The Suns FO is not that bad....

[sunsfan88]

I'm honestly sick and tired of people ripping apart the Suns FO crew of Babby and Blanks. I'll admit that I have also occasionally took my gabs at them but after thinking about the moves the new regime has made, I realized that they take a lot of unnecessary heat from fans. Those two should not be judged on the mistakes that Sarver and Kerr made prior to their hiring.

Didn't every single person on this board want the Suns to blow it up and rebuild? And now some of those posters are complaining about the Suns FO? Pathetic. Did you think blowing it up means posting winning records? That's cute but it blowing it up means you become one of the worst teams in the NBA and use the high draft picks to get better. ex. OKC, GSW, UTA, and now CLE is following that path.

Lets go down the list of major moves that they have made thus far.

1. Letting Amare go. I'm not going to explain this as if you watch the NBA at all, you should know that this was maybe the best decision the Suns have made in franchise history. +500...jk, +1

2. Trade J-Rich, Hedo (awful contract), Clark for a 1st round pick, Gortat and Carter's expiring contract. The Suns clearly win this trade. Gortat blossomed into a solid center in this league, that too one on a great contract while Hedo has continued to suck while J-Rich lasted less than 2 years there, as did Clark. +1

3. Trade the 1st round pick + Dragic for Aaron Brooks. Suns clearly lost in this trade. Brooks turned out to be a disaster for us and made little sense to throw away the 1st round pick we acquired from Orlando. However, it was rumored that Dragic at the time, hated PHX and did not want to stay here because of Carter or Hedo or something. Plus he supposedly broke his foot on glass doing something silly apparently as well. -1

4. Drafting Markieff Morris. This really wasn't that bad a pick considering that everyone else that was drafted after him hasn't really panned out much better. The only two exceptions is Kawhi Leonard and Kenneth Faried. Morris still shows the toughness and grit that we drafted him for and now his game just needs to be more consistent and he needs an identity. I don't think this was a bad move because like I said, there wasn't anyone better to get and Kieff still has a lot of potential. +1

5. Drafting Kendall Marshall. I was one of the fans who immediately predicted that this guy would be a bust in the NBA. I didn't see any shape or form in which his game would translate to the NBA as he was neither athletic, nor a good shooter and there are no good PGs in the league who can't do either of those things. However, like the Morris pick, there was nobody better to select here. Too early to judge on this move though as he may turn some eyes later on. INC

6. Deciding to rebuild and letting Nash and Hill walk. Nash was an unrestricted FA and we traded him for FOUR DRAFT PICKS WITH ONE LIKELY BECOMING A LOTTERY PICK. How many FOs can say that they traded an unrestricted free agent and got back a lottery pick from it? The Suns finally listened to their fans and decided to rebuild. This is definitely a good move in the right direction. +1

7. Trading Robin Lopez. Lopez was awful in PHX and many here wanted to trade him for a very late 2nd round pick and instead we were able to get rid of him for a 1st round pick as well as a younger player drafted in the top 5 and is still on the final year of his rookie contract. +1

8. Signing Goran Dragic. The Suns replaced the former Suns legend Nash with the former fan favorite Dragic. Dragic has had a very good season thus far but his stats and numbers are affected by the fact that he has had to switch systems under two HCs and playing with a rotation that is very inconsistent. Goran is the best player on this team and has been a brightspot this year with his effort. +1

9. Signing Michael Beasley.....I won't explain, this was a bad move. But it should be noted that the Suns wanted younger players, Beasley was young and flashed potential at times to become something bigger. The problem was that they overpaid him. -1

10. Acquiring Luis Scola....many don't like this signing but I think this is a move the Suns made so that they have some positive vet exp in the locker room. Plus this is essentially an investment, Scola is still a valuable player on a very good contract and can be traded this summer for something of good worth. Does not hurt us at all.... +1

11. Signing O'Neal. This has become a very nice surprise for us this year. Some hates this signing (Phrazbit) and thought he was prove very cancerous for the team and cause division in the locker room. Instead he has been playing great as a backup and at times even outplaying starter Marcin Gortat. He even said he loves it in PHX and wants to stay here. All this while playing in a year in which he has had many family problems with his daughter having to get surgery... +1

12. Trading for Marcus Morris. Morris was a 14th overall pick just a few years ago and has been buried on the Rockets depth chart due to them having a log jam. He never even got a legit shot at showing his talents in the NBA. Acquiring him for a 2nd rd pick was a brilliant move and then the thought of him and his twin brother perhaps motivating and raising one another's game to another level makes it even better. +1

13. Firing Gentry and hiring Hunter. Gentry was the HC of a team that consistently missed playoffs for 3 straight years (counting this year). The team showed no improvement and no matter how low the talent level is, I can't think of many HCs who don't get fired after having 3 consecutive years where the team missed playoffs. And if you look now, I think our guys are playing harder for Hunter than for Gentry this year. I think the whole passing up on Majerle and Turner (who was my favorite for the job) was poorly handled though. Its not fair to completely hire a guy that just came up (Hunter) over two guys that have been with the franchise for quite some time. -1

So in 13 big, key moves, the Suns made 3 bad moves. The Suns are now in a position to be very bad for the next few years while having many draft picks to use. We also don't have any awful contracts that are going to impact the way we handle business. We have solid cap space for the future right now. We are in a great position to rebuild right now. We hit on some of those draft picks and we'll be right back to contender status.

Bottom line is, the Suns future is not as bad as many of you say it is. Its actually pretty bright. Sure we don't have any young rookies or sophomores with potential like all the other cool teams but in 4 months we will. Our draft picks will account for that.

Feel free to argue any of the points that I made, that's why I made this thread. But please don't be hostile and keep it civil.

 

[S_Nash]

It could be worse. You could be a Nets fan.

Next year they'll roll out with D-Will, JJ, Wallace, Lopez and no cap room.

When they could've rolled out a team with Lillard, Favors, Kanter, Lopez and cap room to sign a max free agent.

 

[asudevil83]

ok i'll bite. the suns have clearly made some decent moves, but they've also made some stupid moves, and these stupid moves have prevented them from making REAL moves to better the franchise.

2010
1.) Let Amare go - great
2.) Signed Childress - terrible
3.) Signed Warrick - terrible
4.) traded Barbosa for Turk - terrible
5.) traded Rich/Clark/Turk for Gortat/Carter/First/Pietrus - great
6.) traded Dragic/First for Brooks - terrible
7.) Resigned Frye - ungradable

2011
1.) Draft Morris - ok
2.) still have Chill/Warrick eating up 20% of our cap space
3.) signed telfair - ok

2012
1.) Draft Marshall - probably terrible
2.) trade Nash - great
3.) sign Beasley - terrible
4.) sign Scola - ungradable (he's clearly nothing special, so the move can be graded on what we get for him via trade)
5.) COULD have traded for Harden. we had plenty of assets
6.) signed Oneal
7.) trade Lopez/Warrick for Johnson/First - great
8.) Offered Eric Gordon contract - bold

2013:
1.) trade for Marcus Morris - ok
2.) trade telfair for 2nd - ok

there are quite a few decent moves being made. but the problem i see is there is a lack of moves for high quality, high payed guys. and because of that we have an entire team comprised of mid grade role players. you arent going anywhere without at least 2 stars. we have none.

there havent been any moves made that say "this is the direction we are going" just a lot of "fill out the roster" moves. and we arent filling out the roster to build around anyone. its just a group of players. we arent a scoring team, we arent a defensive team, we arent a three point shooting team, we arent an isolation team, we arent post up team, we arent PnR team, we arent anything special ANYWHERE. we have a rookie head coach.

 

[Phrazbit]

These guys were not around for the Amare departure so they get no credit or blame for that.

Calling Morris a "+1" is a reach. At best you could say its a wash. Leonard, Shumpert, Faried, Vucevic... there were plenty of better options. And the last thing we needed was another stretch 4. Morris is a below average bench player and was a lousy choice.

Failing to rebuild over the last few seasons and instead "retooling" was a massive failure and waste of time. The Suns could have gotten the overhaul underway earlier by trading Nash and Hill during 2011 or 2012 but instead felt pushing for an 8th seed (and failing even in that) was a better use of their time.

They dodged a gigantic bullet when New Orleans saved them from their own stupidity and matched Eric Gordon's contract. If that had not happened it would count as a "-1,000,000" when weighing their moves. We would he hamstrung against the cap for several years with a 30 win team.

What does it say about Blanks that he made it his top priority in the offseason to sign a multi-year contract with a horrible player that no one wanted?

In nearly 3 years this front office has failed to accumulate anything worth building around. We have invested in players that are either just plain horrible or in role players.

So... here we are in year 3 and we are the worst team in the conference...

Their future is not horrible, but only because they lucked out and didnt get Gordon and because by pure dumb luck the Lakers MIGHT end up in the lotto. We are in a decent position to build from here on out, and I dont remotely trust the current regime, who in 3 years put together this cicrus, to be the ones to handle it.

 

[taz02]

It's not necessarily each individual move, you win some and you lose some. It’s the overall direction of the franchise that doesn't seem to have changed. It’s the lack of a consistent plan, and a failure to secure anyone worth building around. Obviously not all of this is the fault of the current management, but I haven’t seen anything that suggests they have this figured out.

They are in a position to improve going forward; however the coaching mess and horrible roster will make it difficult to attract any real talent in FA. This could go either way going forward. If the Lakers make the playoffs, we have to overpay a mid-level FA, and bomb out with our pick we will be in real trouble. I'm not necessarily disputing your position and it's true they have done some decent things but this is a star driven league. When was the last time the suns drafted, signed, or traded for an impact “star” player? Steve Nash in 04’.

The current moves have been a wash at best.

 

[JS22]

2010
1.) Let Amare go - great
2.) Signed Childress - terrible
3.) Signed Warrick - terrible
4.) traded Barbosa for Turk - terrible
5.) traded Rich/Clark/Turk for Gortat/Carter/First/Pietrus - terrible
6.) traded Dragic/First for Brooks - terrible
7.) Resigned Frye - ungradable

Eh?

It's not the "slam dunk" that it was, considering what Clark is doing in LA. But unloading the Turk contract should instantly make it an OK move.

 

[elindholm]

The Suns could never have beaten the Rockets' offer for Harden. Oklahoma City is in win-now mode, so they needed a quality scorer coming back. The Suns have no one near Kevin Martin's level.

 

[Mainstreet]

I notice Sarver has been excluded from this conversation. If we go back to the Suns not extending JJ and using two draft picks to trade Kurt Thomas, the record of the Suns FO has been terrible. Also the Suns have done a poor job of drafting players when they do use the draft. Over the pass two years the Suns FO has made less errors but that's about it. Only time will tell about the future.

 

[Bufalay]

2. Trade J-Rich, Hedo (awful contract), Clark for a 1st round pick, Gortat and Carter's expiring contract. The Suns clearly win this trade. Gortat blossomed into a solid center in this league, that too one on a great contract while Hedo has continued to suck while J-Rich lasted less than 2 years there, as did Clark. +1

Why is this trade included, but the one where Turkoglu and his awful contract were acquired is not?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Why is this trade included, but the one where Turkoglu and his awful contract were acquired is not?

Babby and Blanks officially came on board after acquiring Turkoglu.

Steve

 

[95pro]

I notice Sarver has been excluded from this conversation. If we go back to the Suns not extending JJ and using two draft picks to trade Kurt Thomas, the record of the Suns FO has been terrible. Also the Suns have done a poor job of drafting players when they do use the draft. Over the pass two years the Suns FO has made less errors but that's about it. Only time will tell about the future.

also under server was the marion - shaq swap. marion is still hustling and producing to this very day. i never understood the move especially with dantoni and the guys we had on our team.

this move was the catalyst pushing us towards mediocrity and eventually sucking so bad this year.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Babby and Blanks officially came on board after acquiring Turkoglu.

Steve

Who happened to be a Babby client. Pure coincidence, I'm sure.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Who happened to be a Babby client. Pure coincidence, I'm sure.

I also find it hard to believe Babby didn't have a lot of influence on that decision. Still, I'd lay that mess solely at the feet of Sarver. Babby wasn't brought in to make personnel evaluations so this is on Robert if he chose to listen to the wrong guy.

Steve

 

[KloD]

This front office has certainly made some mistakes, but so have all. There has been bitchin' about the Suns front offices on this board forever. Everyone hated Kerr, than they loved him. They hated Bryan Colangelo's moves, now he was practically a ledgend. If we look back at the last 10 years of ownership under Colangelo we can find a lot of poor personnel decisions. Fans love to be critical and dissect with hindsight assuming they have all the info. Should the Suns have dealt Nash and started the rebuild earlier? The answer seems an obvious yes, but we have no idea what offers they were getting and they have to weigh that against selling the team to the fans. These same fans that can't handle less than a season of the rebuild process. Every losing team has fans who think their team has the worst ownership/front office.

 

[Phrazbit]

This front office has certainly made some mistakes, but so have all. There has been bitchin' about the Suns front offices on this board forever. Everyone hated Kerr, than they loved him. They hated Bryan Colangelo's moves, now he was practically a ledgend. If we look back at the last 10 years of ownership under Colangelo we can find a lot of poor personnel decisions. Fans love to be critical and dissect with hindsight assuming they have all the info. Should the Suns have dealt Nash and started the rebuild earlier? The answer seems an obvious yes, but we have no idea what offers they were getting and they have to weigh that against selling the team to the fans. These same fans that can't handle less than a season of the rebuild process. Every losing team has fans who think their team has the worst ownership/front office.

This isnt year one of a complete overhaul though. This front office thought they had built a playoff team. We are not tanking like most teams do in when they begin a rebuild, instead our front office tried to make a winner and instead assembled a terrible team.

From what I have seen of their free agent priorities and scouting ability I dont see a reason to trust them going forward.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

ok i'll bite. the suns have clearly made some decent moves, but they've also made some stupid moves, and these stupid moves have prevented them from making REAL moves to better the franchise.

2010
1.) Let Amare go - great
2.) Signed Childress - terrible
3.) Signed Warrick - terrible
4.) traded Barbosa for Turk - terrible
5.) traded Rich/Clark/Turk for Gortat/Carter/First/Pietrus - terrible
6.) traded Dragic/First for Brooks - terrible
7.) Resigned Frye - ungradable

2011
1.) Draft Morris - ok
2.) still have Chill/Warrick eating up 20% of our cap space
3.) signed telfair - ok

2012
1.) Draft Marshall - probably terrible
2.) trade Nash - great
3.) sign Beasley - terrible
4.) sign Scola - ungradable (he's clearly nothing special, so the move can be graded on what we get for him via trade)
5.) COULD have traded for Harden. we had plenty of assets
6.) signed Oneal
7.) trade Lopez/Warrick for Johnson/First - great
8.) Offered Eric Gordon contract - bold

2013:
1.) trade for Marcus Morris - ok
2.) trade telfair for 2nd - ok

there are quite a few decent moves being made. but the problem i see is there is a lack of moves for high quality, high payed guys. and because of that we have an entire team comprised of mid grade role players. you arent going anywhere without at least 2 stars. we have none.

there havent been any moves made that say "this is the direction we are going" just a lot of "fill out the roster" moves. and we arent filling out the roster to build around anyone. its just a group of players. we arent a scoring team, we arent a defensive team, we arent a three point shooting team, we arent an isolation team, we arent post up team, we arent PnR team, we arent anything special ANYWHERE. we have a rookie head coach.

2010
5.) Just can't agree that this was a terrible trade

2011
2.) Chilldress was amnestied and Warrick was traded. So they aren't taking up any of our cap space. Unless you were referring to what they were taking up in 2011?

2012
5.) There is absolutely no proof that we could have put together a good enough package for OKC to trade with us instead of Houston.

 

[taz02]

Who is the best player acquired by the suns since Nash in 04?

 

[asudevil83]

2010
5.) Just can't agree that this was a terrible trade

2011
2.) Chilldress was amnestied and Warrick was traded. So they aren't taking up any of our cap space. Unless you were referring to what they were taking up in 2011?

2012
5.) There is absolutely no proof that we could have put together a good enough package for OKC to trade with us instead of Houston.

a.) i've edited my post....i got on a roll of typing "terrible".

b.) i was referring to that season where they were taking up a substancial amount of cap space, and not allowing us to make any moves. we are still techincally paying Childress for this season + 2 more....and really its hard to imagine Sarver not taking that into consideration when it comes to adding payroll.

c.) if you google "suns trade for harden" you'll find NUMEROUS articles that state the suns were unwilling to give up the draft picks necessary to make a Harden trade. i believe we were at the top of the list, but backed out. OKC wanted a package that included two assets and two firsts. the suns FO met with OKC FO just days before Harden was dealt. i think all we had to do was pull the trigger and Harden was ours.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This isnt year one of a complete overhaul though. This front office thought they had built a playoff team. We are not tanking like most teams do in when they begin a rebuild, instead our front office tried to make a winner and instead assembled a terrible team.

From what I have seen of their free agent priorities and scouting ability I dont see a reason to trust them going forward.

I'm not sure this is accurate. No front office is going to say we have stripped the cupboard bare so that we can be horrible and get good draft picks. I am concerned that they put this roster together and appeared to consider it a playoff contender but seriously, what else can they say to the fans.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

a.) i've edited my post....i got on a roll of typing "terrible".

b.) i was referring to that season where they were taking up a substancial amount of cap space, and not allowing us to make any moves. we are still techincally paying Childress for this season + 2 more....and really its hard to imagine Sarver not taking that into consideration when it comes to adding payroll.

c.) if you google "suns trade for harden" you'll find NUMEROUS articles that state the suns were unwilling to give up the draft picks necessary to make a Harden trade. i believe we were at the top of the list, but backed out. OKC wanted a package that included two assets and two firsts. the suns FO met with OKC FO just days before Harden was dealt. i think all we had to do was pull the trigger and Harden was ours.

Well, if the deal was something like what I've seen suggested - Gortat, Dudley, Dragic and multiple unprotected 1sts then hurray for us for not doing the deal. Houston had a lot more to work with and still remain competitive. To be in the conversation we would have had to strip the roster bare AND mortgage our future. And there's no reason to think that Harden would want to stay with a team that was him and nobody else, especially one that didn't have draft picks with which to help rebuild.

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

a.)

c.) if you google "suns trade for harden" you'll find NUMEROUS articles that state the suns were unwilling to give up the draft picks necessary to make a Harden trade. i believe we were at the top of the list, but backed out. OKC wanted a package that included two assets and two firsts. the suns FO met with OKC FO just days before Harden was dealt. i think all we had to do was pull the trigger and Harden was ours.

Suns had no assets to trade. They had first-round picks, but nothing outside of that. They needed a scorer to replace Harden, and the Suns simply don't have anyone even close to Kevin Martin. You can "believe that we were at the top of the list and backed out" all you want, but that is just not factual- that's your opinion. Fact is that the Suns could not offer anything close to what the Rockets could.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Suns had no assets to trade. They had first-round picks, but nothing outside of that. They needed a scorer to replace Harden, and the Suns simply don't have anyone even close to Kevin Martin. You can "believe that we were at the top of the list and backed out" all you want, but that is just not factual- that's your opinion. Fact is that the Suns could not offer anything close to what the Rockets could.

If you actually read all those articles he references you'll see they are all rampant with speculation. It appears to be confirmed that they wanted a prime player on his first contract plus another player and picks. We didn't have the player they wanted which suggests we would have had to add more than someone like Houston would have. Also, as you read through the articles you'll realize we were one of several teams trying to come up with enough to make the deal. I look at Houston's deal and it's better than anything we could have offered (IMO) given OKC's needs.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

I'm not sure this is accurate. No front office is going to say we have stripped the cupboard bare so that we can be horrible and get good draft picks. I am concerned that they put this roster together and appeared to consider it a playoff contender but seriously, what else can they say to the fans.

Steve

Tanking might not have been the right word. They didnt do an overhaul, which I think they should have done. I dont get what the plan is with this poorly assembled team. They certainly were not aiming for draft slots with their acquisitions of many veteran players. I have no doubt that their aim was to make a playoff contender and that their statements before the year were made in earnest. For most of the year we've only been playing one guy (Morris) who was not already 4+ years in the league. Why do you play such a veteran laden team if your goal isnt to win now?

The only "plan" I can gather from their statements and actions is they thought this team would win 45-50 games this year and appear as fertile ground to some big free agent this summer. And if thats the case then... they should be fired.

And really, they should be fired regardless. 3 years of regressions and we currently having the worst year since expansion.

 

[Bufalay]

Babby and Blanks officially came on board after acquiring Turkoglu.

Steve

Ok, I do agree that it seems like Babby probably had something to do with it. Anyway, if that trade cannot technically be attributed to this current front office, then letting Amare go cannot either.

 

[Cheesebeef]

their plan last off-season was a complete rebuild spending spree which would have made Dragic, Gordon and Beasely the cornerstones of the franchise moving forward... while drafting an awful PG with their lotto pick. That in of itself shows me the FO is a disaster.