Lipstick on a Pig: An Optimistic View of 2013 Free Agency

[kerouac9]

In 2011, when the Arizona Cardinals made a number of “big splashes” in free agency—signing TEs Jeff King and Todd Heap, OG Daryn Colledge, LB Stewart Bradley, and some other players while trading and extending the contract of Kevin Kolb—the new collective bargaining agreement was barely complete, and the contours of that agreement hadn’t fully been understood.

The “old way” of approaching free agency was to fill the starting slots in your roster with an eye to drafting the best players available at your most talent-poor positions to improve the overall quality of your roster.

Now that the new CBA has been in place for two offseasons and teams are coming to grips with a salary cap that expands by tenths of a percent instead of ten percent every year, franchises’ approaches to free agency have changed as well. And it’s going to re-shape how rosters function in the NFL. The “old way” was described by former Houston Texans GM Charley Casserly last year in an NFL.com piece: you have a dozen “core players,” a dozen solid roster players, and then the last two-dozen players on your roster are either developing or specialty veterans.

The new CBA really constrains teams from keeping that second category of players under contract. Guys who used to make between $3-6M per year weren’t the team’s stars, but they’d be players under second contracts who could be depended on to be good players on four- to six-year second contracts.

Those kinds of players are going to disappear in the NFL. The NFL under the new CBA is going to be a team with 8-10 stars making between $8-10M a year, two draft classes of 4-6 players, and then a bunch of pending free agents and veterans on one-year deals.

Teams with those 8-10 star players on the roster are going to be able to gracefully transition to the new NFL and still compete, as will teams with newly-minted starting quarterbacks drafted after the new CBA in 2011—high-quality starters playing for less than $5M per year. For the Arizona Cardinals, the transition is going to be much more challenging for the fan base.

The Cards are in a challenging position not because they lack solid role players—they’re in a challenging position because they’ve been unable to identify and develop star players at two very important positions (quarterback and pass rusher) while failing to draft and develop solid players on the offensive line.

What the Cards have done RIGHT this offseason is shed their dumbest contracts (Kolb and Bradley) while not taking on more dumb contracts.
What the Cards have done WRONG is fail to give fans any reason to expect that they’re going to field a competitive team in 2013. The ridiculous on-sheet promoting Bruce Arians on the Cards’ website is an example of the farce that Arizona Cardinals fans can expect this season.

What NFL fans in general Cardinals fans in particular can expect in the years to come is 30% roster turnover every season, as more middle-of-the-road veterans at non-impact positions which used to be considered core roster spots (#2 and #3 WR, #2 and #3 CB, safety, two-down linebacker, etc.) are going to be turned over on a fairly consistent one- to two-year cycle.

What the Arizona Cardinals are going to need to do in the draft going forward is draft almost exclusively at impact, core-roster positions like OL, QB, RB, TE, rush linebacker, and defensive line). The issue is that while Steve Keim and the scouting department have been good at finding contributors at non-impact positions in the middle and late rounds of the draft, they haven’t been able to identify players at impact positions who can become starters. What we’ve ended up with is drafting guys like Greg Toler who we develop and then release into free agency when we could have gotten that production from a half-dozen different free agents. We’ve also drafted fullbacks and kick returners and slot receivers only to watch them leave.

Every team in the NFL is going to push their chips into the center of the table on their ability to draft. The Arizona Cardinals are going to unfortunately take out the mistakes of the past on their fan base for another season. We can only hope that Keim and Licht can transfer their acumen at identifying role players in the draft to drafting core players whom we’ll be happy to keep on the roster on a second contract, as well as impact players like Calais Campbell, Daryl Washington, Patrick Peterson, and possibly Rob Housler whom we’ll make fantastically wealthy and the cornerstones of the franchise.

 

[Shane]

Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I understand the cap has remained mostly stagnant the last 3 years of the agreement and will continue to do so next year. But from what I understand it starts to jump pretty substantial after next year..IS this incorrect??

Oh and where was the optimistic view of this years FA?

 

[BW52]

If i remember correctly the Cards drafted Simeon Rice who got out of the desert because he hated AZ (the lack of nightlife,etc; not big city enough for him etc; and he wanted more cash). Andre Wadsworth drafted by Cards and his career was ended by major knee injuries.(I don`t blame Cards for that).Calvin Pace was a mistake.Dockett to some extent and Calais Campbell have starred for the Cards.So the Cards haven`t been completely unable to develop pass rushers.

At QB Whisenhunt bailing on ML hurt big time.Because of that decision the Cards ended up taking a gamble on Derek Anderson,Kevin Kolb,John Skelton,Ryan Lindley,Brian Hoyer etc;..That single decision had a major effect on this team and continues to effect today.Whis screwed the pooch big time IMO.

 

[Reddog]

The problem with the product will persist until we get a serviceable QB. Maybe Stanton is that guy but we will see. I assume they will address the Oline and pass rush in the draft and I think the FAs they filled in with on D will be fine and that side of that ball will be entertaining to watch.

There are lots of variables in the approach they are taking on the O side of the ball. RB, TE & QB are all mysteries. It will be more entertaining to watch than the crap we had to put up with the last year couple years because at least there is a plan.

 

[Sam Wise]

Honestly if we had added Fitzpatrick I would be so much happier with the upcoming season. Stanto was not good enough to be Stafford's back up(Shaun Hill), and now we think he can adequately lead us...... Hmm. At least RF had to earn his spurs on a bad team, and as a 7th round pick. He is not great but he is a leader and a good QB, he had to deal with a mini premadonna in Stevie Johnson, who actually like him. This signing would have probably let Larry know we are not completely tanking the season in his prime years. We have four players near elite staus, Fitzgerald, Campbell, Dwash, and PP21, other than that we are a JV team. I don't think the draft can save us this year, thus we are no developing for 2016. Larry will be 33 that year, Campbell, Dwash and PP21 will probably have moved on to greener pastures. Arians has added nothing talentwise while letting our top unit get dismantled with nothing in return. He may be making his statement, but the one being heard is "AWE WE SUCK AGAIN".

 

[Catfish]

2013.
What the Arizona Cardinals are going to need to do in the draft going forward is draft almost exclusively at impact, core-roster positions like OL, QB, RB, TE, rush linebacker, and defensive line). The issue is that while Steve Keim and the scouting department have been good at finding contributors at non-impact positions in the middle and late rounds of the draft, they haven’t been able to identify players at impact positions who can become starters. What we’ve ended up with is drafting guys like Greg Toler who we develop and then release into free agency when we could have gotten that production from a half-dozen different free agents. We’ve also drafted fullbacks and kick returners and slot receivers only to watch them leave.

Every team in the NFL is going to push their chips into the center of the table on their ability to draft. The Arizona Cardinals are going to unfortunately take out the mistakes of the past on their fan base for another season. We can only hope that Keim and Licht can transfer their acumen at identifying role players in the draft to drafting core players whom we’ll be happy to keep on the roster on a second contract, as well as impact players like Calais Campbell, Daryl Washington, Patrick Peterson, and possibly Rob Housler whom we’ll make fantastically wealthy and the cornerstones of the franchise.

K-9, I agree with most of what you have posted here. But you are dead wrong in your assumption that Keim and the Scouting Department are not capable of identifying key impact players and draft them.

Keim had virtually NO power over the draft, until last year when he was made a VP. Despite Michael's best efforts to elevate Keim over a three year period, he was trumped by both Graves and CKW until he reached the VP level. Only then was he allowed to insist on drafting OL who were skilled pass blockers.

This time he and Arians will have the most weight on player selection. I can't believe that you would seriously argue that they will not take high impact players in the upcoming draft. You do great dis-service to Keim when you say that we can ONLY HOPE that he can identify impact players. EVERYONE on this board knows that Keim was ALWAYS trumped by CKW who chose HIS player, and by Graves, (who then generally failed to sign them in time for TC).

Michael tried to give Keim more power after CKW's third year, by promoting him to Head Scout. That had no effect. The next year Michael made him Head Scout in charge of player personnel. He was still trumped by Whiz. Last year he was promoted to VP and Director of Player Personnel, and the best he could swing was to insist on the OL selections.

Whiz is finally gone, along with his contract giving him final say on players. Michael has made Keim GM. He now has the power, which he will use prudently by including Licht and Arians into the mix. Decisions will be Cardinal's Decisions. Keim has said so.

Arians has done nothing in his career that should make you in any way suspicious of him. So far, despite the complaining from you, cheesbeef, and a couple of others, BA has done all the right things to get us highly motivated players that we can afford, to field on this team. He WAS last year's Coach of the Year, (which should at least give you SOME clue that he knows what he is doing, but apparently doesn't register with you). For the life of me, I cannot understand your pure disgust for Keim and BA. You give them absolutely no credit for anything they have thus far accomplished in their career's, AND you insist that you are correct to do so. Keim has been promoted in each of the past 4 years. BA just made Coach of the year in his FIRST attempt as a HC, AND he has assembled a magnificent staff here in Arizona. Your stance on the performance of Arians and Keim is deplorable and ridiculous under the conditions. Seldom have I ever seen a new HC and GM be so poorly considered as the low esteem, (actually I should say complete lack of respect), that you harbor for these two. What ever happened to the traditional 'honeymoon' given for new hires such as these, at least until they PROVE themselves to be wrong. You have given them ZERO chance to succeed without them even getting one season to show that they can.

I will go on record as saying that, we may finish in the NFCW cellar again this year, BUT we will NOT have such a poor record as last year's 5-11. We WILL be a better team than that one was. Both Keim and BA will see to that, despite all your nay-saying.

 

[BW52]

K-9, I agree with most of what you have posted here. But you are dead wrong in your assumption that Keim and the Scouting Department are not capable of identifying key impact players and draft them.

Keim had virtually NO power over the draft, until last year when he was made a VP. Despite Michael's best efforts to elevate Keim over a three year period, he was trumped by both Graves and CKW until he reached the VP level. Only then was he allowed to insist on drafting OL who were skilled pass blockers.

This time he and Arians will have the most weight on player selection. I can't believe that you would seriously argue that they will not take high impact players in the upcoming draft. You do great dis-service to Keim when you say that we can ONLY HOPE that he can identify impact players. EVERYONE on this board knows that Keim was ALWAYS trumped by CKW who chose HIS player, and by Graves, (who then generally failed to sign them in time for TC).

Michael tried to give Keim more power after CKW's third year, by promoting him to Head Scout. That had no effect. The next year Michael made him Head Scout in charge of player personnel. He was still trumped by Whiz. Last year he was promoted to VP and Director of Player Personnel, and the best he could swing was to insist on the OL selections.

Whiz is finally gone, along with his contract giving him final say on players. Michael has made Keim GM. He now has the power, which he will use prudently by including Licht and Arians into the mix. Decisions will be Cardinal's Decisions. Keim has said so.

Arians has done nothing in his career that should make you in any way suspicious of him. So far, despite the complaining from you, cheesbeef, and a couple of others, BA has done all the right things to get us highly motivated players that we can afford, to field on this team. He WAS last year's Coach of the Year, (which should at least give you SOME clue that he knows what he is doing, but apparently doesn't register with you). For the life of me, I cannot understand your pure disgust for Keim and BA. You give them absolutely no credit for anything they have thus far accomplished in their career's, AND you insist that you are correct to do so. Keim has been promoted in each of the past 4 years. BA just made Coach of the year in his FIRST attempt as a HC, AND he has assembled a magnificent staff here in Arizona. Your stance on the performance of Arians and Keim is deplorable and ridiculous under the conditions. Seldom have I ever seen a new HC and GM be so poorly considered as the low esteem, (actually I should say complete lack of respect), that you harbor for these two. What ever happened to the traditional 'honeymoon' given for new hires such as these, at least until they PROVE themselves to be wrong. You have given them ZERO chance to succeed without them even getting one season to show that they can.

I will go on record as saying that, we may finish in the NFCW cellar again this year, BUT we will NOT have such a poor record as last year's 5-11. We WILL be a better team than that one was. Both Keim and BA will see to that, despite all your nay-saying.

Well said Catfish.

 

[Stop Whining]

Whine whine whine. Let Arians build this team the way he wants. BFD, he replaced some role players with other role players. Its his decision. The core of the team is still the same. The defense isnt going to be any worse, infact they'll probably run tackle better this year. Wait for the draft and the rest of FA and then judge his team after the regular season starts.

 

[Redheart]

I need results.

K-9 has every reason to question this team, based on what they have done.

What I find hard to see is optimism that they have got / or will get it right this time.

 

[TJ]

Whine whine whine. Let Arians build this team the way he wants. BFD, he replaced some role players with other role players. Its his decision. The core of the team is still the same. The defense isnt going to be any worse, infact they'll probably run tackle better this year. Wait for the draft and the rest of FA and then judge his team after the regular season starts.

I'll go as far as to wait until next season. This team is a year away from competing, and there isn't anyone available this offseason that will make us an immediate contender, particularly at QB.

That's the reality of the situation. If you think we're going to put pressure on SF or SEA, you're going to be disappointed. However, it's not a blemish on Keim or Arians. They are working with what's available to them while trying to undo all of the bad moves and bad contracts from the previous regime,

 

[desertdawg]

I read the title and thought this was going to be K9's Stanton thread.

 

[Stop Whining]

I'll go as far as to wait until next season. This team is a year away from competing, and there isn't anyone available this offseason that will make us an immediate contender, particularly at QB.

That's the reality of the situation. If you think we're going to put pressure on SF or SEA, you're going to be disappointed. However, it's not a blemish on Keim or Arians. They are working with what's available to them while trying to undo all of the bad moves and bad contracts from the previous regime,

Exactly.

Ive got more confidence and optimism now that Arians & Keim are running this team than the last two years with Whif & Graves. Cant wait for training camp at UoP so I can watch what a real training camp is supposed to look like. TEACHING. Putting the players in the best position to succeed. Accountability. Cant Fn wait!

 

[kerouac9]

Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I understand the cap has remained mostly stagnant the last 3 years of the agreement and will continue to do so next year. But from what I understand it starts to jump pretty substantial after next year..IS this incorrect??

Oh and where was the optimistic view of this years FA?

You are wrong about the expanding cap: http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/.../18/Leagues-and-Governing-Bodies/NFL-cap.aspx

You must be registered for see images

Cap used to expand by 10-12%. Those days are gone.

I think the optimistic view is that the Cards have understood how FA will operate going forward, and are not locking themselves into long-term deals with role players (Bertrand Berry and Chike Okeafor would never get five-year deals in the new NFL). The next step is delivering two or three draft classes that allow you to have your own stars and players in the fold, because increasingly stars in their prime are not going to attempt free agency.

 

[Cheesebeef]

K-9, I agree with most of what you have posted here. But you are dead wrong in your assumption that Keim and the Scouting Department are not capable of identifying key impact players and draft them.

Keim had virtually NO power over the draft, until last year when he was made a VP. Despite Michael's best efforts to elevate Keim over a three year period, he was trumped by both Graves and CKW until he reached the VP level. Only then was he allowed to insist on drafting OL who were skilled pass blockers.

This time he and Arians will have the most weight on player selection. I can't believe that you would seriously argue that they will not take high impact players in the upcoming draft. You do great dis-service to Keim when you say that we can ONLY HOPE that he can identify impact players. EVERYONE on this board knows that Keim was ALWAYS trumped by CKW who chose HIS player, and by Graves, (who then generally failed to sign them in time for TC).

I'm sorry but all of this is completely without any basis in fact. you have NO idea if Keim agreed with a majority of these picks or not. Because Keim was part and parcel of the front office, the reality is hope is all we have that he can right the ship, because until proven otherwise, the only thing we really know is that he was part of the group that got us in this mess. That is a fact that can't be denied.

Michael tried to give Keim more power after CKW's third year, by promoting him to Head Scout. That had no effect. The next year Michael made him Head Scout in charge of player personnel. He was still trumped by Whiz. Last year he was promoted to VP and Director of Player Personnel, and the best he could swing was to insist on the OL selections.

Whiz is finally gone, along with his contract giving him final say on players. Michael has made Keim GM. He now has the power, which he will use prudently by including Licht and Arians into the mix. Decisions will be Cardinal's Decisions. Keim has said so.

Arians has done nothing in his career that should make you in any way suspicious of him. So far, despite the complaining from you, cheesbeef, and a couple of others, BA has done all the right things to get us highly motivated players that we can afford, to field on this team.

how can you say this with such authority without seeing the product on the field? Here's the thing... you keep saying you KNOW things... I keep saying i believe what will happen. But to pretend i know one way or another seems pretty out there to me.

He WAS last year's Coach of the Year, (which should at least give you SOME clue that he knows what he is doing, but apparently doesn't register with you). For the life of me, I cannot understand your pure disgust for Keim and BA. You give them absolutely no credit for anything they have thus far accomplished in their career's,

um... I don't give Arians any kind of crap. Jury's out on him and I HOPE that Keim is going to be good, but the reality is Keim HASN'T accomplished anything tangible in his career except being part of a FO that's been a disaster for the most part... and then getting elevated to head it.

AND you insist that you are correct to do so. Keim has been promoted in each of the past 4 years. BA just made Coach of the year in his FIRST attempt as a HC, AND he has assembled a magnificent staff here in Arizona.

a "magnificent" staff here in Arizona? What is so magnificent about it? Have any of these guys ever led top 5 offenses/defenses?

Your stance on the performance of Arians and Keim is deplorable and ridiculous under the conditions. Seldom have I ever seen a new HC and GM be so poorly considered as the low esteem, (actually I should say complete lack of respect), that you harbor for these two. What ever happened to the traditional 'honeymoon' given for new hires such as these, at least until they PROVE themselves to be wrong. You have given them ZERO chance to succeed without them even getting one season to show that they can.

I will go on record as saying that, we may finish in the NFCW cellar again this year, BUT we will NOT have such a poor record as last year's 5-11. We WILL be a better team than that one was. Both Keim and BA will see to that, despite all your nay-saying.

I hope you're right, but I think we'll be a disaster next year sadly. Our offense was the worst thing I've ever seen last year... and we've done nothing IMO that will make it better. And our defense was very good last year... and we lost the DC that ran it and four starters.

 

[kerouac9]

If i remember correctly the Cards drafted Simeon Rice who got out of the desert because he hated AZ (the lack of nightlife,etc; not big city enough for him etc; and he wanted more cash). Andre Wadsworth drafted by Cards and his career was ended by major knee injuries.(I don`t blame Cards for that).Calvin Pace was a mistake.Dockett to some extent and Calais Campbell have starred for the Cards.So the Cards haven`t been completely unable to develop pass rushers.

At QB Whisenhunt bailing on ML hurt big time.Because of that decision the Cards ended up taking a gamble on Derek Anderson,Kevin Kolb,John Skelton,Ryan Lindley,Brian Hoyer etc;..That single decision had a major effect on this team and continues to effect today.Whis screwed the pooch big time IMO.

Simeon Rice was drafted--what?--15 years ago? Nearly 20? Campbell is a good player, but he's not an elite pass rush end or linebacker. Dockett is an undertackle everyone agrees is playing out of position.

Meanwhile, we got nothing out of Cody Brown, and little (as rushers) out of Schofield and Acho. We've tried to get short-term fixes in free agency from Bertrand Berry, Chike Okeafor, Clark Haggans, Joey Porter, and Travis LaBoy.

Catfish can absolve Steve Keim of all the Cards' draft sins since Whisenhunt came on board, but that's a leap of faith that I'm not willing to make. He was made the "super scout" then GM for some reason aside from him giving good off-the-record quotes to Darren Urban and Kent Somers. I prefer to give him some credit and some blame--his blame escalating with his level of title in the organization.

The fact remains that we have no drafted running back, no drafted outside linebacker, no offensive lineman, no quarterback under Keim's time with the team that has been worth seeing though the termination of his contract--much less extending.

That can be forgiven, but not ignored.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Whine whine whine.

Preach, preach, preach

Let Arians build this team the way he wants. BFD, he replaced some role players with other role players. Its his decision. The core of the team is still the same. The defense isnt going to be any worse, infact they'll probably run tackle better this year.

Go find the thread for Cardinal cheerleaders.

Wait for the draft and the rest of FA and then judge his team after the regular season starts.

If you don't care what people have to say until after the regular season starts, then why bother coming here before the beginning of the regular season ? So you can be a condescending to people ?

You may have the name Stop Whining, but maybe you should stop preaching. Cause if all you are going to do between now, and the regular season is tell everyone to shut up unless it is some sugar coated, untrue bubble gum topic then why not just wait till then to say anything.

We are going to talk about what we wanna talk about. You don't agree. Fine.

But you can disagree without personal attacks. Get a grip.

 

[bankybruce]

You are wrong about the expanding cap: http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/.../18/Leagues-and-Governing-Bodies/NFL-cap.aspx

You must be registered for see images

Cap used to expand by 10-12%. Those days are gone.

I think the optimistic view is that the Cards have understood how FA will operate going forward, and are not locking themselves into long-term deals with role players (Bertrand Berry and Chike Okeafor would never get five-year deals in the new NFL). The next step is delivering two or three draft classes that allow you to have your own stars and players in the fold, because increasingly stars in their prime are not going to attempt free agency.

I had heard otherwise on a few occiasion on the radio, but you are 100%.

Per a source with extensive knowledge of the design and implementation of the cap, the formula will experience a “smoothing” in the coming years, with no one year resulting in a dramatic leap. The thinking is that, if the cap shoots up dramatically from one year to the next, it won’t be fair to the players who signed a big contract in the year in which the cap was lower.

As a result, teams that deal with current cap problems by pushing money into the future under the assumption that there will be extra space at some point could be positioning themselves for a perpetual cap purgatory.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/15/salary-cap-spike-not-expected-this-year-or-any-year/

To me, this shows me how smart the team is being with contracts so they do not put us in a bad spot. We can build through the draft and lock up core players while replenishing role players.

 

[BW52]

Simeon Rice was drafted--what?--15 years ago? Nearly 20? Campbell is a good player, but he's not an elite pass rush end or linebacker. Dockett is an undertackle everyone agrees is playing out of position.

Meanwhile, we got nothing out of Cody Brown, and little (as rushers) out of Schofield and Acho. We've tried to get short-term fixes in free agency from Bertrand Berry, Chike Okeafor, Clark Haggans, Joey Porter, and Travis LaBoy.

Catfish can absolve Steve Keim of all the Cards' draft sins since Whisenhunt came on board, but that's a leap of faith that I'm not willing to make. He was made the "super scout" then GM for some reason aside from him giving good off-the-record quotes to Darren Urban and Kent Somers. I prefer to give him some credit and some blame--his blame escalating with his level of title in the organization.

The fact remains that we have no drafted running back, no drafted outside linebacker, no offensive lineman, no quarterback under Keim's time with the team that has been worth seeing though the termination of his contract--much less extending.

That can be forgiven, but not ignored.

Screwups have been made.That`s true.Campbell might not be a pass rushing terror but he is a very solid all-around DE while is under contract thru 2016.Daryl Washington has improved his pass rushing numbers from the inside spot and is getting better and is sdigned long term thru 2017.Acho and Schofield are okay but neither can stay healthy a full season.FWIW Levi Brown is still around (opinions vary on his value and what he brings weekly).the cupboard isn`t bare and i doubt that the Cards will be worst than last season.

 

[Stop Whining]

Preach, preach, preach





Go find the thread for Cardinal cheerleaders.



If you don't care what people have to say until after the regular season starts, then why bother coming here before the beginning of the regular season ? So you can be a condescending to people ?

You may have the name Stop Whining, but maybe you should stop preaching. Cause if all you are going to do between now, and the regular season is tell everyone to shut up unless it is some sugar coated, untrue bubble gum topic then why not just wait till then to say anything.

We are going to talk about what we wanna talk about. You don't agree. Fine.

But you can disagree without personal attacks. Get a grip.

Rug. I havent personally attacked anyone on here yet and certainly not you. Sorry you took offense to my broad stroke. Sometimes the negativity gets alittle tiring on here with all the Cardinal bashing.

After that abortion last season, I wouldnt exactly call me a Cardinal cheerleader but as Ive said before Im looking forward to this team getting turned around. I think we can all agree on that as fans.

Feel free to talk about whatever you want.

No hard feelings Rug and if your at camp this season I'll even buy you an overpriced beer. How bout that?

 

[BW52]

Preach, preach, preach





Go find the thread for Cardinal cheerleaders.



If you don't care what people have to say until after the regular season starts, then why bother coming here before the beginning of the regular season ? So you can be a condescending to people ?

You may have the name Stop Whining, but maybe you should stop preaching. Cause if all you are going to do between now, and the regular season is tell everyone to shut up unless it is some sugar coated, untrue bubble gum topic then why not just wait till then to say anything.

We are going to talk about what we wanna talk about. You don't agree. Fine.

But you can disagree without personal attacks. Get a grip.

try some of your own medicine.You tell someone to knock off the attacks and then you be a smartass and tell somone to go find the thread for Cards cheerleaders.Be consistent.Both sides have rights to their opinions.

 

[Mitch]

Rug. I havent personally attacked anyone on here yet and certainly not you. Sorry you took offense to my broad stroke. Sometimes the negativity gets alittle tiring on here with all the Cardinal bashing.

After that abortion last season, I wouldnt exactly call me a Cardinal cheerleader but as Ive said before Im looking forward to this team getting turned around. I think we can all agree on that as fans.

Feel free to talk about whatever you want.

No hard feelings Rug and if your at camp this season I'll even buy you an overpriced beer. How bout that?

I agree with you, SW, the defense this year will tackle A LOT better, and will be more physical up front...and will be much deeper as well.

 

[Sam Wise]

I agree with you, SW, the defense this year will tackle A LOT better, and will be more physical up front...and will be much deeper as well.

Wow the SARCASM is palpable.

 

[Cheesebeef]

K-9 and Cheesebeef, -----there is a word that is used for those who come on a board and who seek only to speak negatively about anything and everything in the organization. That word is Troll. It is also the word that I choose to use for the two of you at this time. Your complete assassination of Keim, and of Licht, is also an assassination of Michael Bidwill, as he selected both men to fix what Whiz ruined here. Had he not fired Graves and Whiz and his entire offense, and allowed them yet another year to tear down what was given to Whiz as a SB team, you would be far more entitled to assassinate Michael. To attack him, Keim, and Arians at this stage of a new season, however, is simply asinine and uncivil, and it is in poor taste to most people who look to this board as a place to share their love of the Cardinals.

I fault no one for attacking someone who has clearly failed in their duties and responsibilities. Attacking Keim, and Arians, before they even field their first team together, is the same as attacking the man who hired them. Michael did what he thought was best. Both Keim and Arians are doing what they think is best for the retooling of the roster. Yet you, with your insistence that you are right and they are all wrong, are denigrating the only people who have so far attempted to fix this team that Whiz and Graves destroyed.

In our world, it is civil, and customary to give a new hire the benefit of the doubt as he goes about trying to right a wrong. You two Trolls, however, have chosen to dismiss every move they have made, or even suggested, as wrong, even before they have a CHANCE to prove themselves right. As a longtime member of the Cardinal's Nation, I find that vulgar, and disgusting. To claim that one of their shortcomings was their failure to notify the fans of their intention to destroy the team. I have news for you. You are not entitled to notification of anything they do, or are about to do. They answer only to Michael Bidwill, not to us on the board, and certainly not to a couple of Trolls who have been allowed to hang out here. I, along with the more civilized people who enjoy recreating on this board laud the efforts that they have made thus far. There will be plenty of time for denigration should they fail in their attempts. Until then, I, for one, would certainly hope that you would grow some manners, and at least give this new management team a chance to do their jobs without haggling coming to them from the two of you.

This post is totally uncalled for. Just talk football and leave the personal attacks off the board. Not to mention you're just totally lying about stuff above. I gave the team props for Powers, Cason, cutting Kolb, Bradley, understood cutting Wilson. But jut because I dont laud ALL o their moves doesn't make me a troll and the guy who calls for civility but yet unleashes with a purely personal attack post ain't making this place any better. It just stokes a flame war which I have no desire to engage in.

 

[AZ Native]

Who needs cable?

 

[Doc Cardinal]

This post is totally uncalled for. Just talk football and leave the personal attacks off the board. Not to mention you're just totally lying about stuff above. I gave the team props for Powers, Cason, cutting Kolb, Bradley, understood cutting Wilson. But jut because I dont laud ALL o their moves doesn't make me a troll and the guy who calls for civility but yet unleashes with a purely personal attack post ain't making this place any better. It just stokes a flame war which I have no desire to engage in.

I don't think anyone else is calling you trolls.

Trolls to me are not really true fans.....just people wanting to start something.

To me that's the way you guys have always operated......you'd do the same thing with any regime.

It's your motus operandi.......the way you roll.