Rookie QBs

[This_Guy]

The topic of QBs, rookies, young ones, franchise ones, etc seems to have a lot of opinions. Those of you that want to give McCown the leeway you'd give a rookie...that's your prerogative.

I've made no secret that I think King can play, but almost everyone else has the opinion that King is a never was, never will-be. About the same percentage agree with Bill Parcells that Big Ben is the greatest rookie QB since Dan Marino. So let's take a look at what Big Ben has done and compare it with 2 other QBs.

QB G GS COMP ATT % YDS TD INT SACKS W/L

A 5 4 78 113 69% 937 7 4 7 4/0
B 5 5 89 146 61% 875 7 4 11 4/1
C 6 6 104 172 60% 1139 4 4 18 2/4










QB A is Big Ben's stat line after his first 5 appearances
QB B is Shaun King's first 5 starts as a rookie '99
QB C is Josh McCown in his third year

Draw your own conclusions.

 

[spanky1]

The topic of QBs, rookies, young ones, franchise ones, etc seems to have a lot of opinions. Those of you that want to give McCown the leeway you'd give a rookie...that's your prerogative.

I've made no secret that I think King can play, but almost everyone else has the opinion that King is a never was, never will-be. About the same percentage agree with Bill Parcells that Big Ben is the greatest rookie QB since Dan Marino. So let's take a look at what Big Ben has done and compare it with 2 other QBs.

QB G GS COMP ATT % YDS TD INT SACKS W/L

A 5 4 78 113 69% 937 7 4 7 4/0
B 5 5 89 146 61% 875 7 4 11 4/1
C 6 6 104 172 60% 1139 4 4 18 2/4










QB A is Big Ben's stat line after his first 5 appearances
QB B is Shaun King's first 5 starts as a rookie '99
QB C is Josh McCown in his third year

Draw your own conclusions.

Statistics require a hell of a lot more variables than two to establish an accurate correlation from data. This is a VERY weak argument.

 

[SECTION 11]

TG: So why exactly isn't King starting then?

Feel free to bring something to the table besides, "Green wants to prove that he can polish a turd," because that's about all I've seen so far, which is laughable.

 

[Russ Smith]

Statistics require a hell of a lot more variables than two to establish an accurate correlation from data. This is a VERY weak argument.

Seems to me he gave you exactly what you asked for, it didn't make your point, so now you're attacking statistical correlation instead of explaining why if Josh has both a QB guru(Green) and a QB coach(Kruczek) now, and King had neither in Tampa as a rookie, that still doesn't count.

The argument against King is arm strength, or lack thereof. TG thinks he has enough to succeed in Green's vertical system, we won't know unless Green gives him a chance.

My suspicion is all the reports in camp that King looked bad were based on exactly what DG saw, he knows the offense, he can read defenses, his arm isn't strong enough.

 

[This_Guy]

TG: So why exactly isn't King starting then?

Feel free to bring something to the table besides, "Green wants to prove that he can polish a turd," because that's about all I've seen so far, which is laughable.

As I've noted, I'm surprised. It's cost me my season in fantasy football too.

This goes more to the "perception" that King is a "never has been" and also goes to the ridiculous notion that "McCown gives the Cardinals their best chance to win now".

 

[Russ Smith]

As I've noted, I'm surprised. It's cost me my season in fantasy football too.

This goes more to the "perception" that King is a "never has been" and also goes to the ridiculous notion that "McCown gives the Cardinals their best chance to win now".

Do you think King has the arm to "go vertical"?

 

[SECTION 11]

This goes more to the "perception" that King is a "never has been" and also goes to the ridiculous notion that "McCown gives the Cardinals their best chance to win now".

But wait a minute...
Green signed him for 2.2 big, per your recent, glowing recap.

From one side of your mouth is the assumption that Green signed him for his... play-making ability.
And from the other side of your mouth is now Green's own perception that King's a "never has been."

Well, color me a van down by the river, because I'm confused.

 

[TheCardFan]

As I've noted, I'm surprised. It's cost me my season in fantasy football too.

If you were counting on King to be your QB...your season was blown anyway. Bad plan.

 

[This_Guy]

Do you think King has the arm to "go vertical"?

Let me respond with questions.

1) Do the Rams have a vertical offense? (Yes)
2) Does King have a better arm than Bulger? (Yes)
3) Does it matter if you have a big arm when you don't attempt or complete long passes? (McCown has only thrown the ball more than 20 yards 17 times in 172 attempts and only completed 6)

King does not have one of the strongest arms in the league. Then again, his arm is stronger than that of Brady and Pennington, and it hasn't hurt those guys.

To put it another way, it's more important to see the field, make the right decision....and then let Fitzgerald and Q make plays. That's what DG wants. It's not like you need to throw 40 yard ropes to make this offense work appropriately.

 

[Russ Smith]

Let me respond with questions.

1) Do the Rams have a vertical offense? (Yes)
2) Does King have a better arm than Bulger? (Yes)
3) Does it matter if you have a big arm when you don't attempt or complete long passes? (McCown has only thrown the ball more than 20 yards 17 times in 172 attempts and only completed 6)

King does not have one of the strongest arms in the league. Then again, his arm is stronger than that of Brady and Pennington, and it hasn't hurt those guys.

To put it another way, it's more important to see the field, make the right decision....and then let Fitzgerald and Q make plays. That's what DG wants. It's not like you need to throw 40 yard ropes to make this offense work appropriately.

I just don't see it. I agree on Pennington but he's not nearly as accurate nor does he have the timing. Brady has a good arm, not a rocket but a good arm. I've just never seen King fire the ball deep but maybe that's the WR's he played with?

Bulger is all release and timing, doesn't have a gun either but he gets it out there and lets his WR run under it.

I don't honestly know, I do remember in the preseason game with Oakland that King read the blitz, stepped up and had a guy wide open deep(don't remember who) and badly underthrew the ball. That one play summed up my opinion of him then, if his arm was stronger he could be something.

I agree on Josh, don't have to convince me his arm strength is irrelevant right now, I just don't know about King's. Like you I'm trying to understand why King isn't playing. Unlike you I suspect it's something Green thinks is lacking in King, not Green not wanting to admit he was wrong about josh.

 

[This_Guy]

But wait a minute...
Green signed him for 2.2 big, per your recent, glowing recap.

From one side of your mouth is the assumption that Green signed him for his... play-making ability.
And from the other side of your mouth is now Green's own perception that King's a "never has been."

Well, color me a van down by the river, because I'm confused.

No. That was my response to the theory that Green would have yanked McCown if he thought King was any better. To that point, I noted that DG gave King a non-trivial, multi year deal. And Q certainly thought that King would end up the starter as well.

It's on this board, and public perception at large that thinks King is a "never has been". I'm merely pointing out that King was at one point in the Big Ben category in terms of a hot start, and he did not lose his job on the field and has not had a chance since. Not only that, but it's pretty good perspective to note that King was more effective as a rookie than McCown has been this year.

 

[Rats]

Well, color me a van down by the river, because I'm confused.

Geez, Section should we take up a collection...I didn't know the wife had thrown you out again.

 

[This_Guy]

I just don't see it. I agree on Pennington but he's not nearly as accurate nor does he have the timing. Brady has a good arm, not a rocket but a good arm. I've just never seen King fire the ball deep but maybe that's the WR's he played with?

Bulger is all release and timing, doesn't have a gun either but he gets it out there and lets his WR run under it.

I don't honestly know, I do remember in the preseason game with Oakland that King read the blitz, stepped up and had a guy wide open deep(don't remember who) and badly underthrew the ball. That one play summed up my opinion of him then, if his arm was stronger he could be something.

I agree on Josh, don't have to convince me his arm strength is irrelevant right now, I just don't know about King's. Like you I'm trying to understand why King isn't playing. Unlike you I suspect it's something Green thinks is lacking in King, not Green not wanting to admit he was wrong about josh.

Fair enough. Hopefully we'll see if I am right soon....before QB play costs the team the playoffs.

 

[Lex]

King does seem to have great leadership qualities, a very important part of a signal callers' resume, but I can't seem to get over how clumsy he looks in the pocket, and every time I've seen him in action, he's been a sack magnet.

Frankly, I don't care who's behind center, as long as Denny thinks he's got the right guy back there.