winner or how he single handedly got Dallas back in a game by scoring a dozen points in 30 seconds. If Ayton did something close to that, he'd be getting the same ink Doncic is but he's not. The closest he's come is when he took over in overtime and wouldn't let Orlando score, I think it was Orlando but I could be wrong on the opponent.

Yeah he sucks

 

[Hoop Head]

Yeah he sucks

His drive sucks, I wouldn't say he sucks but if you want to then who I am to say different.

 

[Mainstreet]

Shelvin Mack was claimed off of waivers, the Suns couldn't have signed him. We aren't under the cap either so we couldn't claim him either. Mack going to Charlotte is something the Suns had absolutely zero control over.

I'm thinking the Suns can sign a player to the minimum although I'm not sure what Mack signed for.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah he sucks

AGAIN, no one is saying this.

I just don't understand why people continually view Ayton OR Igor complaints as such black and white issues where nothing nuanced can be said without people getting angry one way or another.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'm thinking the Suns can sign a player to the minimum although I'm not sure what Mack signed for.

They can but he was waived and he didn't clear waivers. A player is on "waivers" for 48 hours and during that time any team under the cap can make a claim on him. If multiple teams make a claim then the team with the worst record gets him. The Suns record sucks but we're not under the cap so we couldn't make a claim, we had to wait until he cleared waivers, which he didn't because Charlotte claimed him off of waivers. So the Suns couldn't sign him, no one could have signed him, he had no choice in where he went because he was claimed off of waivers.