Suns meet Michael Beasley and Robin Lopez in LA

[Mainstreet]

so, they're going to get rid of their best young talent just to move that contract and get Nash back? Lon Babby/Sarver aren't running that team.

I'd be happy if a first round draft pick were included with Calderon. It saves Toronto 10M+.

However, if Bayless could be a part of the trade, just that much better.

 

[SweetD]

i don't think there's any universe that exists that Toronto trades Davis/DeRozen or Bargnani for a 38 year old PG on his last legs, especially considering they will have cap space to sign Nash outright when they amnesty Calderon. why would they do any of the above?

Toronto is still a small market team $10Million is $10Million. They have an excess of young talent. Nash is worth more to them than some of those players. Davis maybe pushed out of the line up and Ross may show DeRozen is worth moving. They are still looking for a starting SF and would need to have the cash, cap space and playing time for a starting SF. I am not saying it will happen, but there is a solid chance.

 

[elindholm]

Thats like saying you'd rather be have diarrhea than be extremely constipated. I will vote for neither.

Doesn't it depend on how much each one costs?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Toronto is still a small market team $10Million is $10Million. They have an excess of young talent. Nash is worth more to them than some of those players. Davis maybe pushed out of the line up and Ross may show DeRozen is worth moving. They are still looking for a starting SF and would need to have the cash, cap space and playing time for a starting SF. I am not saying it will happen, but there is a solid chance.

i think there isn't a chance in hell.

 

[SirStefan32]

I dont think I could stomach seeing Beasley in a Suns uniform. I might have to frame him for a crime if we sign him.

I am with you. I would not take him for free. If we end up with him and Crawford, I am done watching the team until both of them are gone.

 

[MakeItNashty]

I hope these LA meetings went awful.

Two guys I don't want.

 

[binkar]

Thats like saying you'd rather be have diarrhea than be extremely constipated. I will vote for neither.

Frye is an immeasurably better defender than Beasley. Beasley just plain does not play defense. He might as well not be there, similar to Warrick. Just because he would represent an upgrade over Warrick does not mean we should sign him. Half the D-League would be an upgrade over Warrick.

My ripping on Beasley is no exaggerated. And you're right, he takes a ton of outside shots, which is part of the reason he is so horribly inefficient on offense, he does not get to the line. He wont go inside, he wont go to the rim, he gobbles up the shot clock and takes jumpers and does everything else at an obscenely bad level.

Can you validate any of this with actual statistics or data? This seems incredibly over dramatic to me. He's shot almost 46% over his career. He got to line three times more often than Frye in four fewer games last season. As Mark Cuban said to Skip Bayless, your throwing around a bunch of dramatic generalities with out any actual data backing your claims.

I, for one, will take a chance on a player like Beasley. He is still young (23), talented, and a better player than you're giving credit. Of course this depends on what kind of deal we sign him to in terms of both money and years. It's actually refreshing to me to see the organization take a chance like this.

We have possibly the most talent deprived, unathletic roster in the NBA. I'd welcome a jolt of athleticism and upside from players like Beasley and Mayo.

 

[Phrazbit]

Can you validate any of this with actual statistics or data? This seems incredibly over dramatic to me. He's shot almost 46% over his career. He got to line three times more often than Frye in four fewer games last season. As Mark Cuban said to Skip Bayless, your throwing around a bunch of dramatic generalities with out any actual data backing your claims.

I, for one, will take a chance on a player like Beasley. He is still young (23), talented, and a better player than you're giving credit. Of course this depends on what kind of deal we sign him to in terms of both money and years. It's actually refreshing to me to see the organization take a chance like this.

Frye is wretched at getting to the line. There might not be a player in the league who gets to the line at a worse shot per FT rate than Frye. And Beasley didnt triple Frye's rate, he didnt even double it. Beasley shot 2.0 FT per game, Frye shot 1.3.

Beasley posted a 13.11 efficiency rating, thats even WORSE than Frye. His 1-1.7 assist to turnover ratio is awful, especially for a player who dominates the ball as much as Beasley does.

Beasley is young but he is NOT talented. Besides mid-range jump shooting there is literally NOTHING he does at an even average level. There is a reason Miami gave him up for beans, there is a reason Minny has been loading up on players at the same position, there is a reason they shopped him all last season, there is a reason no one took him. Its all because Michael Beasley suuuuuucks.

And i havnt even touched on his off the court problems. I wouldnt touch this pile of garbage with a 10 foot pole.

 

[SunsTzu]

Can you validate any of this with actual statistics or data? This seems incredibly over dramatic to me. He's shot almost 46% over his career. He got to line three times more often than Frye in four fewer games last season. As Mark Cuban said to Skip Bayless, your throwing around a bunch of dramatic generalities with out any actual data backing your claims.

I honestly don't know how you can argue Beasley to be anything other than inefficient thus far in his career. He has been a high usage/volume player on poor efficiency his entire career. For his career he is 51 TS% with 27 USG% and needs 13.4 FGA to average 15.1ppg.

I'm not against signing him for a short low risk contract(similar to Shannon Brown's contract), but if Beasley isn't inefficient then very few significant NBA players are.

 

[binkar]

Frye is wretched at getting to the line. There might not be a player in the league who gets to the line at a worse shot per FT rate than Frye. And Beasley didnt triple Frye's rate, he didnt even double it. Beasley shot 2.0 FT per game, Frye shot 1.3.

Beasley posted a 13.11 efficiency rating, thats even WORSE than Frye. His 1-1.7 assist to turnover ratio is awful, especially for a player who dominates the ball as much as Beasley does.

Beasley is young but he is NOT talented. Besides mid-range jump shooting there is literally NOTHING he does at an even average level. There is a reason Miami gave him up for beans, there is a reason Minny has been loading up on players at the same position, there is a reason they shopped him all last season, there is a reason no one took him. Its all because Michael Beasley suuuuuucks.

And i havnt even touched on his off the court problems. I wouldnt touch this pile of garbage with a 10 foot pole.

I was referring to last season 10'-11' where Beasley averaged 4.0 and Frye 1.4. I am not saying Beasley has been incredibly efficient or even remotely efficient. But to say "...he does not get to the line. He wont go inside, he wont go to the rim, he gobbles up the shot clock and takes jumpers and does everything else at an obscenely bad level." simply isn't accurate.

Look at his shot selection chart:
http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Michael Beasley

That doesn't suggest someone who lives out on the perimeter the entire time. For being 6'10 with his athletic ability he should ABSOLUTELY be getting to the line and rebounding at a higher rate. Has he lived up to his ability? Not even close. Has he been efficient? Not even close. But he IS talented, he is 23, and he could potentially improve his game and become more efficient. If we can sign him at a reasonable price, I am all for it.

Agree to disagree.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I was referring to last season 10'-11' where Beasley averaged 4.0 and Frye 1.4. I am not saying Beasley has been incredibly efficient or even remotely efficient. But to say "...he does not get to the line. He wont go inside, he wont go to the rim, he gobbles up the shot clock and takes jumpers and does everything else at an obscenely bad level." simply isn't accurate.

Look at his shot selection chart:
http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Michael Beasley

That doesn't suggest someone who lives out on the perimeter the entire time. For being 6'10 with his athletic ability he should ABSOLUTELY be getting to the line and rebounding at a higher rate. Has he lived up to his ability? Not even close. Has he been efficient? Not even close. But he IS talented, he is 23, and he could potentially improve his game and become more efficient. If we can sign him at a reasonable price, I am all for it.

Agree to disagree.

Perfectly stated.

 

[Phrazbit]

I was referring to last season 10'-11' where Beasley averaged 4.0 and Frye 1.4. I am not saying Beasley has been incredibly efficient or even remotely efficient. But to say "...he does not get to the line. He wont go inside, he wont go to the rim, he gobbles up the shot clock and takes jumpers and does everything else at an obscenely bad level." simply isn't accurate.

Look at his shot selection chart:
http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Michael%20Beasley

That doesn't suggest someone who lives out on the perimeter the entire time. For being 6'10 with his athletic ability he should ABSOLUTELY be getting to the line and rebounding at a higher rate. Has he lived up to his ability? Not even close. Has he been efficient? Not even close. But he IS talented, he is 23, and he could potentially improve his game and become more efficient. If we can sign him at a reasonable price, I am all for it.

Agree to disagree.

I feel like your stats backed up what I was saying pretty well. An overwhelming majority of his shots come from 10 feet or further and the largest portion of his attempts by far come from between 16-23 feet. He does not go inside, he does not go to the rim. And the season where he shot 4 FT per game he was taking over 17 shots on average!

Beasley is what he is. He wont play on the interior, he is as averse to going in there as he could possibly be. And because he is content to sit out there and jack up jumpers he will never become efficient and he will also never become a solid rebounder. The guy has zero basketball IQ. He does not play within an offensive system, he relies on inefficient ISO to get his pathetic averages, and he has a negative impact on ball movement, defense and rebounding. There is not a reason to want this player. If not for the hype attached to his name from 4 years ago he would be a nobody. He has not lived up to his hyped ability because he does not have ability. He is not terribly quick or strong. He is tall... and has a decent jumper, thats it. He has nothing else going for him.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm glad the Suns have not written off Beasley who only turned 23 in January. Players can mature. IMO, he is well worth the risk on the right contract. Below is a link to his stats.

Many did not like Shannon Brown's game before he came to Phoenix yet he played well for the Suns.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/michael_beasley/career_stats.html

 

[SunsTzu]

Many did not like Shannon Brown's game before he came to Phoenix yet he played well for the Suns.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/michael_beasley/career_stats.html

As long as Beasley's deal is along the same lines as Brown's I won't complain. If they throw big money over 4 years at him I might have a hard time finding any hope with the team and it's leadership.

 

[MakeItNashty]

Thing about Beasley is, we would have to overpay to get him.

A lot of teams are interested in him, especially Mavs which means we have to get into a bidding fest with Cuban.

 

[binkar]

I feel like your stats backed up what I was saying pretty well. An overwhelming majority of his shots come from 10 feet or further and the largest portion of his attempts by far come from between 16-23 feet. He does not go inside, he does not go to the rim. And the season where he shot 4 FT per game he was taking over 17 shots on average!

Beasley is what he is. He wont play on the interior, he is as averse to going in there as he could possibly be. And because he is content to sit out there and jack up jumpers he will never become efficient and he will also never become a solid rebounder. The guy has zero basketball IQ. He does not play within an offensive system, he relies on inefficient ISO to get his pathetic averages, and he has a negative impact on ball movement, defense and rebounding. There is not a reason to want this player. If not for the hype attached to his name from 4 years ago he would be a nobody. He has not lived up to his hyped ability because he does not have ability. He is not terribly quick or strong. He is tall... and has a decent jumper, thats it. He has nothing else going for him.

Again, agree to disagree. I just don't think it's entirely unreasonable to hope for improvement when a kid is just 23. I think he has an impressive skill set if he can make some adjustments, you don't. It's ok that we disagree. If he goes to the Suns I hope I'm right, if he goes to the Lakers or Mavs I hope you're right.

 

[dodie53]

give the man a chance.
hehe

 

[Phrazbit]

Again, agree to disagree. I just don't think it's entirely unreasonable to hope for improvement when a kid is just 23. I think he has an impressive skill set if he can make some adjustments, you don't. It's ok that we disagree. If he goes to the Suns I hope I'm right, if he goes to the Lakers or Mavs I hope you're right.

My thing is that he is just not that type of player. Its not a question of "could he rebound better, could he get better on the inside" those are just things he does not do to begin with. He is a gunning shooting guard in a power forwards body. Its not that he would need to improve, he would need to completely alter his play style. I dont see any chance that happens.

 

[SweetD]

My thing is that he is just not that type of player. Its not a question of "could he rebound better, could he get better on the inside" those are just things he does not do to begin with. He is a gunning shooting guard in a power forwards body. Its not that he would need to improve, he would need to completely alter his play style. I dont see any chance that happens.

I agree with you even when he played in Miami without a good rebounder like Love he still only pulled down 5-7 boards a game. But on the other hand Hill would only get 3-5 per game.

 

[Folster]

If you play him at the 3, then his rebounding numbers are adequate.

 

[carey]

Thing about Beasley is, we would have to overpay to get him.

A lot of teams are interested in him, especially Mavs which means we have to get into a bidding fest with Cuban.

Links? Haven't seen a report of anyone.

 

[mojorizen7]

Oh dear god let Lopez go.

right?

I'd love to see Goran back. I'm probably in the minority there. We'd have to find some scoring and shooting at the 2spot though. Ray Allen! Lol

 

[mojorizen7]

BTW,if Beasley can come in and help us suck....i'm all for it.

 

[Phrazbit]

BTW,if Beasley can come in and help us suck....i'm all for it.

I certainly think he could accomplish that. But even for tanking I wouldnt want him for the price tag I'd guess he is going to carry.

 

[Covert Rain]

Again, agree to disagree. I just don't think it's entirely unreasonable to hope for improvement when a kid is just 23. I think he has an impressive skill set if he can make some adjustments, you don't. It's ok that we disagree. If he goes to the Suns I hope I'm right, if he goes to the Lakers or Mavs I hope you're right.

I think guys can get mechanics fixed to improve things like their shot or FT percentage. What I don't think you can do is fix bad defense or piss poor rebounding.

I can't think of one example where bad defense and bad rebounding has been fixed.