Does adding Melvin Ingram make us an elite defense?

[Lomax to Green 84]

I really think that is a big part of the Cardinals conversation going on right now. Most prognosticators will say if it comes down to either a Riley Reiff or a Melvin Ingram, go with the o-lineman. But that may not be what the Cards are thinking. Sure, adding Reiff will potentially make a subpar offensive line at least respectable. But on the other hand, adding a dynamic pass rusher like Ingram potentially makes a very good defense downright nasty.

Mike Lombardi mentioned that teams will often focus in free agency on a particular weak spot and will invest alot of money resigning their own, adding players, and restructuring contracts etc.. for that weakness (in our case offensive line). Those same teams will then often go a totally different direction early in the draft. In the case of the Cardinals, we resigned Levi Brown, signed Adam Snyder, and restructured the contracts of both Sendlien and Colledge. If Lombardi's theory is correct, then the Cards may not be heading in the direction of offensive line with that first pick.

Ingram is intruiging because he really was the man for the South Carolina defense. Defensive End, Outside Linebacker, Inside Linebacker, even D-Tackle were spots he worked from. What I really like about all of the top SEC linebackers (Ingram, Hightower, Upshaw) is that they all are big 260+ pound guys. Instead of having outside backers that you have to pump up to get close to the 255-260 range, these guys are natural 265-275 pound guys who could actually benefit from dropping a few pounds. It's alot easier to go from 270 to 260 then it is to go from 250 to 260. Those 250 pound guys are often completely maxed out.

I think Ingram is the pick if he is there at #13.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

I am starting to believe we may be trading down 5-10 spots, which I don't mind but only as long as we pick up a 2nd round pick.

 

[slanidrac16]

I really think that is a big part of the Cardinals conversation going on right now. Most prognosticators will say if it comes down to either a Riley Reiff or a Melvin Ingram, go with the o-lineman. But that may not be what the Cards are thinking. Sure, adding Reiff will potentially make a subpar offensive line at least respectable. But on the other hand, adding a dynamic pass rusher like Ingram potentially makes a very good defense downright nasty.

Mike Lombardi mentioned that teams will often focus in free agency on a particular weak spot and will invest alot of money resigning their own, adding players, and restructuring contracts etc.. for that weakness (in our case offensive line). Those same teams will then often go a totally different direction early in the draft. In the case of the Cardinals, we resigned Levi Brown, signed Adam Snyder, and restructured the contracts of both Sendlien and Colledge. If Lombardi's theory is correct, then the Cards may not be heading in the direction of offensive line with that first pick.

Ingram is intruiging because he really was the man for the South Carolina defense. Defensive End, Outside Linebacker, Inside Linebacker, even D-Tackle were spots he worked from. What I really like about all of the top SEC linebackers (Ingram, Hightower, Upshaw) is that they all are big 260+ pound guys. Instead of having outside backers that you have to pump up to get close to the 255-260 range, these guys are natural 265-275 pound guys who could actually benefit from dropping a few pounds. It's alot easier to go from 270 to 260 then it is to go from 250 to 260. Those 250 pound guys are often completely maxed out.

I think Ingram is the pick if he is there at #13.

I'd be fine with going on the defensive side of the ball. My concern with Ingram( from what I read) is he was a DE and doesn't have the reputation as having the most consistant motor. I'd rather have a guy like Hightower, if you are looking at the LB position. He has played inside and outside his college career.
Don't have to wait too much longer now!

 

[CtCardinals78]

I am starting to believe we may be trading down 5-10 spots, which I don't mind but only as long as we pick up a 2nd round pick.

I'm on board with this. Move down 5-10 spots get a 2nd rounder and pick up Upshaw or Hightower and call it a pretty successful day. I too have a feeling the Cards will be moving down.

 

[Vermont Maverick]

I'm on board with this. Move down 5-10 spots get a 2nd rounder and pick up Upshaw or Hightower and call it a pretty successful day. I too have a feeling the Cards will be moving down.

Need to find a trading partner to do that. This draft is a crapshoot from 7 to 25 - not a big drop off. Maybe someone could move up if they really want a certain position, maybe Barron?

Maybe someone would move up two or three spots, but that's going to net us a third, not a second.

 

[Garthshort]

I heard a couple of experts, one might have been Bill Polian, say that there are only 20 guys in the draft that he would give a first round grade to. If that's correct you can't trade back too far.

 

[Jetstream Green]

but Polian has not had a good draft in awhile

 

[CardsFan88]

There's also guys who always slip in higher than expected. Sometimes it's just a couple, sometimes it might approach ten.

20 1st round grades might also mean you can pick from the last five at around #22-25 because some guys slip in unexpectedly.

So Polian might be judging the number a little lower than some of us, or we could be misinterpreting him by thinking that all 20 of his first round grades will be picked in the first 20 picks, or both and will be drafted in the upper section of the 2nd round.

Well in about 48 hours roughly, the 1st round should be over and we'll know.

 

[Longcolts]

Yep, about this time or maybe even a bit earlier we will know what the Cardinals are thinking. Then it will be ...Let the griping begin!

 

[Totally_Red]

It will be very interesting to see exactly who falls to the Cardinals at #13 and whether they do in fact trade down and, if so, who with. I saw a report from Michael Lombardi that one of the guys who is hard to project is Riley Reiff who could go anywhere from #10 (Bills) to #32 (Giants). Ingram seems to be similar: could go #7 to Jax or much much later.

I don't know if Melvin Ingram is enough better than guys available later that we don't address the offense in the first round, be it O-line or WR.

 

[Bodha]

I actually think we are a DB away from an elite D, not LB.

Our team did very well with sacks last year, one of the best teams. It was just hard to see because they were distributed to everyone. No other team has 6-7 guys grabbing 3-5 sacks. Its always 1 guy getting 15 sacks. Not us.

I think Acho and OBS will only get better and we have a beast D line.


Our biggest holes were Rookie PP and horrible Jefferson. Marshall helped ALOT. PP got better near the end of the year, Jefferson got worse.

If we were to replace Jefferson with Stephon Gilmore + the addition of Toler + grabbing Omar Bolden...Damn. Thatd be an elite defense.

 

[Goldfield]

I would think improving the weak spots would improve the team more. If the D is solid fix the oline.

 

[Southpaw]

Don't want either one. Reiff is weak, stumpy arms and no footwork. Ingram was a good player on a great team and another stumpy player. Both are 2nd rounders.

 

[Chopper0080]

While I believe we do need to improve our secondary, my thought has been that we really lack a top outside pass rusher to keep teams from pinching in on Dockett and Campbell. Acho is a good player and hopefully Schofield develops, but we lack a true outside pressure player that teams have to account for. I think Melvin Ingram is that guy which is why I want him to be the pick at #13.

 

[JAB]

While I believe we do need to improve our secondary, my thought has been that we really lack a top outside pass rusher to keep teams from pinching in on Dockett and Campbell. Acho is a good player and hopefully Schofield develops, but we lack a true outside pressure player that teams have to account for. I think Melvin Ingram is that guy which is why I want him to be the pick at #13.

To be honest I don't know anything about Melvin Ingram but I completely agree with with you that an outside pass rusher would take pressure off of Campbell and Dockett and really make our defense scary. If Ingram is this guy I'm definitely all for it.

 

[JeffGollin]

1. I think the crux of any predraft conversations about #13 will center on: "How will this guy impact our football team?" In other words: "What will our team look like with this guy in there?" The guy they feel will most impact the performance of the football team will be the guy they select.

(It could all boil down to: "Will Reiff at either tackle make the offense better overall than Ingram will make our pass rush more ferocious")?

Or "Will Floyd make our passing attack more explosive than Reiff will improve our overall offense or Ingram would add to the explosiveness of our pass rush")?

Or - if we don't think anyone available at #13 will impact the team anymore than a bunch of guys figuring to be around at #18 - say #23 - we could try to trade down.

2. But probably not for a second round draft pick - for example, if we trade down with SD to #18, we pick up 250 Value Points (according to the now obsolete chart). A 2nd round pick (at about #50) would be valued somewhere around 450 points.

We could make the deal work in return for a 3rd and 4th rounder. Or (as someone on another thread pointed out) we could swap our 1st and 3rd picks for the other team's 1st and 2nd picks and make it come out point-wise (which would narrow the issue to: "Do we gain enough by drafting at #50 instead of #80 than we'd lose by dropping from #13 to #18).

Or maybe we could uncharacteristically successfully drive a hard bargain for the 2nd-rounder. (Lotsa luck)!

 

[MadCardDisease]

I don't know how you can say the Cards would become an elite defense after adding one rookie.

Before they become an elite defense they need to become a good defense for an entire season. I think the Cardinals are still quite far away from having an elite defense which I would classify as a top 5 defense.

 

[Totally_Red]

I don't know how you can say the Cards would become an elite defense after adding one rookie.

Before they become an elite defense they need to become a good defense for an entire season. I think the Cardinals are still quite far away from having an elite defense which I would classify as a top 5 defense.

Agreed! The critical question is does Melvin Ingram improve the defense more than Riley Reiff, David DeCastro or Michael Floyd improves the offense?

 

[JeffGollin]

Agreed! The critical question is does Melvin Ingram improve the defense more than Riley Reiff, David DeCastro or Michael Floyd improves the offense?

That's a Bingo!

 

[Duckjake]

I don't know how you can say the Cards would become an elite defense after adding one rookie.

Before they become an elite defense they need to become a good defense for an entire season. I think the Cardinals are still quite far away from having an elite defense which I would classify as a top 5 defense.

It's really hard to tell. The last 8 games of the season the Cards gave up an average of 165 yards per game passing. That would have ranked them #1 in the league in pass defense.

On the other hand the QBs they faced were Vick, Alex Smith twice, Sam Bradford, Romo, Seneca Wallace, Andy Dalton and Tavaris Jackson and they gave up 150 yards or more rushing 6 times over the last 9 games.

When you look at this lineup though you can't help but be optimistic about the prospects for having an elite defense:

Acho(23), Dockett, DWilliams(24), Campbell(25), Ingram

Tank Carder or Jerry Franklin, Dwash (25)

Toler(27), Wilson, Rhodes, PP(21) and William Gay in the nickel

And of course our annual injury guy Omar Bolden who we steal with our extra 6th round pick and recovers to join with PP21 and Toler to make a formidable secondary in 2013.

 

[PaulW]

In order to finish the offense, I would like to take Floyd 13th (if available) and trade up into the 2nd round and get OT Bobbie Massie or stay at 80 and get OT Brandon Mosely.