Who is now happy with the way Graves did contracts last year?

[Heucrazy]

I remember a lot of people being really mad and slamming Graves for the way he did contracts last year instead of spreading out the cap hits.

Whose glad now that he did it that way and the Cards actually have cap room?

Whose ready to admit that maybe Graves isn't a complete idiot?

Who still hates him anyway?

 

[sundevilscott]

Until we win something then I think just about everyone hates him.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I remember a lot of people being really mad and slamming Graves for the way he did contracts last year instead of spreading out the cap hits.

Whose glad now that he did it that way and the Cards actually have cap room?

Whose ready to admit that maybe Graves isn't a complete idiot?

Who still hates him anyway?

I hate how he did it. Instead of doing the bonuses like he did, he could have restructured Fitz last year for less money.

 

[Russ Smith]

I remember a lot of people being really mad and slamming Graves for the way he did contracts last year instead of spreading out the cap hits.

Whose glad now that he did it that way and the Cards actually have cap room?

Whose ready to admit that maybe Graves isn't a complete idiot?

Who still hates him anyway?

Didn't we cut 2 guys and restructure Fitz because we were out of caproom?

 

[Heucrazy]

I still hate him anyway but I have to admit that I no longer think he's a complete idiot and I'm glad he did the contracts last year the way he did so there would be cap room this year.

 

[Heucrazy]

Didn't we cut 2 guys and restructure Fitz because we were out of caproom?

Yeah and after that we now have cap room. Imagine if he had turned those roster bonuses last year into signing bonuses like everyone wanted and we were taking a hit from them still. :shudder:

 

[BigRedRage]

I dont see how we have so much cap room.....he isnt off the hook until we win and continue winning.

 

[BigRedRage]

Yeah and after that we now have cap room. Imagine if he had turned those roster bonuses last year into signing bonuses like everyone wanted and we were taking a hit from them still. :shudder:

also, he was signing players that were iffy, thats why he did it that way, so we could cut holt.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yeah and after that we now have cap room. Imagine if he had turned those roster bonuses last year into signing bonuses like everyone wanted and we were taking a hit from them still. :shudder:

Imagine if he'd spent the money last year on a new contract for Fitz? the deal would be lower and we'd have caproom this year anyways.

I agree with Joe that there's somewhat of an excuse for not thinking Fitz would hit his escalators, but here we are again in mid march and we have to worry about Dansby's deal and we're still looking at other guys who might need new deals. Last year we were told repeatedly that Graves was ahead of the curve, his roster bonuses last year would lead to lots of caproom this year to sign our own and pick up key other pieces. Right now we didn't even have enough room to sign our own without cutting guys Rod signed in previous FA "seasons." Admittedly they stunk, but again, Rod signed them.

I don't hate Graves but I do wonder how a team who went to such lengths last year to save caproom this year found themselves out of caproom so quickly?

I guess I shouldn't complain we already knew we weren't planning to sign a lot of FA's anyways, but remember the whole point last year was to have lots of room this year, where did it all go?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I don't get the logic. You are praising Graves for the foresight to structure contracts so we have cap room for Fitz's monster cap hit yet he didn't have the foresight to re-structure Fitz prior his monster cap hit . Doesn't make any sense. There was an article, i'm not sure if it was Somers,Urban,Bickley, or whoever, that said the Cards didn't expect Fitz to reach the pro-bowl again,triggering the monster hit, because of Whiz's run based offense and runing the ball 55% of the time. So, i think, i no way, did Graves have Fitz's contract on his mind when dealing with last year's free agency. And yes, i still have severe reservations about his ability as a GM.

 

[joeshmo]

Yeah and after that we now have cap room. Imagine if he had turned those roster bonuses last year into signing bonuses like everyone wanted and we were taking a hit from them still. :shudder:

Already posted it in other threads concerning this. Giving even just a ratio of 50-50 signing bonus to roster bonus ratio we would have only had an extra 1.5 Mill on this years cap, but would have saved over 4 Mill last season to get more depth which we ended up needing badly.

Cut Shipp this season and we are in the same shape as we are now without losing any production.

His theory of using more roster bonuses is a great one IMO, but the amount that he did it at was not. 50-50 ratio I think is an awesome idea to make the team better now and to help the team in the future. .

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

also, he was signing players that were iffy, thats why he did it that way, so we could cut holt.

I think Graves stated as much at one point. He said something to the point that if the guys don't work out, they would be easier to release.

 

[40yearfan]

Imagine if he'd spent the money last year on a new contract for Fitz? the deal would be lower and we'd have caproom this year anyways.

I agree with Joe that there's somewhat of an excuse for not thinking Fitz would hit his escalators, but here we are again in mid march and we have to worry about Dansby's deal and we're still looking at other guys who might need new deals. Last year we were told repeatedly that Graves was ahead of the curve, his roster bonuses last year would lead to lots of caproom this year to sign our own and pick up key other pieces. Right now we didn't even have enough room to sign our own without cutting guys Rod signed in previous FA "seasons." Admittedly they stunk, but again, Rod signed them.

I don't hate Graves but I do wonder how a team who went to such lengths last year to save caproom this year found themselves out of caproom so quickly?

I guess I shouldn't complain we already knew we weren't planning to sign a lot of FA's anyways, but remember the whole point last year was to have lots of room this year, where did it all go?

Russ, was that RG saying he was structuring those contracts to make cap room for this year or just some of us on this board? I don't recall him ever saying that, but I do remember speculating myself that that was the reasoning behind it.

 

[Heucrazy]

Russ, was that RG saying he was structuring those contracts to make cap room for this year or just some of us on this board? I don't recall him ever saying that, but I do remember speculating myself that that was the reasoning behind it.

As do I. I also remember being pissed off about it. Now not so much.

 

[Mulli]

I am nonplussed.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ, was that RG saying he was structuring those contracts to make cap room for this year or just some of us on this board? I don't recall him ever saying that, but I do remember speculating myself that that was the reasoning behind it.

I don't remember but if it wasn't RG ask yourself what other reason was there for doing it?

At the end of the day I judge cap management by how we sit capwise and right now it seems to me we have a lot less caproom than I was told we'd have a year ago.

I'm glad we kept Fitz mind you and I have no real problem with franchising Dansby so we don't lose him, but I'm not going to go out and give Rod a cigar for his cap management when we were that low on caproom that we had to do what we did.

At least we did it and didn't just trade Fitz and hold on to guys like Ross and Holt to avoid admitting mistakes.

 

[40yearfan]

I don't remember but if it wasn't RG ask yourself what other reason was there for doing it?

At the end of the day I judge cap management by how we sit capwise and right now it seems to me we have a lot less caproom than I was told we'd have a year ago.

I'm glad we kept Fitz mind you and I have no real problem with franchising Dansby so we don't lose him, but I'm not going to go out and give Rod a cigar for his cap management when we were that low on caproom that we had to do what we did.

At least we did it and didn't just trade Fitz and hold on to guys like Ross and Holt to avoid admitting mistakes.

The way I look at it is are the Cards better now than they were 4-5 years ago when RG took over? My answer is a resounding yes. He may not be perfect, but he has managed to take the Cards out of the dark ages, give them a decent coach and some decent players and made them look like a professional football team. Anyone who thinks this isn't a great accomplishment hasn't followed this team for very long. Not only that, but we managed to retain our good players, something the previous Cards teams had never been able to do.

Why there is such an intent hatred of the man, I just don't understand (not talking about you Russ).

 

[joeshmo]

The way I look at it is are the Cards better now than they were 4-5 years ago when RG took over? My answer is a resounding yes. He may not be perfect, but he has managed to take the Cards out of the dark ages, give them a decent coach and some decent players and made them look like a professional football team. Anyone who thinks this isn't a great accomplishment hasn't followed this team for very long. Not only that, but we managed to retain our good players, something the previous Cards teams had never been able to do.

Why there is such an intent hatred of the man, I just don't understand (not talking about you Russ).

There is your reason right there in bold. 4-5 years to get to 8-8. 4-5 years of patience is not possible unless you drink, and I think you are a raging alchoholic, not that there is anything wrong with that if you dont drive.

 

[40yearfan]

There is your reason right there in bold. 4-5 years to get to 8-8. 4-5 years of patience is not possible unless you drink, and I think you are a raging alchoholic, not that there is anything wrong with that if you dont drive.

You've been waiting 4 or 5 years. I've been waiting since the mid 70's.

 

[Mulli]

You've been waiting 4 or 5 years. I've been waiting since the mid 70's.

Did they play football in the 1870's?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Didn't we cut 2 guys and restructure Fitz because we were out of caproom?

I wanted Holt cut, even if it cost us cap space, vs. freeing up some.

 

[joeshmo]

Did they play football in the 1870's?

 

[40yearfan]

Did they play football in the 1870's?

Yes, it was the Fayetteville Cardinals back then and I was on the team. There were only 6 guys in the whole town, so we had a 6 person football team.

Didn't win many games unless we played St. Libory or Albers. They only had 4 man teams.

We'd have won a lot more games, but our kicker got kicked in the head by one of the horses and it kinda screwed up his sight. Everything went wide left.

 

[Russ Smith]

I wanted Holt cut, even if it cost us cap space, vs. freeing up some.

Agreed. But cutting a guy you signed because he stunk is not great GM skills. It's like putting out a fire you started, it doesn't make you a hero, just means at least you're smart enough to put it out.

 

[Heucrazy]

Yes, it was the Fayetteville Cardinals back then and I was on the team. There were only 6 guys in the whole town, so we had a 6 person football team.

Didn't win many games unless we played St. Libory or Albers. They only had 4 man teams.

We'd have won a lot more games, but our kicker got kicked in the head by one of the horses and it kinda screwed up his sight. Everything went wide left.

Does his great great grandson play for the Cards now?