Suns updates and discussion for the 2020-21 season

[GatorAZ]

@JCSunsfan

Although it's not related to dunks, I will always remember Amare's block at the rim against Brad Miller.

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[Mainstreet]

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I probably remember Amare's block on Brad Miller more because it was a game saving play.

The block on Duncan is probably more impressive. No one blocks Duncan.

 

[GatorAZ]

I probably remember Amare's block on Brad Miller more because it was a game saving play.

The block on Duncan is probably more impressive. No one blocks Duncan.

His recover speed on that block was sick. It makes it all he more maddening he never really took defense/rebounding seriously.

 

[Mainstreet]

His recover speed on that block was sick. It makes it all he more maddening he never really took defense/rebounding seriously.

This is why I take any player comparisons to Amare very seriously. He had off the wall talent.

What a shame his career was shortened. He could have done anything if he wanted.

I remember thinking when I first saw Amare play, the Suns finally have an athletic big man like Shawn Kemp.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Just to revive the Ayton/Amare conversation a little more. Amare was known for attacking the rim. Ayton is criticized for being too timid. But . . .

Amare Year 1: 140 dunks, 82 games (1.71 dunks per game), Ayton Year 1: 135 dunks, 71 games (1.9 dunks per game)
Amare Year 2: 112 dunks, 55 games (2.04 dunks per game), Ayton Year 2: 83 dunks, 38 games (2.18 dunks per game)
Amare Year 3: 237 dunks, 80 games (2.96 dunks per game), Ayton Year 3: ????

BTW. I blatantly ripped this off from a poster on Realgm. I think people just have unrealistic expectations of Ayton. They expect him to be a combination of players that no one is. He plays offense, he plays excellent man D and switches even on to guards. Amare never played much D. He scores very efficiently. He rebounds way better than Amare did. He has a midrange that Amare did not develop until later, and he is now shooting the three, which Amare never really did.

Stats have a place in a conversation, but they’re often cherry picked as these are here. A better indicator of going to the rack:

amare FTAs:
Year 1: 5.9
Year 2: 7.9

ayton FTAs:
Year 1: 2.7
Year 2: 2.3

and we all know what we actually saw when watching the guys. Amare seemed to want to do things in the court and was driven, if not yet skilled, and Ayton seems to fall into his impressive stats.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I probably remember Amare's block on Brad Miller more because it was a game saving play.

The block on Duncan is probably more impressive. No one blocks Duncan.

A Duncan dunk no less. Amare just had no fear. That’s a big difference with Ayton who seems worried about being blocked or challenging certain players.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

That spike in year 3 for Amare coincided with bringing in an all NBA PG. Wonder if Paul will have the same effect for Ayton.

And a bunch of shooters, too.

His recover speed on that block was sick. It makes it all he more maddening he never really took defense/rebounding seriously.

I wonder how much of Amare’s defensive development and effort was stunted by the microfracture.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And a bunch of shooters, too.



I wonder how much of Amare’s defensive development and effort was stunted by the microfracture.

I think it was mostly playing for a coach who didn’t care about defense.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That spike in year 3 for Amare coincided with bringing in an all NBA PG.

actually, it didn’t. In the year previous to Nash getting here, Amare missed a bunch of games in December and January with injury.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3607/splits/?selectedTable=0&season={%22season%22:2003,%22seasonPhase%22:%22REGULAR_SEASON%22,%22groupedBySeason%22:true}

When he returned, he exploded for the last 32 games of the season, where he averaged 24.5 ppg, 10 rebounds and 1.6 blocks. All done without pretty much any PG after Marbury was traded away.

he wasn’t just improving... he was already starting to dominate offensively before Nash got there.

that’s not to say he didn’t get better with Nash. Nash made the game much easier for everyone. But there wasn’t this massive spike people make it out to be.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I probably remember Amare's block on Brad Miller more because it was a game saving play.

The block on Duncan is probably more impressive. No one blocks Duncan.

You remember the Brad Miller block more than the Duncan one because it was a game saving play? That’s odd to me because blocking Duncan wasn’t just a game saving play, it was a season saving play, saving a game in the playoffs when we were down 0-3 facing elimination if Duncan scored there.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

actually, it didn’t. In the year previous to Nash getting here, Amare missed a bunch of games in December and January with injury.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3607/splits/?selectedTable=0&season={%22season%22:2003,%22seasonPhase%22:%22REGULAR_SEASON%22,%22groupedBySeason%22:true}

When he returned, he exploded for the last 32 games of the season, where he averaged 24.5 ppg, 10 rebounds and 1.6 blocks.

he wasn’t just improving... he was already starting to dominate offensively before Nash got there.

that’s not to say he didn’t get better with Nash. But there wasn’t this massive spike people make it out to be.

I was talking specifically about the dunks per game stat. He went from like 2 per game to 3 per game with the addition of Nash. Not saying he didn't become a great player before Nash.

 

[Mainstreet]

You remember the Brad Miller block more than the Duncan one because it was a game saving play? That’s odd to me because blocking Duncan wasn’t just a game saving play, it was a season saving play, saving a game in the playoffs when we were down 0-3 facing elimination if Duncan scored there.

The Brad Miller block always left the biggest impression on me for some reason. It could be because it came first.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Brad Miller always left the biggest impression on me for some reason. It could be because it came first.

gotcha.

 

[GatorAZ]

I think it was mostly playing for a coach who didn’t care about defense.

Plus he already got paid, blew off rehab sessions and only took the fun part of working on his game seriously.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Man... that team was set up to be a super team. Nash/Amare/Joe Johnson/Marion... that would haven’t been a big 3. It would have been a big FOUR.

add in Raja and KT for toughness that next season.

freaking $arver and injuries.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Amare was only 22 years old when his knees started failing.

26/9/1.6 on 55% shooting... at only 22 YEARS OLD.

Ugh... he was going to be so disgustingly good. Like... the most unstoppable player in the game on offense good.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Amare was only 22 years old when his knees started failing.

26/9/1.6 on 55% shooting... at only 22 YEARS OLD.

Ugh... he was going to be so disgustingly good. Like... the most unstoppable player in the game on offense good.

Imagine that athleticism mixed with the mid range game that he developed. Still remained a damn good player even with the injury, but certainly wasn't nearly as explosive afterwards.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Imagine that athleticism mixed with the mid range game that he developed. Still remained a damn good player even with the injury, but certainly wasn't nearly as explosive afterwards.

yup. And while he was still quick, he lost that super human lightening first step he had.

such a shame.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think it was mostly playing for a coach who didn’t care about defense.

I really thought he made a conscious decision his rookie season to avoid defense because it kept putting his butt on the bench. He wanted to be a big star, loved getting his dunks and highlight plays on ESPN and learned early on that he couldn't shine if he was sitting out for foul problems. When Dantoni took over, that just made it even easier for him.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Man... that team was set up to be a super team. Nash/Amare/Joe Johnson/Marion... that would haven’t been a big 3. It would have been a big FOUR.

add in Raja and KT for toughness that next season.

freaking $arver and injuries.

I often wonder where we would have been if we'd stayed with Frank Johnson and still made the player choices we did. I hadn't made up my mind on Frank but I liked the balance on his coaching staff of Dantoni, Ggurich, Weber and Iavaroni. With Frank and that staff still in place our defense would have been a greater priority, maybe even enough of a priority to hang onto one of our best defenders (JJ).

 

[95pro]

Did anyone listen to NBA radio sunday? Ayton was on...the guy is mentally still a child, not well spoken. Did anyone hear the psychotic comment?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Did anyone listen to NBA radio sunday? Ayton was on...the guy is mentally still a child, not well spoken. Did anyone hear the psychotic comment?

Why don't you enlighten us on what he said?

 

[95pro]

Why don't you enlighten us on what he said?

I dont remember specifics but he did mention being a psychopath when it comes to the "game". The usual all-talk from Ayton.

 

[Mainstreet]

I dont remember specifics but he did mention being a psychopath when it comes to the "game". The usual all-talk from Ayton.

Still need more clues. Is there a link to it?

 

[95pro]

Still need more clues. Is there a link to it?

I tried to find one. nothing

There wasnt too much to it, i was just alluding to Ayton being all-talk before actually producing, just curious if anyone heard the show with EJ and Termine.


CP3 was also on at one time. IDR if it was that show or Suns preview. CP3 says, yes, he can be there to help mentor/coach the younger guys BUT in a somewhat defensive tone said he's also there to hoop, and can still hoop. Sounds like he wants to prove he's still capable and can get to the championship.

James jones was also on, said he has to remind the team not to get ahead of themselves and we need to make it to the playoffs first. Once the western conference finals are reached, anything can happen.