Coro: Steve Nash's career with the Phoenix Suns nears its end

slinslin

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The only thing that upsets me about Nash leaving is the Raptors talk of him becoming their GM later.

Steve Nash should be in our front office when he retires along with Grant Hill. Steve Nash - as Lon Babby and Grant Hill as Lance Blanks or future Suns coach which would be regrettable since he would get fired sooner than later.
 

hcsilla

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No, thanks.

Toronto can and should keep Calderon and their mid 1st rounder, 10 mil. in cap space is more valuable than that. I highly doubt that Calderon as an expiring contract would net us an asset at the trade deadline unless we take bad contracts as well which I don't think that we should.
 

slinslin

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We should, the free agent years in 2013, 2014 and whatever are not going to be better.

Leftovers and restricted free agents will result in lots of bad contracts given out. So I'd think it is better to take on some bad deals via trade and gather cheap assets like talents or draft picks in return.
 

hcsilla

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Generally speaking I have no problems with swallowing bad contracts if it nets a real asset.

Since Calderon as a player and a mid 1st rounder are not, I would wait for a more desirable opportunity to use our cap space.
 

slinslin

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Toronto's pick definitely is an asset. Even if they make the playoffs it should be between 16-20 and if Nash breaks down which is possible they could be right in the lottery.
 

Joe Mama

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No, thanks.

Toronto can and should keep Calderon and their mid 1st rounder, 10 mil. in cap space is more valuable than that. I highly doubt that Calderon as an expiring contract would net us an asset at the trade deadline unless we take bad contracts as well which I don't think that we should.

this.

How much do you think Calderon is really worth per season right now? $5 million? So we are going to pay $5 million ($10 million this season - $5 million actual value) and lose half of our cap space for a middle of the first-round draft pick and the possibility of trading him as an expiring contract? That doesn't sound like a very good move to me.
 

CardsFan88

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If you don't use the capspace before the season, having it tied up for the season doesn't really matter nearly as much. We just don't want things carrying over to the next season very much. Since this will be a multiyear prospect, it IS ok to even have it carry over for an additional season, even two. But all of this is secondary to creating your own steady supply of expiring contracts every year. So you have to weigh it all. But we have significant capspace given a Nash departure to do both.

One of the best things we could do is fill up our cap space every season, only to have it be discharged before the next season. It's a little complicated but entirely possible.

Making a trade for a pick and expiring deal(s) like Calderon makes sense. You then could trade Calderon for assets and/or pick(s). But this wouldn't eat up all our capspace, as it appears we'll have around 19 million.

We could sign guys at above market deals for 1 year. Cherry pick the ones we want, and move the others for assets or picks at the deadlines. It doesn't even matter if they are good or not. It's an expiring contract.

Some people might say, well if he's looking for a 10-15 million dollar contract, why would he take less? Well if you give him 6-8 for a single season, and that person can attempt to get 10-15 million the next year, it makes sense for us and them if they are looking at only getting 3-5 for this season. Quite a few players will take that chance.

You also might find a guy worth keeping. If you sign 10-12 guys like this to trade over 3-4 year timeframe, I don't see how you can't find 1-2 keepers.

Now it's not entirely easy to do all of this. But it is definitely possible. All it takes is a GM to get some mid level free agents signed, and an owner who doesn't mind spending to the cap and overpaying players on one year deals. Then finding someone who wants to clear capspace for the next year's free agency, or someone who wants to avoid the luxury tax. These things are relatively easy. People do respond to more money. Teams do want expiring contracts. It's a flaw in the system, and one that should be exploited.

Expiring contracts whether the player is good or dog excrement are highly sought after. If they are around 6-8 million, that helps teams either avoid luxury tax or clear space for free agency. We're a few years out, we just need to make sure we don't take on long term contracts on the backside. (even then 4-5 year contracts are the max there is...thus most won't be that long as most by the time someone wants to trade them will have 1-3 years left). All of this fits within a rebuilding timeframe.

Some teams don't want 10 million coming off this year and 10 million coming off next year. They'd rather have 20 coming off at once. If we sign a few guys we could make the numbers work for whatever that team wanted to do.

The key thing is finding deals to acquire assets using your cap space as the main asset you're trading away. Seeing how we have no need to use our capspace to keep a team together, we could do this for a few years in a row and rack up young talent and draft picks. With Nash, we can do a two-fer. Without Nash it can still be done. With our own expiring contracts from guys we could sign this year, it can also be done. Then rinse and repeat with the last one. At some point even Warrick's, Childress's, and Frye's contracts become expiring and an asset.

But overall it doesn't matter if each and every year we use up our capspace, if that amount is gone afterwards. Hell even if we took on an additional year, that's ok if we get a good pick/asset in return. We have enough space to take on a contract, and still could sign others and trade them away. In later years we have our own to do the same. Meanwhile our young talent is on rookie contracts.

Do this until we hit on a couple of picks and/or get a marquee free agent. If done right we could pick up at least an additional 1st round pick a year, even more. Also we could pick up a couple of young sort-of talented players. Plus we could keep long term cap space flexibility to use it when we need to as every year a significant portion comes off, and within two years, maybe even 30-40 million.

In essence use Nash and capspace to net picks/talent.
Use expiring contracts to net picks/talent....and keep refilling this tradeable option every season by using capspace to sign mid level free agents to above market deals.

In a couple of seasons warrick's contract comes off. Then frye's and childress's. Which could allow us to have these picks under contract, and a whole lot of capspace to go after free agents. We really should be finding ways to work the system for '15-16 or thereabouts timeframe mindset of switching gears. Until then rack up as much young draft picks, and young talent under rookie contracts as possible...by taking on contracts with an additional year, or if the deal is sweet enough two years.

Then swing for the fences with your young talent and free agent cap space.

There's no reason to have 10 million in cap space during any season that can't be used since FA's are already signed. If you want to give teams cap relief, you need to have contracts to trade AND have cap space to absorb the bigger amount. The more you can send outward, the more you can accept back, the more they can clear, the more you can ask for in return.
 

Covert Rain

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If you don't use the capspace before the season.................

Seriously brother.....shorter posts.....holy crap....I don't have that much time to read a novel. ;) You make some valid points.
 

MakeItNashty

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If you don't use the capspace before the season, having it tied up for the season doesn't really matter nearly as much. We just don't want things carrying over to the next season very much. Since this will be a multiyear prospect, it IS ok to even have it carry over for an additional season, even two. But all of this is secondary to creating your own steady supply of expiring contracts every year. So you have to weigh it all. But we have significant capspace given a Nash departure to do both.

One of the best things we could do is fill up our cap space every season, only to have it be discharged before the next season. It's a little complicated but entirely possible.

Making a trade for a pick and expiring deal(s) like Calderon makes sense. You then could trade Calderon for assets and/or pick(s). But this wouldn't eat up all our capspace, as it appears we'll have around 19 million.

We could sign guys at above market deals for 1 year. Cherry pick the ones we want, and move the others for assets or picks at the deadlines. It doesn't even matter if they are good or not. It's an expiring contract.

Some people might say, well if he's looking for a 10-15 million dollar contract, why would he take less? Well if you give him 6-8 for a single season, and that person can attempt to get 10-15 million the next year, it makes sense for us and them if they are looking at only getting 3-5 for this season. Quite a few players will take that chance.

You also might find a guy worth keeping. If you sign 10-12 guys like this to trade over 3-4 year timeframe, I don't see how you can't find 1-2 keepers.

Now it's not entirely easy to do all of this. But it is definitely possible. All it takes is a GM to get some mid level free agents signed, and an owner who doesn't mind spending to the cap and overpaying players on one year deals. Then finding someone who wants to clear capspace for the next year's free agency, or someone who wants to avoid the luxury tax. These things are relatively easy. People do respond to more money. Teams do want expiring contracts. It's a flaw in the system, and one that should be exploited.

Expiring contracts whether the player is good or dog excrement are highly sought after. If they are around 6-8 million, that helps teams either avoid luxury tax or clear space for free agency. We're a few years out, we just need to make sure we don't take on long term contracts on the backside. (even then 4-5 year contracts are the max there is...thus most won't be that long as most by the time someone wants to trade them will have 1-3 years left). All of this fits within a rebuilding timeframe.

Some teams don't want 10 million coming off this year and 10 million coming off next year. They'd rather have 20 coming off at once. If we sign a few guys we could make the numbers work for whatever that team wanted to do.

The key thing is finding deals to acquire assets using your cap space as the main asset you're trading away. Seeing how we have no need to use our capspace to keep a team together, we could do this for a few years in a row and rack up young talent and draft picks. With Nash, we can do a two-fer. Without Nash it can still be done. With our own expiring contracts from guys we could sign this year, it can also be done. Then rinse and repeat with the last one. At some point even Warrick's, Childress's, and Frye's contracts become expiring and an asset.

But overall it doesn't matter if each and every year we use up our capspace, if that amount is gone afterwards. Hell even if we took on an additional year, that's ok if we get a good pick/asset in return. We have enough space to take on a contract, and still could sign others and trade them away. In later years we have our own to do the same. Meanwhile our young talent is on rookie contracts.

Do this until we hit on a couple of picks and/or get a marquee free agent. If done right we could pick up at least an additional 1st round pick a year, even more. Also we could pick up a couple of young sort-of talented players. Plus we could keep long term cap space flexibility to use it when we need to as every year a significant portion comes off, and within two years, maybe even 30-40 million.

In essence use Nash and capspace to net picks/talent.
Use expiring contracts to net picks/talent....and keep refilling this tradeable option every season by using capspace to sign mid level free agents to above market deals.

In a couple of seasons warrick's contract comes off. Then frye's and childress's. Which could allow us to have these picks under contract, and a whole lot of capspace to go after free agents. We really should be finding ways to work the system for '15-16 or thereabouts timeframe mindset of switching gears. Until then rack up as much young draft picks, and young talent under rookie contracts as possible...by taking on contracts with an additional year, or if the deal is sweet enough two years.

Then swing for the fences with your young talent and free agent cap space.

There's no reason to have 10 million in cap space during any season that can't be used since FA's are already signed. If you want to give teams cap relief, you need to have contracts to trade AND have cap space to absorb the bigger amount. The more you can send outward, the more you can accept back, the more they can clear, the more you can ask for in return.
Where can I get the Cliff Notes for this post?

:D

Jk
 

Mainstreet

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CardsFan88 lost be at hello. :D

It looks like he makes some valid points scanning it.
 

JS22

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Reports are that the Suns have offered Nash 12 million over 2 years. (6 million per year.)

If that is true - WOW. What an insult. Why not just agree to part ways and wish him the best? Offering 12 million over 2 years doesn't send a positive message to Nash, the fans, or potential free agents.

Offering that to say "Hey, we tried" is backwards logic. All you're doing is making your franchise and ownership look pathetic. I really hope the report isn't true. If so? Man. That's awful.
 

95pro

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Reports are that the Suns have offered Nash 12 million over 2 years. (6 million per year.)

If that is true - WOW. What an insult. Why not just agree to part ways and wish him the best? Offering 12 million over 2 years doesn't send a positive message to Nash, the fans, or potential free agents.

Offering that to say "Hey, we tried" is backwards logic. All you're doing is making your franchise and ownership look pathetic. I really hope the report isn't true. If so? Man. That's awful.

if tured, that is pretty sad but in the long run it's for the best.
but like you said, as far as the suns rep goes, it doesnt reflect well on them.

this is worse than the JJ situation, in that this isnt even a lowball offer, it's way more pathetic than that.
 

MakeItNashty

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I wish the Suns would have just not offered Nash anything at all and say their farewells instead of dissing him by making such a cheap offer.
 

Cheesebeef

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Reports are that the Suns have offered Nash 12 million over 2 years. (6 million per year.)

If that is true - WOW. What an insult. Why not just agree to part ways and wish him the best? Offering 12 million over 2 years doesn't send a positive message to Nash, the fans, or potential free agents.

Offering that to say "Hey, we tried" is backwards logic. All you're doing is making your franchise and ownership look pathetic. I really hope the report isn't true. If so? Man. That's awful.

here's my biggest issue with that offer. The Suns HAD to know he wouldn't take that offer, just as they had to know Amare wouldn't take the non-guaranteed offer and yet they STILL didn't move them to try and accumulate future assets even though they knew there was probably no shot in hell that either guy would be a Sun the following year.
 

JS22

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My biggest issue with the offer is how pathetic it makes the FO / ownership look. It's an insulting offer to someone who has been the face of your franchise for so many years. All it does is send a message to everyone (especially potential FA targets) that you're an awful franchise.
 

Mainstreet

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here's my biggest issue with that offer. The Suns HAD to know he wouldn't take that offer, just as they had to know Amare wouldn't take the non-guaranteed offer and yet they STILL didn't move them to try and accumulate future assets even though they knew there was probably no shot in hell that either guy would be a Sun the following year.

Agreed. A good GM does not let assets walk for nothing.
 

leclerc

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Can't wait till the day we get a new owner. This is embarrassing.
 

slinslin

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The Suns offer is reasonable it's just that those other teams are making idiotic offers.

The Suns and Nash had to know they could not offer more than that because otherwise they would have too little money for other players.
 

slinslin

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Also the Suns did not trade Nash because Nash did not want to be traded and the little reward they could have gotten was probably not worth it to them to send Nash somewhere else against his wish.
 

carey

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The Suns offer is reasonable it's just that those other teams are making idiotic offers.

The Suns and Nash had to know they could not offer more than that because otherwise they would have too little money for other players.

Doh, we agree again. Though I think he could possibly live up to a $10M deal next year. He does keep himself in remarkable shape. Monetarily he is worth a whole lot of $ for the Raptors though. Any clue how many Nash Toronto jerseys they are going to sell? It's gonna be ridic.
 

ASUCHRIS

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The Suns offer is reasonable

6 million per year for an all star caliber player, and a top 8 point guard?

Maybe 5 years ago.

If you're just going to insult him, don't make an offer at all. What a bunch of morons.
 

leclerc

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Anyone think they're gonna get something for him, or just free up money to throw away on mediocre role players in their thirties? At least get us a first rounder or someone with obvious and proven talent on a rookie contract. Come on you clowns.

And... Go Suns!
 

Chaplin

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The offer could be contingent on them getting something else. I can't imagine they made that offer straight up--there has to be some incentives tied to it, whether it be with the contract or other acquisitions or both.
 

Cheesebeef

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The offer could be contingent on them getting something else. I can't imagine they made that offer straight up--there has to be some incentives tied to it, whether it be with the contract or other acquisitions or both.

i think you're giving this FO too much credit here.
 

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