Why you fire Kingsbury now

K1Day1

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A) if you think that’s my position you haven’t read this board much at all. I’ve very clearly stated that this kind of meltdown takes a bunch of contributors including, but not limited to, kyler, Vance, keim, and injuries. But yes, kliff and his EVERY SINGLE YEAR meltdowns.

B) I am a firm believer that you are who you are in the moment. At the end of the year this was not a good football team. That’s who we are at present.

You're absolutely right. I haven't read alot of this board. I am an older member than some but a much newer member than many... Thanks for making me feel so welcome SMH ! ! !
What they did prove is that they were a team who could beat any other team. That's who they are at the present. I watched them win against a Cowboys team that all the talking heads picked them to lose too.
I still stand by my point. No matter what Kingsbury did in college. This is the NFL, so you can quit with that EVERY SINGLE YEAR stuff. The guy has coached in the NFL for 3 years. I repeat 3 years ! ! !By your logic of including college coaching records into NFL coaching records, Nick Saban and Erving Myer should recieve NFL coaching jobs again because they have proven that with their over all 2nd half records that they can finish strong.
If you want to talk about every year meltdowns, talk about Dallas, Minnesota, 49ers superbowl, Rams superbowl. Still makes no sense to throw a guy under the bus after 3 years as an NFL head coach (Especially when that's what ALL the talking heads want to talk about) and the guy has actually more wins than any of some teams coaches in their entire tenure, and if you would like to bring up that this is Kingsbury's track record. Than my simple response is that Nick Saban and Irving Meyer are PERFECT EXAMPLES as to why you can't include a college coaching record into an NFL coaching record...
 
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Stout

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Dunno how you mean. I didn’t want to do this, but, I mean . . .

1. the defensive linemen that you were crowing about pretty much sucked.

2. AJ Green turned out to be hollow numbers.

3. JJ Watt didn’t stay healthy.

4. Conner was a surprise but also didn’t stay healthy.

5. Neither did Edmonds.

6. Neither did Hudson.

7. Neither did alford

8. The entire cornerback suite ended up poor by years end. Marco wasn’t ready for what was thrown at him.

9. Keims draft netted little performance this season. Again.

10. Chandler jones was thoroughly mediocre.

I think those were most of the darksiders takes preseason.

Oh, and you and I both predicted a similar range of final record, which finished at the high end of the range. So I guess we had a wash there.

Yep. But, hey, we were crazy lol
 

Stout

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You're absolutely right. I haven't read alot of this board. I am an older member than some but a much newer member than many... Thanks for making me feel so welcome SMH ! ! !
What they did prove is that they were a team who could beat any other team. That's who they are at the present. I watched them win against a Cowboys team that all the talking heads picked them to lose too.
I still stand by my point. No matter what Kingsbury did in college. This is the NFL, so you can quit with that EVERY SINGLE YEAR stuff. The guy has coached in the NFL for 3 years. I repeat 3 years ! ! !By your logic of including college coaching records into NFL coaching records, Nick Saban and Erving Myer should recieve NFL coaching jobs again because they have proven that with their over all 2nd half records that they can finish strong.
If you want to talk about every year meltdowns, talk about Dallas, Minnesota, 49ers superbowl, Rams superbowl. Still makes no sense to throw a guy under the bus after 3 years as an NFL head coach (Especially when that's what ALL the talking heads want to talk about) and the guy has actually more wins than any of some teams coaches in their entire tenure, and if you would like to bring up that this is Kingsbury's track record. Than my simple response is that Nick Saban and Irving Meyer are PERFECT EXAMPLES as to why you can't include a college coaching record into an NFL coaching record...
So, okay, it's a trend 3 out of 3 years and he has yet to win a clinching game of any kind in something like 8 tries. That doesn't look good either.
 

LoyalRam

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I don't know if the report is true that Bidwill is not paying Kingsberry and staff playoff bonuses, you might as well fire everyone. Regardless of how the playoffs turned out, the Cards made the post season, when 18 out of 32 teams didn't. it might be satisfying to "pay them back" by stiffing them on these bonuses, but every prospective coach out there won't forget this. The final result sucked, but still, the number of days spent away from family, hours spent at the facility is something that can be acknowledged by a little extra Bidwill cash. If Bidwill does this, he might as well fire them all, right now and start fresh with those who are desperate for a job that might shaft them if they deliver a post season like Kingsberry did. Hopefully it's not true.

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Jetstream Green

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We live in this age of specialization now, or that is what one is led to believe but yet so many times in the NFL it seems to turn into a fiasco of mediocre multitasking. I believe fans of all the teams can see this to some degree, while the Cardinals are a poster child for the scenario. Right now, we have a good OC but he's the head coach which cannot game manage or seemingly control or inspire his men. We have a GM who cannot draft, but is great at free agency (he really is compared to the success rate of other teams) but since he controls the draft he has to rely on free agency that even when good has a low percentage rate which has contracts resulting in a cap space cluster$#@^... we basically have sails but no rudder, a destination but no cargo, and a myriad of other metaphors for a team with a OC but no head coach and a free agent dealer who is unable to draft
 

slanidrac16

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We live in this age of specialization now, or that is what one is led to believe but yet so many times in the NFL it seems to turn into a fiasco of mediocre multitasking. I believe fans of all the teams can see this to some degree, while the Cardinals are a poster child for the scenario. Right now, we have a good OC but he's the head coach which cannot game manage or seemingly control or inspire his men. We have a GM who cannot draft, but is great at free agency (he really is compared to the success rate of other teams) but since he controls the draft he has to rely on free agency that even when good has a low percentage rate which has contracts resulting in a cap space cluster$#@^... we basically have sails but no rudder, a destination but no cargo, and a myriad of other metaphors for a team with a OC but no head coach and a free agent dealer who is unable to draft
Well said. Our failure in the draft consistently sets this team back both on the field and cap wise.
We are forced to sign one year prove it deals and if they pan out we can’t sign them the following year.
Our oline ALWAYS has one or two weak links and god forbid an injury.
We’ve drafted 2 wr’s yet our receiving corp is slow and small except for Hopkins, which came through a trade.
We drafted two linebackers in the first round but most of us believe our linebacking corp sucks.
Our rb corp is depleted. We would like Conner and Edmonds back but it appears we can’t afford both AND there is no guarantee Conner will give us a discount. Add to that we have Ward and Benjamin behind them that between them have touch the ball 20 times in two years?

I see us as a team in trouble. We can’t effectively shore up all the shortcomings of this team. So once again Keim will be looking to catch lightning in a bottle with prove it deals to oft injured or ageing players.
 

Krangodnzr

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13? I know Kingsbury coached six years at Texas Tech & three with the Cardinals... what other four years are you counting?

The fact that it's happened three years in a row with the Cardinals is very concerning, and makes the pattern at Texas Tech suspicious; however, I already posted about the six years at Texas Tech: in every year, Kingsbury won nearly every game against below-.500 teams and lost almost every game against above-.500 teams. The fact that the schedule was backloaded with better teams every year entirely explains the fact that Texas Tech lost more games in the second half of every season.

...dave
I don't think a lot of posters really understand how much the talent disparity matters in college football.

TT basically beat up on the Eastern Washingtons early in the season then lost to OU, OSU, Texas, and Baylor every year. Often those teams were ranked.

Even in 2019 it doesnt really fit the pattern of this year. The Cardinals around midseason had a substantially tougher schedule. They were coming off a season where they had the top pick in the damn draft and then they hit a patch of teams with winning records. Murray was also banged up by that point.

I think more than anything else, the Cardinals issues are related to team health, and mostly to Murray's health. When he gets banged up, the team struggles.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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I don't think a lot of posters really understand how much the talent disparity matters in college football.

TT basically beat up on the Eastern Washingtons early in the season then lost to OU, OSU, Texas, and Baylor every year. Often those teams were ranked.

Even in 2019 it doesnt really fit the pattern of this year. The Cardinals around midseason had a substantially tougher schedule. They were coming off a season where they had the top pick in the damn draft and then they hit a patch of teams with winning records. Murray was also banged up by that point.

I think more than anything else, the Cardinals issues are related to team health, and mostly to Murray's health. When he gets banged up, the team struggles.
Who’s job was it it to find the talent? Plenty of schools with less resources and comparable competition outperformed the guy over that span.

Kliff is lazy and dumb. Was at TTU and is with the Cardinals. Not sure why you spend so much time caring about defending Kliff when he never cared enough to take his profession seriously.
 

Hoodhero

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Who’s job was it it to find the talent? Plenty of schools with less resources and comparable competition outperformed the guy over that span.

Kliff is lazy and dumb. Was at TTU and is with the Cardinals. Not sure why you spend so much time caring about defending Kliff when he never cared enough to take his profession seriously.
K2 obviously got his issues but calling him lazy & dumb is a step too far.
 

Krangodnzr

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Who’s job was it it to find the talent? Plenty of schools with less resources and comparable competition outperformed the guy over that span.
Cool story. Examples.
Kliff is lazy and dumb. Was at TTU and is with the Cardinals. Not sure why you spend so much time caring about defending Kliff when he never cared enough to take his profession seriously.
Character assassination.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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Cool story. Examples.

Character assassination.
In addition to Cheese's examples don't forget him being outperformed within his own conference by the likes of Iowa State and Kansas State. Probably a dozen or more other programs with similar football budgets as TTU that had better records during that time.

Regarding "character assassination" of him being an unserious professional:
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Krangodnzr

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Dunno how you mean. I didn’t want to do this, but, I mean . . .

1. the defensive linemen that you were crowing about pretty much sucked.
I didn't "crow" about them. They weren't the disaster you were whining about in the preseason either.

The Cardinals run defense finished the year around middle of the pack, not great, but not a disaster either.
2. AJ Green turned out to be hollow numbers.
He fizzled when he was needed to be the #1 certainly, but was more than adequate when Hopkins was healthy. Still significantly better than Fitz which was the primary argument by the rest of us.
3. JJ Watt didn’t stay healthy.
Nope.
4. Conner was a surprise but also didn’t stay healthy.
Few backs do for 16 or now 17 games.
5. Neither did Edmonds.
Didn't expect he would either.
6. Neither did Hudson.
That was a mild surprise, but his injury didn't tank the season either.
7. Neither did alford
Didn't expect him to. He actually exceeded my expectations, which is one of the primary reasons the Cardinals were top ten against the pass.
8. The entire cornerback suite ended up poor by years end. Marco wasn’t ready for what was thrown at him.
And yet, objectively they were a top ten ranked defense. Good enough to win with.
9. Keims draft netted little performance this season. Again.
Not a Keim fan.
10. Chandler jones was thoroughly mediocre.
Expected that after missing a year.
I think those were most of the darksiders takes preseason.
You are a mild darksider. Most of the darkside expected a losing record.
Oh, and you and I both predicted a similar range of final record, which finished at the high end of the range. So I guess we had a wash there.
Honestly when I talk about "darkside", I'm rarely referring to you in particular. We aren't that far off.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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Have tons of talent.

Kliff wasn't a good recruiter. That's not germane to his current position.
There’s an expression in the business world: how a person does one thing is how they do everything.

I have major concerns about a guy who wasn’t willing or able to become a good recruiter (if that was his only downfall at TTU like you insist) at his own alma mater having the talent and willingness to make the sacrifices to become a successful NFL coach. I had those concerns when we hired him and I still do.

Sorry but that’s the cold hard truth here.
 

Krangodnzr

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There’s an expression in the business world: how a person does one thing is how they do everything.
Recruiting is a personality thing.

Funny that all of these top recruiters that have come to NFL have sucked as HCs.
I have major concerns about a guy who wasn’t willing or able to become a good recruiter (if that was his only downfall at TTU like you insist) at his own alma mater having the talent and willingness to make the sacrifices to become a successful NFL coach.
I insist? I know. This isn't an opinion thing, Texas Tech routinely had very lowly ranked recruiting classes and few NFL draft picks.
I had those concerns when we hired him and I still do.

Sorry but that’s the cold hard truth here.
Right. You were biased from day one.
 

cheesebeef

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There’s an expression in the business world: how a person does one thing is how they do everything.

I have major concerns about a guy who wasn’t willing or able to become a good recruiter (if that was his only downfall at TTU like you insist) at his own alma mater having the talent and willingness to make the sacrifices to become a successful NFL coach. I had those concerns when we hired him and I still do.

Sorry but that’s the cold hard truth here.
Not to mention it’s part of his duties as a HC that he totally shirked.

And he’s continued to do that as a HC in the NFL where he totally shirked responsibility for putting a full staff together, allowing Keim to put his entire defensive staff together.

Head Coach, at either college or pro is an all-encompassing job where the coach must have an impact on every level of the team. Whether it was recruiting or being able to put together a staff at the pro level, Kliff hasn’t been able to do it, both of which to the detriment of his teams.

It’s what makes him a glorified OC and nothing more, while trying to pose as a leader of the team... which he’s only responsible for pieces of I.T.
 

Krangodnzr

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Not to mention it’s part of his duties as a HC that he totally shirked.
He couldn't totally shirk it LOL, or he wouldn't have a team.

The hyperbole!
And he’s continued to do that as a HC in the NFL where he totally shirked responsibility for putting a full staff together, allowing Keim to put his entire defensive staff together.
You'd want an outsider who has no contacts to build his staff? That's sounds like a horrible idea.
Head Coach, at either college or pro is an all-encompassing job where the coach must have an impact on every level of the team.
Not even close to true. College HCs have significantly more responsibility.
Whether it was recruiting or being able to put together a staff at the pro level, Kliff hasn’t been able to do it, both of which to the detriment of his teams.
Again, why have someone who doesn't really know any NFL colleges pick his staff?
It’s what makes him a glorified OC and nothing more, while trying to pose as a leader of the team... which he’s only responsible for pieces of I.T.
This Mitchellism is hilarious. Tell me Walt about what is going on the locker room?
 

cheesebeef

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He couldn't totally shirk it LOL, or he wouldn't have a team.

The hyperbole!

You'd want an outsider who has no contacts to build his staff? That's sounds like a horrible idea.

Not even close to true. College HCs have significantly more responsibility.

Again, why have someone who doesn't really know any NFL colleges pick his staff?

This Mitchellism is hilarious. Tell me Walt about what is going on the locker room?
You’re going big mad and name calling early Krango. Pace yourself. It’s not even lunch time.

First... am I wrong that he’s only a glorified OC? He’s admitted he’s not good at game management and he leaves the defense to Vance. So, if you’re really going to be laser focused on calling plays, not going to manage the game well and take your hands completely off the D, what is he doing besides playing the role of OC?

More... hiring a guy with no ability to hire his own staff is the problem in the first place, Krango. Giving an unqualified coach the reigns to the team, but not all of them immediately makes a dent in his ability to lead, IMO.

And I think a void of leadership from the top is one of the main reasons we fell apart. Kliff was great as a front runner, but when his teams repeatedly crater in the second half of NFL seasons, that shows me he can’t adjust or deal with adversity, both of which are hallmarks of a good leader.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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Recruiting is a personality thing.

Funny that all of these top recruiters that have come to NFL have sucked as HCs.

I insist? I know. This isn't an opinion thing, Texas Tech routinely had very lowly ranked recruiting classes and few NFL draft picks.

Right. You were biased from day one.
1. Recruiting is effort not personality. Chip Kelly for example has a terrible personality but works in college as he knows how to and spends his time on player evaluation.
2. As others have said - Harbaugh, Carroll, Jimmy Johnson, etc.
3. Who's fault was that?
4. Yes, I am biased as I assumed (correctly) that a coach who sucked in college would continue to do so in the pros where's the competition is significantly harder.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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You're absolutely right. I haven't read alot of this board. I am an older member than some but a much newer member than many... Thanks for making me feel so welcome SMH ! ! !
What they did prove is that they were a team who could beat any other team. That's who they are at the present. I watched them win against a Cowboys team that all the talking heads picked them to lose too.
I still stand by my point. No matter what Kingsbury did in college. This is the NFL, so you can quit with that EVERY SINGLE YEAR stuff. The guy has coached in the NFL for 3 years. I repeat 3 years ! ! !By your logic of including college coaching records into NFL coaching records, Nick Saban and Erving Myer should recieve NFL coaching jobs again because they have proven that with their over all 2nd half records that they can finish strong.
If you want to talk about every year meltdowns, talk about Dallas, Minnesota, 49ers superbowl, Rams superbowl. Still makes no sense to throw a guy under the bus after 3 years as an NFL head coach (Especially when that's what ALL the talking heads want to talk about) and the guy has actually more wins than any of some teams coaches in their entire tenure, and if you would like to bring up that this is Kingsbury's track record. Than my simple response is that Nick Saban and Irving Meyer are PERFECT EXAMPLES as to why you can't include a college coaching record into an NFL coaching record...
You’re entitled to your opinion. I think you’re analysis is poor if you exclude any data. Particularly data that evidences patterns. But that’s just me. I like to be thorough.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I don't think a lot of posters really understand how much the talent disparity matters in college football.

TT basically beat up on the Eastern Washingtons early in the season then lost to OU, OSU, Texas, and Baylor every year. Often those teams were ranked.

Even in 2019 it doesnt really fit the pattern of this year. The Cardinals around midseason had a substantially tougher schedule. They were coming off a season where they had the top pick in the damn draft and then they hit a patch of teams with winning records. Murray was also banged up by that point.

I think more than anything else, the Cardinals issues are related to team health, and mostly to Murray's health. When he gets banged up, the team struggles.
Every team has injuries. To chalk up three straight slides to injury is making excuses imo.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I didn't "crow" about them. They weren't the disaster you were whining about in the preseason either.

The Cardinals run defense finished the year around middle of the pack, not great, but not a disaster either.

He fizzled when he was needed to be the #1 certainly, but was more than adequate when Hopkins was healthy. Still significantly better than Fitz which was the primary argument by the rest of us.

Nope.

Few backs do for 16 or now 17 games.

Didn't expect he would either.

That was a mild surprise, but his injury didn't tank the season either.

Didn't expect him to. He actually exceeded my expectations, which is one of the primary reasons the Cardinals were top ten against the pass.

And yet, objectively they were a top ten ranked defense. Good enough to win with.

Not a Keim fan.

Expected that after missing a year.

You are a mild darksider. Most of the darkside expected a losing record.

Honestly when I talk about "darkside", I'm rarely referring to you in particular. We aren't that far off.
We are likely immediate shades on either side of the same line. But our discussions weirdly paints a much greater divide. When I look back at them and where we end up I typically chuckle.
 
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