Wisconsin @ ASU

Gaddabout

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Ha. All this talk about the QB, whether he took a knee or not, is pointless. The loss is on Gary Anderson for even snapping the ball with no timeouts. One snap meant two snaps to stop the clock, and you don't do that PRECISELY BECAUSE of the confusion of the refs about when to stop the clock. He left it in the hands of the refs and Wisconsin got what it deserves.
 

Kel Varnsen

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Ha. All this talk about the QB, whether he took a knee or not, is pointless. The loss is on Gary Anderson for even snapping the ball with no timeouts. One snap meant two snaps to stop the clock, and you don't do that PRECISELY BECAUSE of the confusion of the refs about when to stop the clock. He left it in the hands of the refs and Wisconsin got what it deserves.

I hope the coach is taking the heat for this. I feel bad for the kid. :(
 

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Ha. All this talk about the QB, whether he took a knee or not, is pointless. The loss is on Gary Anderson for even snapping the ball with no timeouts. One snap meant two snaps to stop the clock, and you don't do that PRECISELY BECAUSE of the confusion of the refs about when to stop the clock. He left it in the hands of the refs and Wisconsin got what it deserves.

Tell that to Somer's who was kissing Anderson's ass all night.

BTW, I agree with you.
 

CardsFan88

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He never got clear to even simulate a knee. He wasn't under control. What the QB thought was a knee, the referees saw as a QB not under control where anything can happen. Stumbling around isn't a knee. He basically ran into his lineman interrupting his knee attempt because he hit right at the same time it was supposedly starting and thought it was a valid knee. Usually a guy will double tap or make a second attempt to make sure. Instead the QB then placed the ball right on the ground while clearly fully standing up.

They really should let the play continue because the QB easily could of tripped over the lineman had the ball ripped out by a defender or some other crazy thing. As is it looked more like a busted play rather than a designed kneel down.

Even if they rule the refs were wrong, the QB's actions made it improbable that a referee could notice such subtle motions amidst the chaos of him being off balance. His boneheaded play didn't make the refs job any easier, and it's poor play to mess up and put the refs in that position.

On another note, Arians would have a field day and this situation is a perfect example of what he teaches to be mindful of with KEEPING CONTROL of the ball. Cardinals want to capitalize on similar mistakes while limiting their own. The Badger QB didn't do that.

Bet Honey Badger don't care tho!
 
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Kel Varnsen

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I agree with CardsFan88. I'd have to read the actual simulation rule, but it seems like that kind of rule would be intended to be used only in obvious situations where the quarterback takes a snap, takes a step back, then kneels (or simulates a kneel). It doesn't seem like something you should be allowed to do when you're running around. Everyone "knew" he was running to get the ball near the middle of the field, but you can't assume that, especially as an official.
 

Gaddabout

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I agree with CardsFan88. I'd have to read the actual simulation rule, but it seems like that kind of rule would be intended to be used only in obvious situations where the quarterback takes a snap, takes a step back, then kneels (or simulates a kneel). It doesn't seem like something you should be allowed to do when you're running around. Everyone "knew" he was running to get the ball near the middle of the field, but you can't assume that, especially as an official.

QB also broke a fundamental of football -- never put the ball on the ground in that situation. You hand it to the ref.
 

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IMO devils got a lucky break because IMO the QBs knee was clearly down, which makes the devils falling on the ball a delay of game. Wow the refs choked that one, but hats off to Graham & his Devils on a huge win!!!
 
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What a wild one. OMG, I thought it would never get over. Very stressful to watch. Here are some random thoughts, the good, the bad and the ugly:

1. ASU receiving corps cost ASU about 21 points. It made ASU play from behind all night due to all the drops, one in the end zone, another when wide open and could have run in. Had it been Wisc playing from behind, this wouldn't have been close;

2. Bad time management by ASU and play calling by Norvell under 2 minutes. I couldn't believe when Grice ran out of bounds on that one play.

3. ASU shut down Wiscon's running game between the tackles. They shut down the whole running game in the first half, that bodes well for the upcoming Stanford game. But that Damn perimiter run when they handed it off to Gordon when he was in motion killed us.

4. Will Sutton is a target, and will be for the rest of the year. He was getting speared in the legs and tag teamed, cheap shotted, you name it. Hopefully he can make it through the year.

5. Jaxon Hood was a beast, he played very Suttonesque and benefited from all the attention that Sutton got.

6. Taylor was money in the first half, but his receivers had holes in their pockets. I think that rattled him going forward.

7. The Taylor/Strong sideline passes and fades are going to be tough for teams to defend or stop. You need a total stud at CB to do so and I don't know how many there are in the PAC 12.

8. That ASU field goal in the first half actually didn't go through. Sorry. Unless there is something in the rule book I don't know about, that was a miss;

9. The officiating was horrible. Even though they caught a lot of the pass interference by the Wisconsin DB's, they let several other clear ones go. Wisc. simply could not stay with our receivers.

10. First Downs: ASU 32; Wisc 15; ASU was clearly moving the ball better;

11. Why did they stop going to the mismatch of Grice and Foster in the flat running away from the linebacker in the second half?

I'll take the win, but lots of mistakes to learn from. I like to think we can hang with Stanford if we cut out the mistakes.
 

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What a wild one. OMG, I thought it would never get over. Very stressful to watch. Here are some random thoughts, the good, the bad and the ugly:

1. ASU receiving corps cost ASU about 21 points. It made ASU play from behind all night due to all the drops, one in the end zone, another when wide open and could have run in. Had it been Wisc playing from behind, this wouldn't have been close;

2. Bad time management by ASU and play calling by Norvell under 2 minutes. I couldn't believe when Grice ran out of bounds on that one play.

3. ASU shut down Wiscon's running game between the tackles. They shut down the whole running game in the first half, that bodes well for the upcoming Stanford game. But that Damn perimiter run when they handed it off to Gordon when he was in motion killed us.

4. Will Sutton is a target, and will be for the rest of the year. He was getting speared in the legs and tag teamed, cheap shotted, you name it. Hopefully he can make it through the year.

5. Jaxon Hood was a beast, he played very Suttonesque and benefited from all the attention that Sutton got.

6. Taylor was money in the first half, but his receivers had holes in their pockets. I think that rattled him going forward.

7. The Taylor/Strong sideline passes and fades are going to be tough for teams to defend or stop. You need a total stud at CB to do so and I don't know how many there are in the PAC 12.

8. That ASU field goal in the first half actually didn't go through. Sorry. Unless there is something in the rule book I don't know about, that was a miss;

9. The officiating was horrible. Even though they caught a lot of the pass interference by the Wisconsin DB's, they let several other clear ones go. Wisc. simply could not stay with our receivers.

10. First Downs: ASU 32; Wisc 15; ASU was clearly moving the ball better;

11. Why did they stop going to the mismatch of Grice and Foster in the flat running away from the linebacker in the second half?

I'll take the win, but lots of mistakes to learn from. I like to think we can hang with Stanford if we cut out the mistakes.


Stanford doesn't make mistakes and would never allow themselves to be in a position like what Wisky put themselves in last night. We will need to play significantly better in order to just stay close to Stanford.
I love Grice in the red zone, but I really wish we had a true game breaker at the running back position... Someone who can take it to the house from anywhere on the field...
Strong looks like he might develop into a major threat. Dude is huge and has great hands! Unlike Rick Smith who must have been paid off by Wisky as he dropped just about ever pass that hit his hands! He sucked bigtime.
Incredible that Sutton didn't record his first tackle until late in the 4th quarter...
Bradford played a great game.
But we are so undersized in our front 7. Had Wisky stayed with their run game, I'm convinced they would've pulled away in this game.
 
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Mainstreet

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I love Grice in the red zone, but I really wish we had a true game breaker at the running back position... Someone who can take it to the house from anywhere on the field...

IMO, Deandre Lewis has this capability. He was once lightning in a bottle and looks like he can be so again.
 

Jay Cardinal

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What a game! Most intense game I can remember in a while. I am still not sure what to think on that last play. Even though the rule book says you can "simulate" a knee, I just don't think it is a solid football play to run to the middle of the field and just set the ball on the ground without kneeling. Once again, I understand the rule book, just think it is a bad rule that takes away from the importance of ball security in football.

Also how did they miss the challenge near the end? The guy took two steps out of bounds on the sidelines on the long pass play on the final drive. With the clear camera views and the painted white sideline, that will go down as one of the worst calls I have ever seen. It is really disappointing to have all the technology in place and be able to pause the view with 1/3 of the guy's foot out of bounds. Really sad and embarrassing for the PAC-12 officials.
 

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Fair enough. But he royally screwed himself by GETTING BACK UP and trying to place the ball himself. Absolutely should have stayed down. That's on him.
 

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Fair enough. But he royally screwed himself by GETTING BACK UP and trying to place the ball himself. Absolutely should have stayed down. That's on him.

It still doesn't excuse the fact his knee was clearly down IMO, thus the refs blew the call & probably cost Wiskey the win.

TCU gots hosed like 4 times Thursday nite & likely lost because of the refs too. As someone pointed out, if the sides were reversed, ASU fans would be screaming bloody murder. I'm glad they won, even though in reality they didn't.
 

Brian in Mesa

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As someone pointed out, if the sides were reversed, ASU fans would be screaming bloody murder. I'm glad they won, even though in reality they didn't.

If that is your side of things...we are even with Wisconsin then. We beat them at their home, but they were given the win in a close game up there...
 

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If that is your side of things...we are even with Wisconsin then. We beat them at their home, but they were given the win in a close game up there...

Nothing like home cooking & your conference's officials ;)

Believe me BIM, I glad the Devils won, I went to HS with Todd & played sports with the dude in HS & afterward...I knew he would turn that school around because his track record said he would. I will be at Jerry world rooting on the Devils against the Irish bro
 

ajcardfan

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If that is your side of things...we are even with Wisconsin then. We beat them at their home, but they were given the win in a close game up there...

Exactly. Which is why I don't feel any sympathy for Wisconsin. Reality is that ref screw-ups generally favor the home team.
 

Dback Jon

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So why did Graham go for two so early in the game? It wasn't like it was a defensive struggle. They should have been up 3 at the end - which would have meant Wisc trying to hit FG for tie, not win.
 

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Wow new Wisconsin coach really took the high road in the presser. Thought he was really pretty cool and collected for a few minutes after the dramatic ending.

http://www.youtube.com/v/CR75YpI6qLs

You have to remember that from his vantage point, he really had no idea what had happened. Neither did coach Graham. Here are the issues that complicated this.

1. Anderson played with fire in the last few seconds. Too many things can happen when you are trying to center the ball. He got greedy and he knew it. He knew it was primarily his own fault for not spiking the ball and kicking the fg.

2. The qb took a knee and bounced up so quickly, along with being bumped by his own lineman, that no one on the field sideline, or in the press box saw it. The only person that saw it was the referee.

3. The qb laid the ball on the field instead of giving it to the ref.

4. The referee had some difficulty with getting the ASU player off the ball because the QB was in his face arguing.

5. The umpire did not see the kneel, he could not have, so for all he knew the ball had been fumbled. He was trying to sort that out in his mind.

6. The defensive players did the right thing. If there is a remote possibility that it is a fumble, you jump on the ball. You could argue that the whistle had blown, but at the end of the game with all that noise, whistles are sometimes hard to hear, the ref had not placed the ball, it was just laying there.

7. Wisconsin had no time outs. For the refs to stop play in order to set the ball would be calling a virtual time out for Wisconsin. As long as the ball is reasonably set, no stop in play should be called.

8. No one was looking at the clock as events occured, so they could not know when the qb took a knee, be even then, the clock is not supposed to stop.

9. The reason that the WI team was not being urgent was they thought they had called time, and the clock was not running. They were not granted a timeout that they did not have.

10. The WI players were not looking at the clock. If they had jumped up to the line and got in position to snap the ball, they might have been able to do so.

11. I have no explanation for the ref holding up his hand. Even then, they only lost about a second and the WI qb was not paying attention and was not in position at that moment to take a snap even if the umpire had not held up his hand. There would have not been enough time for a spike which requires 3 seconds by regulation I believe.

The refs probably should have taken their time at the end of the game, reviewed the play, and came up with an answer. But I think the ref consultant for ESPN said that the play was not reviewable.

Since none of them could look at a replay, they just let events stand.

The WI coach made mistakes, the WI qb made mistakes, the WI offense did not pay attention to the clock, the refs made mistakes.

The only group on that field at that moment that were not making mistakes was the ASU defense. If I am a coach, I want my player to jump on that ball every time.
 
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crisper57

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From MMQB today:

7. I think, in the wake of one of the most bizarre endings to a football game ever (Wisconsin-Arizona State, at 2 a.m. ET Sunday), I want to perform a public service for the Wisconsin coaching staff. Read this story from The MMQB in August. It centers on Arizona Cardinals coach Bruce Arians coaching the minutiae to his young players. Never assume your players know all the rules, or will execute them properly. And remember Arians’ words: “There are no little things. The little things are all big things.” The little things cost the Badgers a game when their quarterback, Joe Stave, placed a ball down on the field, thinking he was downing it in good position to kick a game-winning field goal. But it happened so fast—even though Stave had time to kneel and put the ball down properly—that the officials and Sun Devil players weren’t sure what happened, and some ASU players flopped on the ball as the clock continued to run, and expire. Stave needed to make it clear he was kneeling down and giving himself up, and it happened so fast no one could tell what he was doing. You can blame the officials, who were indecisive, but Stave has to execute the play with enough time on the clock and set Wisconsin up for the field goal.
 

AzStevenCal

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You have to remember that from his vantage point, he really had no idea what had happened. Neither did coach Graham. Here are the issues that complicated this.

1. Anderson played with fire in the last few seconds. Too many things can happen when you are trying to center the ball. He got greedy and he knew it. He knew it was primarily his own fault for not spiking the ball and kicking the fg.

2. The qb took a knee and bounced up so quickly, along with being bumped by his own lineman, that no one on the field sideline, or in the press box saw it. The only person that saw it was the referee.

3. The qb laid the ball on the field instead of giving it to the ref.

4. The referee had some difficulty with getting the ASU player off the ball because the QB was in his face arguing.

5. The umpire did not see the kneel, he could not have, so for all he knew the ball had been fumbled. He was trying to sort that out in his mind.

6. The defensive players did the right thing. If there is a remote possibility that it is a fumble, you jump on the ball. You could argue that the whistle had blown, but at the end of the game with all that noise, whistles are sometimes hard to hear, the ref had not placed the ball, it was just laying there.

7. Wisconsin had no time outs. For the refs to stop play in order to set the ball would be calling a virtual time out for Wisconsin. As long as the ball is reasonably set, no stop in play should be called.

8. No one was looking at the clock as events occured, so they could not know when the qb took a knee, be even then, the clock is not supposed to stop.

9. The reason that the WI team was not being urgent was they thought they had called time, and the clock was not running. They were not granted a timeout that they did not have.

10. The WI players were not looking at the clock. If they had jumped up to the line and got in position to snap the ball, they might have been able to do so.

11. I have no explanation for the ref holding up his hand. Even then, they only lost about a second and the WI qb was not paying attention and was not in position at that moment to take a snap even if the umpire had not held up his hand. There would have not been enough time for a spike which requires 3 seconds by regulation I believe.

The refs probably should have taken their time at the end of the game, reviewed the play, and came up with an answer. But I think the ref consultant for ESPN said that the play was not reviewable.

Since none of them could look at a replay, they just let events stand.

The WI coach made mistakes, the WI qb made mistakes, the WI offense did not pay attention to the clock, the refs made mistakes.

The only group on that field at that moment that were not making mistakes was the ASU defense. If I am a coach, I want my player to jump on that ball every time.

Agreed and well presented.

Steve
 

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