Suns updates and discussion for the 2020-21 season

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think it’s still amare as he was a force of nature. The fact that he was shooting 8-9 FTs his second season helps evidence how aggressive he was. It also helps out the other team in foul trouble and could demoralize opponents. He could also get his own shot, even if it was often a little wild (like oubre). Ayton still hasn’t shown that ability with any frequency.

interestingly enough, at that juncture he likely wasn’t as developed as Ayton, and I think that’s reflected in his stats. But everyone knew he was a star and likely superstar in the making. Not sure everyone believes that about Ayton.

 

[GatorAZ]

Pre micro Amare outplayed prime Duncan and Dirk in the playoffs lol.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If you took Amare and plugged into a team today, I do not think he would have been nearly as effective. The NBA has evolved into much more of a perimeter game and defense is more critical now.

Also, Amare had Nash.

 

[Mainstreet]

If you took Amare and plugged into a team today, I do not think he would have been nearly as effective. The NBA has evolved into much more of a perimeter game and defense is more critical now.

Also, Amare had Nash.

And Ayton has Chris Paul.

I think Amare would outstanding in today's NBA. He would be almost impossible to guard. A team could surround him with some defensive players. A healthy Amare might even decide he wants to play defense. SSOL didn't lend itself to that end of the court.

 

[95pro]

And Ayton has Chris Paul.

I think Amare would outstanding in today's NBA. He would be almost impossible to guard. A team could surround him with some defensive players. A healthy Amare might even decide he wants to play defense. SSOL didn't lend itself to that end of the court.

agreed.
People keep saying it’s not an inside game anymore but there is. It’s not a feed the post player, slow it down, run the offense through the post player league anymore but there’s still some guys who do damage inside still.
Davis and Bam. Chapela did damage with a Harden feeding him.
Amare actually had a jumper that was money too.

 

[JCSunsfan]

agreed.
People keep saying it’s not an inside game anymore but there is. It’s not a feed the post player, slow it down, run the offense through the post player league anymore but there’s still some guys who do damage inside still.
Davis and Bam. Chapela did damage with a Harden feeding him.
Amare actually had a jumper that was money too.

Amare did not have that jumper in year two.

I do believe that Ayton is incredibly undervalued and Amare overvalued. Defensively it’s not even close. It’s going to be interesting to see how things for for Ayton with CP 3 playing.

 

[95pro]

If you took Amare and plugged into a team today, I do not think he would have been nearly as effective. The NBA has evolved into much more of a perimeter game and defense is more critical now.

Also, Amare had Nash.

So maybe if you’re only talking rookie or second year Amare. Other than that Amare was a beast and would be now too.

 

[JCSunsfan]

So maybe if you’re only talking rookie or second year Amare. Other than that Amare was a beast and would be now too.

Well. Yes. That was my original question since Ayton has only finished year two.

 

[Mainstreet]

I can't help but wonder if the Suns had waited on the Chris Paul trade, would they have been able to trade for James Harden.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I can't help but wonder if the Suns had waited on the Chris Paul trade, would they have been able to trade for James Harden.

i don’t think they could have competed with a possible Philly or Nets deal.

 

[Mainstreet]

i don’t think they could have competed with a possible Philly or Nets deal.

Probably not as the Rockets want a lot but they may have to settle.

The intriguing part is Harden played college basketball at Arizona State not that I have interest after trading Rubio and Oubre. They would have had to be a part of the trade.

Houston hasn't wavered in what the Rockets consider a fair asking price for Harden: a package that includes a young franchise cornerstone and a bundle of first-round picks and/or talented players on rookie contracts, sources said.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...ng-traded-philadelphia-76ers-other-contenders

 

[JCSunsfan]

I can't help but wonder if the Suns had waited on the Chris Paul trade, would they have been able to trade for James Harden.

I don't think Harden fits as well as CP3 with Booker. I think Paul sets a better team tone too. Just me.

 

[Yuma]

I can't help but wonder if the Suns had waited on the Chris Paul trade, would they have been able to trade for James Harden.

Supposedly, I do say supposedly, Chris Paul wanted or was willing to come here. I don't see Harden coming here when rumors like him wanting to go to NJ or possibly LA. He's looking to hook up with a Super Team. Maybe if we won the NBA Championship and had salary space available?

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think Harden fits as well as CP3 with Booker. I think Paul sets a better team tone too. Just me.

It's more for discussion than anything else. The Suns have played their cards.

 

[Mainstreet]

Supposedly, I do say supposedly, Chris Paul wanted or was willing to come here. I don't see Harden coming here when rumors like him wanting to go to NJ or possibly LA. He's looking to hook up with a Super Team. Maybe if we won the NBA Championship and had salary space available?

If Harden didn't have ties to the Valley having attended Arizona State I wouldn't have mentioned it. Also the Suns lost some of their trade pieces with Oubre and Rubio. Additionally trading that first round pick ties their hands as well. Of course the Rockets would want much more.

 

[GatorAZ]

I can't help but wonder if the Suns had waited on the Chris Paul trade, would they have been able to trade for James Harden.

We had the chance to trade for Harden and lowballed OKC.

 

[Yuma]

We had the chance to trade for Harden and lowballed OKC.

I was all for that at the time to get ASU fans to the games!!

 

[Mainstreet]

We had the chance to trade for Harden and lowballed OKC.

I doubt OKC had any better offers for Chris Paul so I think the Suns offer was fair. However, James Harden has much more market value.

If the Suns had gone after Harden the trade would likely have required a third team with the Suns giving up Oubre, Rubio, multiple first round picks and a good young player.

It would have been fun to see how close the Suns could have come to pulling off the trade. Of course Harden would have to be willing to come here.

 

[Chaplin]

I doubt OKC had any better offers for Chris Paul so I think the Suns offer was fair. However, James Harden has much more market value.

If the Suns had gone after Harden the trade would likely have required a third team with the Suns giving up Oubre, Rubio, multiple first round picks and a good young player.

It would have been fun to see how close the Suns could have gotten to pulling off the trade. Of course Harden would have wanted to come here.

He was talking about when OKC traded Harden to the Rockets.

 

[Mainstreet]

He was talking about when OKC traded Harden to the Rockets.

Harden was infinitely more affordable in 2012.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Figured I would just drop this here. Pretty cool DBook highlight video.

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[Mainstreet]

Monty like the natural work mentality of Ty-Shon Alexander.

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[JCSunsfan]

Just to revive the Ayton/Amare conversation a little more. Amare was known for attacking the rim. Ayton is criticized for being too timid. But . . .

Amare Year 1: 140 dunks, 82 games (1.71 dunks per game), Ayton Year 1: 135 dunks, 71 games (1.9 dunks per game)
Amare Year 2: 112 dunks, 55 games (2.04 dunks per game), Ayton Year 2: 83 dunks, 38 games (2.18 dunks per game)
Amare Year 3: 237 dunks, 80 games (2.96 dunks per game), Ayton Year 3: ????

BTW. I blatantly ripped this off from a poster on Realgm. I think people just have unrealistic expectations of Ayton. They expect him to be a combination of players that no one is. He plays offense, he plays excellent man D and switches even on to guards. Amare never played much D. He scores very efficiently. He rebounds way better than Amare did. He has a midrange that Amare did not develop until later, and he is now shooting the three, which Amare never really did.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Just to revive the Ayton/Amare conversation a little more. Amare was known for attacking the rim. Ayton is criticized for being too timid. But . . .

Amare Year 1: 140 dunks, 82 games (1.71 dunks per game), Ayton Year 1: 135 dunks, 71 games (1.9 dunks per game)
Amare Year 2: 112 dunks, 55 games (2.04 dunks per game), Ayton Year 2: 83 dunks, 38 games (2.18 dunks per game)
Amare Year 3: 237 dunks, 80 games (2.96 dunks per game), Ayton Year 3: ????

BTW. I blatantly ripped this off from a poster on Realgm. I think people just have unrealistic expectations of Ayton. They expect him to be a combination of players that no one is. He plays offense, he plays excellent man D and switches even on to guards. Amare never played much D. He scores very efficiently. He rebounds way better than Amare did. He has a midrange that Amare did not develop until later, and he is now shooting the three, which Amare never really did.

That spike in year 3 for Amare coincided with bringing in an all NBA PG. Wonder if Paul will have the same effect for Ayton.

 

[Mainstreet]

@JCSunsfan

Although it's not related to dunks, I will always remember Amare's block at the rim against Brad Miller.

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