No Elite Player/Players

[GatorAZ]

thats his point is fitz was never top 5 in nfl, only at his position and you are saying top 5 nfl wide only.

I said top 5-10.

Thinking back to 08'...

(off the top of my head)
Manning, Brees
Peterson??
Fitz (his best regular season statistically and historic postseason)
Ware
J Harrison
Lewis??
Reed
Polamalu
Haynesworth??

I think it gets a little fuzzy when you include OL but I'm sure you could've thrown some in.

 

[kerouac9]

I said top 5-10.

Thinking back to 08'...

(off the top of my head)
Manning, Brees
Peterson??
Fitz (his best regular season statistically and historic postseason)
Ware
J Harrison
Lewis??
Reed
Polamalu
Haynesworth??

I think it gets a little fuzzy when you include OL but I'm sure you could've thrown some in.

Just '08, or are you talking about the five-year period. His best regular season wasn't even tops in the NFL at the position — Andre Johnson had over 100 more yards.

Similar production at more impact positions:
DeMarcus Ware, OLB
Jared Allen, DE
Adrian Peterson, RB
Drew Brees, QB
Peyton Manning, QB

Similar protection at similar impact positions:
Andre Johnson, WR
Ed Reed, S
Patrick Willis, ILB
Champ Bailey, CB
Joe Thomas, OT
Troy Polamalu, S

Those are 11 guys you could throw into the bingo shaker with Fitz and argue about. Boldin never even makes the list.

I guess you'd have to ask what five-year period are you talking about—when it comes right down to it. Fitz has been a great player, but it's hard to be an elite WR when you don't have anyone throwing you the ball. It's exceptionally difficult to be a Top 5 player in the NFL at WR when you don't have anyone throwing you the ball.

 

[GatorAZ]

Just '08, or are you talking about the five-year period. His best regular season wasn't even tops in the NFL at the position — Andre Johnson had over 100 more yards.

Similar production at more impact positions:
DeMarcus Ware, OLB
Jared Allen, DE
Adrian Peterson, RB
Drew Brees, QB
Peyton Manning, QB

Similar protection at similar impact positions:
Andre Johnson, WR
Ed Reed, S
Patrick Willis, ILB
Champ Bailey, CB
Joe Thomas, OT
Troy Polamalu, S

Those are 11 guys you could throw into the bingo shaker with Fitz and argue about. Boldin never even makes the list.

I guess you'd have to ask what five-year period are you talking about—when it comes right down to it. Fitz has been a great player,but it's hard to be an elite WR when you don't have anyone throwing you the ball. It's exceptionally difficult to be a Top 5 player in the NFL at WR when you don't have anyone throwing you the ball.

Well he didn't have the version of Kurt Warner we loved his entire career. In Fitz' 7-year prime from 05'-11' he led the NFL in TD receptions, receiving yards and was 3rd in total receptions to Wes Welker and Reggie Wayne. How many of those years did Fitz have quality QB play compared to those other two receivers?

Over that span:
Welker had Brady
Wayne had Manning
Fitz had the gloves version of Kurt for two years...

 

[kerouac9]

Well he didn't have the version of Kurt Warner we loved his entire career. In Fitz' 7-year prime from 05'-11' he led the NFL in TD receptions, receiving yards and was 3rd in total receptions to Wes Welker and Reggie Wayne. How many of those years did Fitz have quality QB play compared to those other two receivers?

Over that span:
Welker had Brady
Wayne had Manning
Fitz had the gloves version of Kurt for two years...

So what? Your argument is top 10 NFL player overall. Great WR; no one's arguing with that. Maybe he's a hall of famer if he can put together a couple more 1000+ yard seasons.

But WR isn't ever a top 3 positional value. Maybe not top 5.

 

[82CardsGrad]

So what? Your argument is top 10 NFL player overall. Great WR; no one's arguing with that. Maybe he's a hall of famer if he can put together a couple more 1000+ yard seasons.

But WR isn't ever a top 3 positional value. Maybe not top 5.

True... for the most part. However, back in the days of the Super Bowl run, Fitz was arguably OUR top 2-3 player/positional/value, next to Kurt of course!

 

[GatorAZ]

So what? Your argument is top 10 NFL player overall. Great WR; no one's arguing with that. Maybe he's a hall of famer if he can put together a couple more 1000+ yard seasons.

But WR isn't ever a top 3 positional value. Maybe not top 5.

Over that 7 year span no. If you take his two year peak window including the postseason, yes he was elite in my opinion. Ragarding the HOF he could probably play two more solid years and get in.

 

[cardncubfan]

Any players that end up on the top 100 voted by their own peers are "elite"

This.

 

[cardncubfan]

So what? Your argument is top 10 NFL player overall. Great WR; no one's arguing with that. Maybe he's a hall of famer if he can put together a couple more 1000+ yard seasons.

But WR isn't ever a top 3 positional value. Maybe not top 5.

There are quite a few people saying he's a first ballot HoF'er. I would agree, but I'm a homer.

 

[DVontel]

Any players that end up on the top 100 voted by their own peers are "elite"

Lol.

Don't tell me you consider Julian Edelman, Joe Flacco, & Darren Sproles "elite".

 

[GatorAZ]

Lol.

Don't tell me you consider Julian Edelman, Joe Flacco, & Darren Sproles "elite".

Adam Vinatieri is definitely better than Calais Campbell too.

 

[Austin Zonie]

Name 3 players who you would take over him at his position.

1) JJ Watt
2)....
3)...

Good point. How many players at a given position can/should be considered elite?

 

[Austin Zonie]

Fitz played his best when it mattered most. That's a plus in the elite category, imo. The best of the best up their game when it matters most.

 

[GatorAZ]

Good point. How many players at a given position can/should be considered elite?

Depends on the position. The furthest gap between the two best players at the same position is probably JJ Watt over the next best 3-tech (Wilkerson or CC). The difference between Aaron Rodgers aand the next best QB isn't nearly as wide. Same with WR imo.

 

[kerouac9]

Fitz played his best when it mattered most. That's a plus in the elite category, imo. The best of the best up their game when it matters most.

Game 1 vs Seahawks: DNP
Game 1 @ Seattle: 4 rec, 33 yards, 0 TDs
3 rec., 31 yards, 0 TDs versus the nobodies in the Carolina secondary.

Sure wish that Fitz had upped his game when it matters most last year.

Who's saying that Fitz is going to be a "First ballot" hall of famer? Kurt wasn't first-ballot, and he has a better case. Larry's numbers are going to look pretty pedestrian in seven or eight years, IMO. Right now he's only 21st all-time yards and TDs.

 

[AZCrazy]

Fitz was a top 10 performer league-wide for the middle of his career. Just imagine the legend he would have been without five FULL years of Kolb,Leinart,Skelton,Lindley,Anderson,Stanton pissing away the prime of his productivity. And he was still great. Who else did he have trying to hit the broad side of a barn? St Pierre? Navarre? Rattay?
He'd already have his face carved into the outside of the stadium if we had a steady qb for all that time.

 

[Austin Zonie]

Game 1 vs Seahawks: DNP

Game 1 @ Seattle: 4 rec, 33 yards, 0 TDs

3 rec., 31 yards, 0 TDs versus the nobodies in the Carolina secondary.



Sure wish that Fitz had upped his game when it matters most last year.



Who's saying that Fitz is going to be a "First ballot" hall of famer? Kurt wasn't first-ballot, and he has a better case. Larry's numbers are going to look pretty pedestrian in seven or eight years, IMO. Right now he's only 21st all-time yards and TDs.

I guess I was thinking of his playoff performances with adequate QB play. 2008 & 2009 playoff performances are what come to mind.

 

[Chaz]

Fitz played his best when it mattered most. That's a plus in the elite category, imo. The best of the best up their game when it matters most.

Exactly, who is going to step up and make a play when it is needed most.
Who is likely to make a play with the game on the line. Or the season on the line.

 

[TimTheToolmanTebow]

Its why we won't win in the playoffs again. To have no decent players at RB, QB and OLB is a death sentence.

 

[Jetstream Green]

John Brown is on his way. It may be next season before it is fully realized but defenses are going to have a hard time dealing with him I think.

If Ellington can stay healthy he has real potential.

This... and Bethel is an elite ST player and yes that is legit

 

[Catfish]

Back in the day, (when a 5 win season was meaningful), the Cards could only put fannies in the seats if the Cowboys or Vikings or Bears were coming into town. Even then the stadium turned to Silver---------Purple-------or Black------------depending on the team we were playing. The old man always had an elite player on the roster to put fannies in the seats without breaking the bank.

Now-------we have constant sellouts, and a deep roster, so Marquee names are not only not needed, but detrimental to freeing enough money to pay the core players.

 

[Phrazbit]

Elite = MVP caliber player
Star = top 5 at their position in the league

Your definition of elite shoots down the entire premise of your opening post. If "Elite" is an MVP caliber player then we've never had an elite player... ever. The only record I can find of any player even getting a vote was Kurt Warner in 2008... when he received 1 (one, the singular) vote. This put him 7th in the ballot.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Name 3 players who you would take over him at his position.

1) JJ Watt
2)....
3)...

2. Mohammed Wilkerson
3. Marcel Darius

Campbell is good but currently in the NFL there are some ridiculous good big men on defense.

 

[GatorAZ]

Your definition of elite shoots down the entire premise of your opening post. If "Elite" is an MVP caliber player then we've never had an elite player... ever. The only record I can find of any player even getting a vote was Kurt Warner in 2008... when he received 1 (one, the singular) vote. This put him 7th in the ballot.

Ok new system

Super elite: top-10 (MVP caliber)
Elite: top 2-3 at their position (dominant)
Star: top 5-7 at their position (star)
Great: top 7-11 at their position (quality starter)

How many guys would you put in tier 1?

 

[Shaggy]

I wouldn't match up a WR to a QB and try to figure who is more elite. You don't do it that way. Its per position. So Fitz to me is an elite WR, CC is an elite DL, Justin Bethel is an elite player on ST. I go by position and not overall. That's how I see it.

 

[BigRedRage]

Ok new system

Super elite: top-10 (MVP caliber)
Elite: top 2-3 at their position (dominant)
Star: top 5-7 at their position (star)
Great: top 7-11 at their position (quality starter)

How many guys would you put in tier 1?

Does it matter? Who have we had that was in your tier one in the past?

How many tier 1s did baltimore have for their superbowl?