Zach Martin or Calvin Pryor?

Mitch

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On NFL Network's "Path to the Draft" last night, they engaged in a very interesting and compelling debate about whether the Cardinals should take T Zach Martin or SS Calvin Pryor, if both are on the board at #20.

Seeing as Steve Keim has not added any new pieces to compete at RT and SS, the NFL Network crew has done a good job of identifying the likely players who could be instant starters for the Cardinals...which is what the Cardinals want to do with their first round picks, is start them asap.

One of the new pundits on the NFL Network crew is former Bears' WR Curtis Conway. I have found Conway to be surprisingly well-prepared and insightful. Both he and Charlie Casserly have assigned a higher grade to SS Calvin Pryor...but they both feel that adding RT Zach Martin and continuing to improve the offensive line would be the best move for the Cardinals.

What's very interesting is that Conway has been raving about SS Deone Bucannon, whom Conway believes is a "first round talent" and is "just as talented as Ha Ha Clinton-Dix and Calvin Pryor."

Conway said he watched a ton of tape of Bucannon---and having done the same, I agree with him. Bucannon's size is very appealing (he can thrive in the box or in deep coverage---so are his ball hawking skills (6 ints. last year).

The problem is---if the scouts are as high on Bucannon as Conway is, Bucannon won't make it to pick #52.

The other thing is that Ha Ha Clinton-Dix is really much more of a FS than SS. While his size may tempt some to think he can play more in the box, I don't think HHCD fashions his game as an in the box SS , whereas Pryor and Bucannon are very used to playing up in base packages and deep in nickel and dime packages.

Therefore---for the sake of this argument---if the Cardinals want to draft starters at RT and SS in this draft---and Zach Martin, Calvin Pryor and Deone Bucannon are on the board---do you:

a). Take Martin and complete the upgrading of the offensive line?

b). Take Pryor and draft a tackle prospect at #52 of #84?

c). Take Bucannon because you like him the best, even though most pundits have Bucannon going in the 2nd round?

d). Do you try to trade back 5-15 picks...add extra draft picks and take Deone Bucannon late in the first or early in the second (depending on whom you trade with)?

I like all of these options.

If I had to make a choice here---I'd go with Martin and hope like crazy that Bucannon makes it to #52.

While I love Pryor...he reminds me a lot of A-Dub---he's a thumper, but not a consistent wrap-up tackler.

As for Zach Martin---he is so sound technically, in addition to being one of the most physical and highly competitive players in this draft.
 
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MWOOD92

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I would definitely, without a doubt, take Pryor over Martin. He is the better player IMO.
 

az jam

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I would take Martin and draft SS Ahmad Dixon Baylor in the third round.
He is 6' 212 lbs runs the 40 in 4.48 (college day).
Hee is writup on him by Dane Brugler NFL Draftscout.

STRENGTHS: Extremely fast downhill and loves to get his hands dirty in the run game, striking through his target with strong hands to finish. Dixon has an accurate first step with the quickness and range to play both sidelines with an alert, active mentality. Displays the feet and overall body coordination to hold up on an island if needed. Excellent size/speed athlete with the fluidity and natural speed to cover the entire field, making plays behind the line of scrimmage and in the deep half of the fieldWorks hard to shed blocks to make open-field stops and is a physical tackler. He is confident in coverage to jump routes and aggressively go after the ball.
WEAKNESSES: He still needs some technique and recognition work when it comes to coverage. Needs to consistently wrap up and not just hit his target with body shots.
 

WildBB

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I think this board really has a better feel for what the Cardinals would like to accomplish. DL/OLB has to be in the conversation. Just because Dockett isn't getting younger and there are still pass rush questions overall. I can see them waiting longer for the DL, but OLB still has some questions beyond this year. BUT I can see where immediate need presently plays into their (NFL networks) thinking.

That said both Zach Martin and Calvin Pryor are definitely in play @20. Buccannan; your right, maybe hoping he'll be there at 52 is a pipe dream, especially since the S position isn't deep this year. So we'd have to trade up some like the year we took Washington. Otherwise you consider that there wil be more OT's available @52 than S's. Morgan Moses, Antonio Richardon, Jack Mewhort and Joel Bitonio among others could all be available when we pick in the 2nd.

My gut is that Miami is a good match for Martin. But if both are available and from what the FO has said that getting bigger and more physical along both lines, Martin sure has the physical nasty side down pat. But Keim has also said that they need a bigger safety to match up with the TE's we've had so much trouble dealing with. Pryor doesn't really match up that well as he is under 6'0 and not really a top cover safety, per se. But he does a lot of things very well overall.

So if it came down to both being there, I think if things stay the way they are presentlty (I don't see it happening though) and Miami passes I'd be tempted to take Martin to play RT. BUT because of the uncertainty of SS, I would not take BPA, but address present biggest need - SS (Pryor). Especially since after 20 there's no sure bet player that will be available at out next pick - 52. RT's will be there (52) if it's still a need.

IF it were possible, and Buccannan isn't indeed far off on the evaluations by Cardinals scouts, then I trade down if it's the position I'm absolutely targeting at the #1 pick. There should be teams that make offers for picks in the 20's, and we have the first one. :)
 

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If Pryor's on the board at #20 I sprint like Ted Ginn with the card in hand to the podium, salivating as the pick is announced! :D I still think the Ravens, Cowpies, Stealers maybe even the Rams are likely landing spots for Calvin before we select. :mad:

Mewhort, Antonio Richardson, Moses or Turner could possibly be had to play RT in rd 2, with Hurst (whom I really like) a viable in rd 3 or 4.

Give me Pryor all day & everyday!!!
 
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Garthshort

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Take Martin, because he can play guard or tackle, and hope that Watford or Massie can start at either guard or tackle. If Martin isn't available, and just about all mocks have him going at pick #19, trading back towards the end of the first round and then picking Buchanon makes sense to me.
 

ajcardfan

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If Pryor's on the board at #20 I sprint like Ted Ginn with the card in hand to the podium, salivating as the pick is announced! :D I still think the Ravens, Cowpies & Stealers are likely landing spots for Calvin before we select. :mad:

Mewhort, Antonio Richardson, Moses or Turner could possibly be had to play RT in rd 2, with Hurst (whom I really like) a viable in rd 3 or 4.

Give me Pryor all day & everyday!!!

I agree. To me, it isn't even a question. Pryor is going to be elite.
 

Finito

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On NFL Network's "Path to the Draft" last night, they engaged in a very interesting and compelling debate about whether the Cardinals should take T Zach Martin or SS Calvin Pryor, if both are on the board at #20.

Seeing as Steve Keim has not added any new pieces to compete at RT and SS, the NFL Network crew has done a good job of identifying the likely players who could be instant starters for the Cardinals...which is what the Cardinals want to do with their first round picks, is start them asap.

One of the new pundits on the NFL Network crew is former Bears' WR Curtis Conway. I have found Conway to be surprisingly well-prepared and insightful. Both he and Charlie Casserly have assigned a higher grade to SS Calvin Pryor...but they both feel that adding RT Zach Martin and continuing to improve the offensive line would be the best move for the Cardinals.

What's very interesting is that Conway has been raving about SS Deone Bucannon, whom Conway believes is a "first round talent" and is "just as talented as Ha Ha Clinton-Dix and Calvin Pryor."

Conway said he watched a ton of tape of Bucannon---and having done the same, I agree with him. Bucannon's size is very appealing (he can thrive in the box or in deep coverage---so are his ball hawking skills (6 ints. last year).

The problem is---if the scouts are as high on Bucannon as Conway is, Bucannon won't make it to pick #52.

The other thing is that Ha Ha Clinton-Dix is really much more of a FS than SS. While his size may tempt some to think he can play more in the box, I don't think HHCD fashions his game as an in the box SS , whereas Pryor and Bucannon are very used to playing up in base packages and deep in nickel and dime packages.

Therefore---for the sake of this argument---if the Cardinals want to draft starters at RT and SS in this draft---and Zach Martin, Calvin Pryor and Deone Bucannon are on the board---do you:

a). Take Martin and complete the upgrading of the offensive line?

b). Take Pryor and draft a tackle prospect at #52 of #84?

c). Take Bucannon because you like him the best, even though most pundits have Bucannon going in the 2nd round?

d). Do you try to trade back 5-15 picks...add extra draft picks and take Deone Bucannon late in the first or early in the second (depending on whom you trade with)?

I like all of these options.

If I had to make a choice here---I'd go with Martin and hope like crazy that Bucannon makes it to #52.

While I love Pryor...he reminds me a lot of A-Dub---he's a thumper, but not a consistent wrap-up tackler.

As for Zach Martin---he is so sound technically, in addition to being one of the most physical and highly competitive players in this d .

Of those 2 I take PryorPryor everyday. In my opinion you don't take at best the 4th best player at his position in the first round. You have already drastically upgraded your line. You invested in Watford and you knew he was a project when you drafted him so let's see what he can do.

However if I'm the cardinals I don't pick either of these guys. I already explained why on Martin on Pryor not because he's bad but because the depth at safety is great this year. I would to get Buchanan, Loston or Dixon in round 2 if be happy with any of those guys.

I think if a great front 7 guy if there you take him Barr, Ealy, Ford, Shazier, Donald because those guys won't be there in round 2 but you can get a great safety in round 2
 

Southpaw

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Zach Martin or Morgan Moses. Unless Taylor Lewan ( with his new off the field transgression ) drops to 20. I am not a big fan of drafting safeties in the 1st round. Line depth is a primary concern.
 

Jetstream Green

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Zach Martin or Morgan Moses. Unless Taylor Lewan ( with his new off the field transgression ) drops to 20. I am not a big fan of drafting safeties in the 1st round. Line depth is a primary concern.

Line depth to me does not take priority over a starting safety in our division unless your talking about a starting RT which makes the others slated before his arrival as depth. I think during the draft there will be at least 5 players which will make it a interesting decision with the Cards :)
 

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I'd rather stick with Bobbie Massie than have THREE 1st year starters on the offensive line. At least Massie has one full accrued season of playing time.

I wouldn't be upset about Pryor, he's definitely a talent that jumps out at you. I just think we keep putting off drafting a talented OLB prospect every year, and when Abraham retires, we will have no viable pass rushing threat from the OLB position.
 

BigRedRage

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BPA

positional priorities:
#1 pass rush olb, not more okafor/acho types
#2 safety
#3 tight end


IMO. RT is low priority, massie and sowell can play.
 

PJ1

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Pryor for sure but I believe he will be gone before we pick. I also believe we will sign Winston and he, Massie and Sowell will battle it out for the RT slot.
 

cardfaninfl

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For close to a decade the Cardinals have been dancing around this huge, gaping, life-sucking-void of a hole called the offensive line. The only thing worse than ignoring the problem, would be only half-assing the solution. If Zack Martin falls to #20, there will probably be a number of other players that may be rated slightly higher, but this guy can play every position on the line. If not at RT, he could possibly be a Pro Bowl RG or the C for the next 10 years. Versatile, productive, smart, strong, polished technique, team captain, and one of the most competitive players eligible for this draft.
 

az jam

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For close to a decade the Cardinals have been dancing around this huge, gaping, life-sucking-void of a hole called the offensive line. The only thing worse than ignoring the problem, would be only half-assing the solution. If Zack Martin falls to #20, there will probably be a number of other players that may be rated slightly higher, but this guy can play every position on the line. If not at RT, he could possibly be a Pro Bowl RG or the C for the next 10 years. Versatile, productive, smart, strong, polished technique, team captain, and one of the most competitive players eligible for this draft.

Totally agree, image the Cards having top quality book end tackles (RT Martin & LT Veldheer) for the next ten years.
 

oaken1

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out of those two I would take Pryor....simply due to depth at the oline positions in the draft,...and the fact that currently the second best player in our secondary is a one year rental.,....until T-Mat gets back anyway...plus,...Peterson,Pryor, Honeybadger, Cromartie,...well, that secondary has a pretty sweet ring to it.

Plus, I am also a big fan of Hurst and it appears his stock is dropping..so he may be had as late as the fourth round.

more and more it looks to me like the Cards will address the pass rush in the first round...at DE or OLB, but more likely DE....then go for a safety in round two, with a TE or OT in rd 3 and the other in RD 4..............I just do not see this team spending a first day pick on a guy to play RT when those guys can be had throughout the draft.
 

Buckybird

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Your hoping he's going to be. ;)

He will be, book it!!! Unless of course the dreaded injury bug ruins his career. :stick:

Think of the nastiness this D would be with him starting from day 1. The Legion of Boom might take a back seat to Arizona Avengers with his arrival :D He's got the WOW factor IMO & adds a whooooooole differant element to this D, physically & mentally.
 

seesred

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I would take Pryor if the choose for our front office is Martin or him. That being said IMO w need a QB chasing bull for our first round pick.

GBR
40
 

Catfish

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I don't get where Martin will be available when we pick at #20. CBS Sportsline has him going to either the Cowboys at #16 or the Dolphins at #19. Three of their experts including Rob Rang say the Dolphins. If he is available at #20, he should be in serious consideration for us, (providing that Keim doesn't re-sign Eric Winston in free agency). I am betting that he will do that, and that we will then either be talking about a replacement for DD at defensive end, or a safety (which I would give the edge to Prior over Buchannon).
 

juza76

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I read the cardinals will work out a safety lonnie ballantine memphis
He is 6'3'' 218lb run 4.38 vertical leap 38 bench 24
Someone know something about this kid?
 

Catfish

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Line depth to me does not take priority over a starting safety in our division unless your talking about a starting RT which makes the others slated before his arrival as depth. I think during the draft there will be at least 5 players which will make it a interesting decision with the Cards :)

Typically, Keim and Arians expect their #1 pick to be a capable instant starter, whether it is an OT, a Safety, or a DE. If they go with a DE, they can work him into the lineup by spelling DD, but I do believe they would expect both Martin or Prior/Buchannan to start immediately at SS.
 

BW52

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If the pundits are right the pass rushing options available at #20 could be Ryan Shazier OLB,DeMarcus Lawrence DE-OLB,Koney Ealy DE,Dee Ford DE-OLB and Trent Murphy DE-OLB.................Ford,Lawrence,Murphy all will be likely learning OLB.So that says Kony or Shazier if you want a ROUND 1 pass rusher
Guys around RD 2 could be Van Noy OLB,Attachoau OLB maybe Hubbard OLB,Marcus Smith and Chris Smith DE maybe RD 3 or so.
Clowney,Mack,Barr all probably gone before #20.
 

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