Three Things Can Be Right at the Same Time

DVontel

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same scheme, yet good production (QB ratings in the 110+ range). No DHop as well. Maybe the scheme worked because McCoy is better at reading defenses and going to the right place
If Kyler didn’t have a single good game in his career, I would agree with this possibility. If he didn’t have better games pre-Hopkins than Colt did, I would agree with you. If a sample size of 2(3) games have you convinced, by all means, good luck.

same scheme, yet good production (QB ratings in the 110+ range). No DHop as well. Maybe the scheme worked because McCoy is better at reading defenses and going to the right place?

I am open to the possibility that Kliff's offense produces open targets that Kyler isnt seeing/ recognizing / choosing. Heck -- we spent three pages analyzing one all-22 shot from last weeks game where it looked like nearly everyone was open but it resulted in Kyler running it in.

and i dont get the point about Kliff's history with other QBs-- college to pros?
I would agree with this, if any of this didn’t happen:

Ding.
Ding.
Ding.

Manziel managed to have a better statistical season when Kliff left after Manziel’s 1st season.

Mahomes was this extremely polarizing prospect because he got faulted for doing so much ad-libbing. Turns out he had to cause his head coach at the time had a trash & boring scheme. He goes to a coach that actually innovates his scheme, he becomes the best QB in the league.


I’m not a Kyler fanboy & I’m not trying to come off as one, but there’s 10 years of evidence of QBs that played better without Kliff than with him. Hell, even Baker Mayfield & Davis Webb managed to look a lot better without him than with him.

Unless people are generally just focused on the Kyler fanboys, I don’t understand why people *may* think Kyler is holding Kliff back & not the other way around.
It would be one thing if these QBs sputtered without Kliff. However, history shows these QBs played better without him than with him.

There is a lot of intellectual people on here. We should not be getting fooled this easily.
 

football karma

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If Kyler didn’t have a single good game in his career, I would agree with this possibility. If he didn’t have better games pre-Hopkins than Colt did, I would agree with you. If a sample size of 2(3) games have you convinced, by all means, good luck.


I would agree with this, if any of this didn’t happen:


It would be one thing if these QBs sputtered without Kliff. However, history shows these QBs played better without him than with him.

There is a lot of intellectual people on here. We should not be getting fooled this easily.
DV: did you really just refer to your own post as evidence your post was right?

in all the examples: the QBs you refer to either had another year of experience (Manziel), or, played on better teams (Mayfield). If the take away from Mahommes move from college to pros is that Andy Reid is a better coach than Kliff -- we can stipulate that.
 

DVontel

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DV: did you really just refer to your own post as evidence your post was right?
Yes, I did just really refer to my post in another thread because I did not want to reiterate word-by-word.
the QBs you refer to either had another year of experience (Manziel)
This would make sense if a guy like Jalen Hurts didn’t regress at Alabama despite having “experience”. Or a guy like Spencer Rattler doing the same thing. Experience ≠ improving.

or, played on better teams (Mayfield).
Playing on better teams ≠ being a better player. Mitch Mustain became a worse player despite going from Arkansas to a better program in USC.


What about Davis Webb? How come he managed to play a lot better for Cal-Berkeley despite being on a worse team? Experience? Part of it. Other part is he played in a much better scheme & got away from the one Kliff runs.


I don’t get it.

This is not Andy Reid.
This is not Sean McVay.
This is not Doug Pederson.
This is not Kyle Shanahan.


You do not need to go to war for Kliff Kingsbury. You do not need to have any second thoughts as to thinking he “might not” be a huge problem, even though evidence has shown he has exactly been that.
 

cardpa

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I'll go out on a limb and say that Kyler hasn't been a problem at all really. He's cleaned up some frustrating parts of his game, like not taking what the defense gives him and forcing passes downfield that get intercepted. I honestly think, too, that he has been more likable and has stepped up to the plate quite a bit since signing the extension. Just how I'm seeing it.
I have to hand it to you, still totally positive at this point. Me thinks you might own stock in Kool Aid.
 

football karma

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You do not need to go to war for Kliff Kingsbury.
big diff between "i dont know who is more to blame between kliff and kyler" and going to war for Kliff.

The reality is: none of us know.
 

DVontel

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big diff between "i dont know who is more to blame between kliff and kyler" and going to war for Kliff.

The reality is: none of us know.
Oh, I know the reality. I just gave you evidence of what the reality is. You just choose not to believe it.
 

Snakester

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So far I see the same thing as last year. This team lives and dies with Kyler. If Murray plays well we win. If he don’t we lose. I am really hoping that he grows up this year and becomes consistent. If not it’s going to be a very long season.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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Because it's basically the same track record — at least in the NFL? In college the results are equally muddied.

Kliff orchestrated extremely productive offenses and college but never found a way to consistently win, especially as the season went along.

Kyler had one good college season and immediately failed completely in the one game that really mattered. Meanwhile the QBs that preceded and succeeded him were as productive.

We're stuck with both for the next two years (probably). If Kliff can't pull this together, I'll be much more comfortable betting that an incandescent talent like Kyler's can be made more consistent even for a shorter term than Kliff can be an above-average head coach for the long term.

IMO, a great head coach is more valuable than a very good quarterback, but you'd always have a very good quarterback than an average or below average head coach.
Your recollection of Kyler’s college career is total nonsense. The Heisman trophy winner’s college career is equally muddled as a guy who got unceremoniously fired from his own alma mater after repeatedly going under .500 in conference. Okay.
 

kerouac9

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Your recollection of Kyler’s college career is total nonsense. The Heisman trophy winner’s college career is equally muddled as a guy who got unceremoniously fired from his own alma mater after repeatedly going under .500 in conference. Okay.

I don't really know what relevance to pro success the Heisman Trophy has. I'm sure it's less relevant than slicing through a bad conference like butter and then collapsing in the face of the first quality opponent you have.

Tech has been as bad after Kingsbury left as it was when he was there -- they're maybe worse now! They're on their 3rd head coach since they kanned Kliff.

There's just a lot of noise on both signals. Kyler had one year with a loaded team and was no more or less successful than the guys who came before and after him. How does that speak to personal excellent. Kliff was about as successful as the guys who came before and after him in the same job.

Hard to take anything from that, but I'm pretty sure that Kyler is better at his current job in comparison to his peers than Kliff is at his. I'm with Dvontel that we should feel like we deserve better than Kliff Kingsbury.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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I don't really know what relevance to pro success the Heisman Trophy has. I'm sure it's less relevant than slicing through a bad conference like butter and then collapsing in the face of the first quality opponent you have.

Tech has been as bad after Kingsbury left as it was when he was there -- they're maybe worse now! They're on their 3rd head coach since they kanned Kliff.

There's just a lot of noise on both signals. Kyler had one year with a loaded team and was no more or less successful than the guys who came before and after him. How does that speak to personal excellent. Kliff was about as successful as the guys who came before and after him in the same job.

Hard to take anything from that, but I'm pretty sure that Kyler is better at his current job in comparison to his peers than Kliff is at his. I'm with Dvontel that we should feel like we deserve better than Kliff Kingsbury.
You said their college careers were equally muddled. Kyler won the Heisman trophy. Spencer Rattler (same system, Coach, program) sucked ass right after him. Check that it was Jalen Hurts then Rattler. I also fail to see how getting clocked by Saban Alabama should be held against anyone by the way.

Kliff sucked at TTU. Mike Leach his predecessor killed it there. Also same trash conference you mentioned above Kliff couldn’t find a way to win in.

You’re totally wrong here.
 

kerouac9

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You said their college careers were equally muddled. Kyler won the Heisman trophy. Spencer Rattler (same system, Coach, program) sucked ass right after him. Check that it was Jalen Hurts then Rattler. I also fail to see how getting clocked by Saban Alabama should be held against anyone by the way.

Kliff sucked at TTU. Mike Leach his predecessor killed it there. Also same trash conference you mentioned above Kliff couldn’t find a way to win in.

You’re totally wrong here.
Tommy Tuberville was Kliff's immediate predecessor at Tech. He also sucked and then suddenly was good again at Cincy. Maybe something changed in the Big 12 between when Leach left and Kliff started?
 

Arz101

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Kliff is 23-25-1 so far im NFL. I think he may have peaked given his offense this year, we will see if he can redeem himself in next 14 games.
 
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