Three Things Can Be Right at the Same Time

TJ

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Kliff can be a lousy coach who can’t call plays, can’t lead, and can’t develop talent

Keim could suck at drafting productive players onto the roster giving the coaches the talent they need to be successful

Kyler could take the position more seriously, play more intelligent football and be more likable

There isn’t a who’s worse at their job situation. Interchangeably, these three are a part of the problem and need to get better at their respective jobs
 

GoldGloveschmidt

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I don't think there is anybody on the board who doesn't believe that there are problems at every level. The order of blame is up for debate. I start from the top personally. Bidwill, Keim, Kliff, Kyler.
 

kerouac9

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We have the same problem now that we had in January: all the dudes at the top of the organization are weak and flawed.

Hard to think of a successful organization in a competitive environment where the top four leaders are all so embarrassing or second-rate.

The best leader in the building might be Vance Joseph and he’s gonna get run out as soon as we’re four games under .500.
 

Zalixar

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We have the same problem now that we had in January: all the dudes at the top of the organization are weak and flawed.

Hard to think of a successful organization in a competitive environment where the top four leaders are all so embarrassing or second-rate.

The best leader in the building might be Vance Joseph and he’s gonna get run out as soon as we’re four games under .500.
And he's gunna be the sacrificial lamb.
 

Cheesebeef

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We have the same problem now that we had in January: all the dudes at the top of the organization are weak and flawed.

Hard to think of a successful organization in a competitive environment where the top four leaders are all so embarrassing or second-rate.

The best leader in the building might be Vance Joseph and he’s gonna get run out as soon as we’re four games under .500.
There’s just no way anything good can come out from the initials KKK…
 

cardpa

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Kliff can be a lousy coach who can’t call plays, can’t lead, and can’t develop talent

Keim could suck at drafting productive players onto the roster giving the coaches the talent they need to be successful

Kyler could take the position more seriously, play more intelligent football and be more likable

There isn’t a who’s worse at their job situation. Interchangeably, these three are a part of the problem and need to get better at their respective jobs
The likelihood of this happening are slim to none when the guy believes he's already there.
 

RON_IN_OC

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Kliff can be a lousy coach who can’t call plays, can’t lead, and can’t develop talent

Keim could suck at drafting productive players onto the roster giving the coaches the talent they need to be successful

Kyler could take the position more seriously, play more intelligent football and be more likable

There isn’t a who’s worse at their job situation. Interchangeably, these three are a part of the problem and need to get better at their respective jobs
I'll go out on a limb and say that Kyler hasn't been a problem at all really. He's cleaned up some frustrating parts of his game, like not taking what the defense gives him and forcing passes downfield that get intercepted. I honestly think, too, that he has been more likable and has stepped up to the plate quite a bit since signing the extension. Just how I'm seeing it.
 

Stout

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I'll go out on a limb and say that Kyler hasn't been a problem at all really. He's cleaned up some frustrating parts of his game, like not taking what the defense gives him and forcing passes downfield that get intercepted. I honestly think, too, that he has been more likable and has stepped up to the plate quite a bit since signing the extension. Just how I'm seeing it.
Um, really? So you basically didn't see any problems from him this past week? You know, where he made incorrect reads, tried to force the ball downfield when he had players open for the first down, slid in-bounds during the hurryup offense at the end of the game, and--

You know what? You've stated already that you don't see the problems. I have no idea what I can tell ya, Ron. Really, I don't. We are at polar opposites on the topic here.
 

football karma

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Bidwill is the owner, so by definition he is culpable.

But if i were in his shoes, my attribution in order:

Keim by a mile
then Kyler
then Kliff (and the last two are tough: is Kyler limited by Kliff, or vice versa?)


Keim had a series of decisions to make this offseason ( i wont even touch prior seasons) -- and so far he whiffed on nearly all of them:

the biggest, strategic decision was basically that the "real" team was weeks 1-10, not 11-18 and therefore could be more or less run back.

Tactically:

1. Kirk vs. a first rounder on Hollywood. I get the money -- but if last offseason he had tried he likely could have extended for less than what Kirk got. i rate this a miss because they have cap room right now, suggesting he could have fit Kirk in, and, saved #23 to address a need with a cost controlled player for 5 years.

2. Connor over Edmonds. Not only would Edmonds have been cheaper, but provides an explosiveness currently lacking -- especially against the shell defenses currently employed vs the Cardinals. Darrell Williams has come in and filled the big back / power guy who can also catch. I am realizing this is a bigger deal than i thought at the time.

3. No real plan for a Chandler Jones replacement

4. Assuming the run defense would be fixed by JJ Watt. Maybe the pass rush too.

5. Resigning AJ Green. This is the same guy from the end of last year, but the hands are worse.
 

BritCard

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We have the same problem now that we had in January: all the dudes at the top of the organization are weak and flawed.

Hard to think of a successful organization in a competitive environment where the top four leaders are all so embarrassing or second-rate.

The best leader in the building might be Vance Joseph and he’s gonna get run out as soon as we’re four games under .500.

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Arz101

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Not recognizing and re-signing Kirk last year and spending a first rounder for a 5'9" receiver on a last year of his contract is ≤<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
 

kerouac9

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Why do people say this? There's at least some track record of success with Kyler, absolutely none with Kliff.
Because it's basically the same track record — at least in the NFL? In college the results are equally muddied.

Kliff orchestrated extremely productive offenses and college but never found a way to consistently win, especially as the season went along.

Kyler had one good college season and immediately failed completely in the one game that really mattered. Meanwhile the QBs that preceded and succeeded him were as productive.

We're stuck with both for the next two years (probably). If Kliff can't pull this together, I'll be much more comfortable betting that an incandescent talent like Kyler's can be made more consistent even for a shorter term than Kliff can be an above-average head coach for the long term.

IMO, a great head coach is more valuable than a very good quarterback, but you'd always have a very good quarterback than an average or below average head coach.
 

football karma

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Why do people say this? There's at least some track record of success with Kyler, absolutely none with Kliff.
Colt McCoy ran a very capable offense with Kyler out, winning two division games in the process
 

Chopper0080

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Colt McCoy ran a very capable offense with Kyler out, winning two division games in the process
Which is why I have been soft on Kliff but his job is to be able to get that out of Kyler and not enabling Kyler to do his own thing. That is on kliff.
 

football karma

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Which is why I have been soft on Kliff but his job is to be able to get that out of Kyler and not enabling Kyler to do his own thing. That is on kliff.
i dont disagree with this --

i think coaching matters, but its mostly roster, thus me putting Keim 1st. As an example, watching the Giants last night: one one hand you see a the designs of a functioning offense by Brian Dabol and how much better Jones looks. On the other, there is only so much you can do with Daniel Jones and that o-line.
 

DVontel

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Colt McCoy ran a very capable offense with Kyler out, winning two division games in the process
Are people going to continue using this super small sample size as opposed to the *much* larger sample size about Kliff’s history with other QBs? Are you legitimately being serious?

Rewatch those games. It was the same scheme. No motion, no WR movement, just a lot of ad-libbing, in which Colt did a lot, especially in that Niners’ game. The Panthers’ loss happened, too. Lets not continue to ignore that.
 

DVontel

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Which is why I have been soft on Kliff
I have, too.

However, that just told me my expectations were very low & I was hoping for better. My expectations are not low anymore. There is no more hoping because there is no hope with Kliff. Not under this “Mahomes/Kyler/Webb/Baker/McCoy do some ad-libbing & run around” offense.
 

ASUCHRIS

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Are people going to continue using this super small sample size as opposed to the *much* larger sample size about Kliff’s history with other QBs? Are you legitimately being serious?

Rewatch those games. It was the same scheme. No motion, no WR movement, just a lot of ad-libbing, in which Colt did a lot, especially in that Niners’ game. The Panthers’ loss happened, too. Lets not continue to ignore that.
SSS and grasping at straws? Classic symptoms of #BirdCityFever
 

football karma

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Are people going to continue using this super small sample size as opposed to the *much* larger sample size about Kliff’s history with other QBs? Are you legitimately being serious?

Rewatch those games. It was the same scheme. No motion, no WR movement, just a lot of ad-libbing, in which Colt did a lot, especially in that Niners’ game. The Panthers’ loss happened, too. Lets not continue to ignore that.
same scheme, yet good production (QB ratings in the 110+ range). No DHop as well. Maybe the scheme worked because McCoy is better at reading defenses and going to the right place?

I am open to the possibility that Kliff's offense produces open targets that Kyler isnt seeing/ recognizing / choosing. Heck -- we spent three pages analyzing one all-22 shot from last weeks game where it looked like nearly everyone was open but it resulted in Kyler running it in.

and i dont get the point about Kliff's history with other QBs-- college to pros?
 
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