Free Agent Value

AzStevenCal

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Ignoring the Lebron circus, who do you think made the best and worst FA deals this offseason? I know it's not quite over yet but so far, I'd rank the best this way:

1. Lance Stephenson - Head case, incredible all around player. It's a short enough deal and a small enough contract that it won't kill you if he derails and if he doesn't, it's unmatched bang for the buck. He'll need to improve his outside shot to work in that offense but I see no reason he won't be able to.

2. Isaiah Thomas - Whether Bledsoe stays or goes Thomas looks to be in the right place with the right head coach. Despite the mediocre percentage, he has a nice 3 point shot but needs better judgement on when to take them. Hopefully he'll have to force fewer of them with our tempo. His contract says mediocre player but his stats say he's a real weapon.

3. Ed Davis - Great potential with an inconsistent history. If Boozer beats him out for court time, he'll probably dog it and be a mid-season trade chip. But if he gets a fair chance to earn minutes he might end up starting for the Lakers. Regardless, it's such a low priced deal that even if he hurts you, the damage will be minimal. And with that contract and his potential, he's likely to draw trade interest even if he fails. Until then you get a two way player that's as likely to dominate as he is to disappear and there's always the chance that Kobe will scare him into reaching that next level.

I see the bad deals as follows:

1. Kyrie Irving - He's a poor man's Allen Iverson but he's paid like he's the real deal. Lebron is one of the most team oriented superstars the game has ever seen. This looks to be a real clash of styles although it's always possible Lebron can teach him what it means to be part of a team. But probably not. Kyrie will continue to get his stats and frequently cost his team in the process.

2. Carmelo Anthony - He's a better player than a lot of us give him credit for. But this isn't a team on the verge of winning it all and his contract insures it will stay where it is for awhile. It might keep fans in the seats but a sign and trade that brought them good young talent would have helped the franchise far more.

3. Paul Pierce - The contract isn't that bad but Paul is 36. An old 36. He always had an old man's game but he's now assisted living old. He's also going to hear it from the fans because he isn't the guy he replaced. Trevor Ariza was perfect for that team and Pierce is a flawed plug-in. He can't hit the outside shot like Trevor and he can't defend like Trevor. He'll bring some leadership but they needed a player and a leader. Paul is likely to miss even more games this season and it's hard to lead from the bench, let alone play.

4. Gordon Hayward - Good player but not good enough for that contract. Utah was between a rock and a hard place here so maybe they had to make this decision but overpaying for anything less than a superstar is rarely the right call. With four years of experience, the Gordon they saw last year is probably pretty close to the Gordon they'll have to live with for the next 5 years. His career stats suggest he's better than average, his salary demands he reach another level.

Channing Frye may well deserve to be on this list but I think we've bashed him enough. I'd rather we not re-visit that scene. I also didn't know what to do with Chris Bosh. I think he's overpriced but it's not a horrible signing for a year or two but he has a lot of mileage on that body and I think he'll be spent long before his 5 year deal runs out.

Steve
 
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Chaplin

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Still a bit confused why Ed Davis has all this "potential". I think people are so impressed by his deal that it inflates his importance. Quality big men are hard to come by, especially in this offseason, so if Davis had all this potential, why didn't he command more money?

We see the Lakers sign a big man for cheap, all of a sudden it's one of the greatest deals in the league. But take a look at that big man and you'll see it's hard to imagine him being paid more, unless he's overpaid, which tends to happen a lot in this league. And yet, he is neither overpaid or any good. Not sure that makes him a good value. He's been around long enough that he should have shown more than what he has by now.
 
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AzStevenCal

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Still a bit confused why Ed Davis has all this "potential". I think people are so impressed by his deal that it inflates his importance. Quality big men are hard to come by, especially in this offseason, so if Davis had all this potential, why didn't he command more money?

We see the Lakers sign a big man for cheap, all of a sudden it's one of the greatest deals in the league. But take a look at that big man and you'll see it's hard to imagine him being paid more, unless he's overpaid, which tends to happen a lot in this league. And yet, he is neither overpaid or any good. Not sure that makes him a good value. He's been around long enough that he should have shown more than what he has by now.

His per 36 minutes suggests he'll pull in around 13 points and 10 boards a night as a starter. He's had an above average PER the last couple of years and they are getting him for a bargain price. That seems like good value to me. I'm not railing that we didn't sign him but looking at it objectively it seems to be a very good deal. Prior to the offseason I would have expected him to get more than double his current deal.

Steve
 

Chaplin

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His per 36 minutes suggests he'll pull in around 13 points and 10 boards a night as a starter. He's had an above average PER the last couple of years and they are getting him for a bargain price. That seems like good value to me. I'm not railing that we didn't sign him but looking at it objectively it seems to be a very good deal. Prior to the offseason I would have expected him to get more than double his current deal.

Steve

The guy averages 15 minutes per game for his career. They're not paying for 36 minutes of Ed Davis per game (which is why per 36 stats are meaningless). He can give them a good 1 million dollars worth of time during the season, but beyond that? He has a lot to prove.

I just think if a guy has that much potential, there should be no need to accept a deal for that low dollar amount. My guess is that nobody offered him anything better, and that has got to say something.
 
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AzStevenCal

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The guy averages 15 minutes per game for his career. They're not paying for 36 minutes of Ed Davis per game (which is why per 36 stats are meaningless). He can give them a good 1 million dollars worth of time during the season, but beyond that? He has a lot to prove.

I just think if a guy has that much potential, there should be no need to accept a deal for that low dollar amount. My guess is that nobody offered him anything better, and that has got to say something.

Per 36 minutes aren't meaningless, they CAN be meaningless. In Ed's case, they appear to be reflective of his play when he does get the minutes. The year he averaged 28 minutes per for the 81 games he played with Toronto and Memphis, he put up per 36 numbers of 14 and 10. 28 to 36 isn't that much of a stretch. And unless I'm reading it wrong, he's averaged almost 21 minutes per game for his career, not 15. I'm not calling him a star, just good value, dollars to production. He has the potential to be much better but he appears to be good value even if this is all he'll ever be.

Steve
 

Chaplin

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Per 36 minutes aren't meaningless, they CAN be meaningless. In Ed's case, they appear to be reflective of his play when he does get the minutes. The year he averaged 28 minutes per for the 81 games he played with Toronto and Memphis, he put up per 36 numbers of 14 and 10. 28 to 36 isn't that much of a stretch. And unless I'm reading it wrong, he's averaged almost 21 minutes per game for his career, not 15. I'm not calling him a star, just good value, dollars to production. He has the potential to be much better but he appears to be good value even if this is all he'll ever be.

Steve

NBA.com had him at like 15.2 mpg, but of course they could be wrong.
 

Chaplin

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I think those were just his 2013-2014 numbers.

Steve

Could be, I was doing a comparison between him and Tolliver at the time.

I still think Ed Davis is not even close to being as great a signing for the Lakers as everyone here seems to think. Definitely a good signing, considering they only paid him a million. But if he was getting Tolliver money, he'd be on the verge of being overpaid.
 
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AzStevenCal

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Could be, I was doing a comparison between him and Tolliver at the time.

I still think Ed Davis is not even close to being as great a signing for the Lakers as everyone here seems to think. Definitely a good signing, considering they only paid him a million. But if he was getting Tolliver money, he'd be on the verge of being overpaid.

I hope you're right. We faced the Grizzlies 4 times this past season. The last game Davis was a non-factor but in the first three games they played without Gasol and Ed was arguably the best player in the game. They played a more open style with him and he embarrassed us. He got several of our players in foul trouble and shot a blistering percentage (68%) from the field and averaged more than 13 boards. And that was while playing just 30 minutes per game. He blocked shots and played good defense, his only flaw was his free throw shooting. Maybe he can only dominate like this against us but OTOH, maybe he just needs to escape a style built around Gasol.

Steve
 

Chaplin

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You may be right though. I forgot the fact that the Lakers are so bad, they made Nick Young into a star. Ed Davis might be their next Pau at that rate.
 

Errntknght

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NBA.com had him at like 15.2 mpg, but of course they could be wrong.

15.2 is his mpg for 2013-14, as Steve guessed. 20.7 for his career. On a year to year basis he has been consistent. For example his reb/36 has been
10.4, 10.3, 10.2 and 9.8; FG% .576, .513, .539, .534; blk/36 1.5, 1.5, 1.9, 1.6; off eff (the avg for PFs is 2.07) 3.02, 2.32, 2.58, 2.35. (Frye last year 1.75, Markieff 2.07, Marcus 1.81, Plumlee 1.97, Len 1.52, Tucker 2.13).

His FG% against at-the-rim was 43.3 - in the top 10% of all bigs.

Of course its a red flag that Memphis didn't give him a QO and a bigger one that he accepted 2M/2yr so there may indeed be something amiss that we don't know about. If he was just desperate to escape Zach's shadow or disliked playing for Memphis then the Lakers got the biggest steal of the off season.
 
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AzStevenCal

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Steve, where does Parsons fall in there for you?

He makes Dallas better even though it's hard to see him worth the money. But if Dirk and Chandler both have another good season in them, he might actually be enough to make them a true finals threat. I think he's overpaid but it's hard to take a shot at a guy who might give them a chance at a title.

Steve
 

Superbone

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He makes Dallas better even though it's hard to see him worth the money. But if Dirk and Chandler both have another good season in them, he might actually be enough to make them a true finals threat. I think he's overpaid but it's hard to take a shot at a guy who might give them a chance at a title.

Steve

Sounds about right to me. Overpaid but a nice piece to add.
 

sunsfan88

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I think the Gortat signing was really good for Washington. With the way big men get paid, I thought some team might offer him $15M+ especially since he's a veteran who doesn't have a lot of mileage on him.
 

JCSunsfan

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I think the Gortat signing was really good for Washington. With the way big men get paid, I thought some team might offer him $15M+ especially since he's a veteran who doesn't have a lot of mileage on him.

yes. I think if McD had know he was going to go that inexpensively, he might have tried to sign him back.
 

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