Coro and Elhassan explain why Dragic is demanding a trade and how this affects the pr

[sunsfan88]

This a must listen podcast. If you want to know anything at all about why all this happened, I highly recommend you listen to it. It may seem long but I guarantee you won't find it boring once you start listening to it.

Here's a link to it, you don't have to download it, you can listen to it by clicking the play icon which is after the download link:

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2...t-2-18-15-goran-dragic-the-trade-deadline-and

Here are some of the observations I made throughout it that I'll summarize to my discretion but again, I still think you would be a fool to just take my word and not listen to it yourself:

- This isn't something that just happened over night. Coro says that Dragic had been bothered about having to play the wing position and not getting the ball like he used to. They said that the biggest difference and hardest adjustment for Goran has been that he’s forced to get the ball in catch and shoot situations as opposed to how him and Bledsoe both had it last year.

- Goran also hated how he had to guard other wing players on defense because they typically always had size advantage on him.

- Coro says Dragic is one of the nicest athletes he's ever known in his life and that the fact that he’s coming out and saying this means that it really must have bothered him that much.

- Coro says that he asked Dragic privately if trading IT would mean he would come back and Coro said that Dragic danced around the question because Coro said if Goran actually answered the question, then he would probably say that yes he’s fine with him and Bledsoe but Goran isn’t the type to throw a teammate under the bus so he wouldn’t admit it.

- Coro says that reason Dragic would still want out even if IT is traded is because he doesn’t trust the FO to screw him over again and sign or trade for another PG again even after trading IT. And both Dave King and Amin agreed with this as well.

- He also says that IT wants to start and that he’s been wanting to start since the beginning. And that IT still wants to start and that he is actually not happy with his role. IT was only happy with coming off the bench if they were winning and a sure lock playoff team and right now Suns have lost 7 of past 10 games so he isn’t happy.

- He says Dragic is not only unhappy one. Gerald Green, Miles Plumlee, Marcus Morris, PJ Tucker

- Coro also blased the Suns drafting Tyler Ennis. Basically echoed my feelings when they made the deal at draft time.

- Even if Dragic gets traded, they think that Goodwin, Ennis, Warren etc will likely not be getting much additional playing time if at all.

- They think Suns will start Gerald Green when Goran gets traded.

- Amin says people (including the Suns) are underestimating the role that Frye played in terms of playing on the court AND that he had a strong voice in the locker room in keeping everyone together.

- Amin says he thinks IT was told that he would be a starter in PHX and that IT did not like how they gave Bledsoe a fat contract after signing him.

- Amin also says that it was obvious that Goran has been unhappy throughout the entire season.

- Dave King says that Hornacek has been super dismissive whenever asked about Goran’s role on the team throughout all season long.

- Both Amin, Coro and all others all agreed that despite stats showing whatever it does, Dragic was not been used same as last season and that he was taking different shots, different assists, different rebounds and different way in terms of scoring than last season w/o Bledsoe and with Bledsoe.

- Both Amin and Coro said that they think the FO knew that Dragic was unhappy but they thought that since Goran is such a good boy who wouldn’t complain or anything,that he would go along with it and not demand a trade or anything like that. This part was what astonished me the most, it seemed like they were taking advantage of Dragic’s personality.

- Amin says Dragic demanding trade does look good for the Suns in the public eye because other free agents and agents will look and say “Hm if a guy like Goran who bleeds the purple and orange and is such a quiet, nice guy came out and said all this about the Suns, then do I really want to sign with Suns?”.

- Amin says he thinks Dragic is worth top $$ now. He says when other teams look at him they’ll say “Here’s a guy who is capable of being maybe top 5 PG in the NBA and has excellent size and length so that he’s versatile enough to move over to SG in spot minutes if needed. He also says that that cap room going up and the inflation affecting that makes Dragic worth it more. Also says that Dragic was a backup for much of his career so he doesn’t have much wear and tear on him so less chance of him breaking down later in the contract.

- Amin also says that if the Suns never signed IT, Goran wouldn’t have lost trust in the FO and that this problem would have never happened. He goes into better detail, you should really listen (around the 48 min mark).

- Amin again talks about how this is a black hole for Suns in terms of attracting other players. He also says money talks but if a player were to choose between Suns and another team that’s offering max contracts, then player choose another team because of it.

- Also says Suns deserve most of the blame and that he doesn’t blame Dragic for being unhappy. Amin also says that only blame he would place on Goran is questioning why he waited til 2 days before trade deadline to make this demand where as if he said it earlier then Suns may have been able to accommodate him better.

- Amin also has a message for the fans: “I just want to tell the fans that I hope they realize this was never going to be easy ever since they added the 3rd point guard. This was always going to be a difficult situation regardless of how many games they won in a row at one point or the other.”

- Dave King says that he thinks Hornacek didn't realize that nobody (not just Dragic) bought into his 3 pg system and that he didn't force anything to change. He says if he knew Goran was gonna lash out like this, he probably would have made a conscious effort to give Goran the ball more especially since their on a losing streak so to try something different at least.

This is a great listen; you’d be doing yourself a huge disservice if you just read my notes and didn't listen to the podcast itself. There’s so much more than I mentioned on here. I don’t even typically like listening to podcasts because I find them boring and long but this one is absolutely worth it.

Its long but its absolutely worth it if you want to know how this entire fiasco came to be including info from people who are extremely close to the team. Amin is an ex Suns FO employee and if you think anyone here knows more about the Suns than Paul Coro, then your kidding yourselves.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I don't blame Dragic for not liking his role on the team and I understand that he isn't really a guy who likes to speak up to get things to change, but this is where the expression "nice guys finish last" comes from. If you don't like how something is going or how you are being utilized you need to not only say something, but actually make yourself heard. I don't doubt that he in some way or another was letting people know throughout the season that he wasn't happy, but if he would have given the team an ultimatum earlier in the season, or even at the very beginning of the all-star break things might have been different.

I'm also not a fan of the "there's nothing they can do to change my mind now" BS either. Management makes mistakes anywhere you go and sometimes one of those mistakes is not listening to their employees, but management can change if given the opportunity and I feel like they would do a much better job of accommodating him in the future.

On the other hand trading IT will only clear the log jam for the rest of this season, but it won't do anything about the log jam that will come along as soon as Ennis and Goodwin are ready for big minutes. Because of this it might very well be in his best interest and the team's best interest to just go ahead and trade. It will likely save us heart break later on with either Dragic or any of the other players that are stuck in that log jam.

 

[SirStefan32]

I'll listen to this after work, and while everything you wrote is probably right, if this is Amin I think it is, he is Goran's buddy and not a fan of the Suns management, so let's be honest and point that out.

 

[Finito]

I'll listen to this after work, and while everything you wrote is probably right, if this is Amin I think it is, he is Goran's buddy and not a fan of the Suns management, so let's be honest and point that out.

No this is on the Suns. How would you feel if your at your company and your the only one that does your particular job then your company brings in another guy that does your job then another guy that does your job and then another guy that does your job oh and keep in mind there's still the same amount of work. I get where Dragic is coming from he feels disrespected and he should feel that way.

The Suns sound like they were caught trying to play all sides of the table sounds like they told Eric hey your the man told Goran hey your gonna be the man and told Thomas hey your gonna be the man

 

[SirStefan32]

No this is on the Suns. How would you feel if your at your company and your the only one that does your particular job then your company brings in another guy that does your job then another guy that does your job and then another guy that does your job oh and keep in mind there's still the same amount of work. I get where Dragic is coming from he feels disrespected and he should feel that way.

The Suns sound like they were caught trying to play all sides of the table sounds like they told Eric hey your the man told Goran hey your gonna be the man and told Thomas hey your gonna be the man

I don't disagree. This IS on the Suns. I was only commenting at Amin's relationship with Dragic and the Suns Front Office. I don't blame Dragic at all, and I hope he goes to another team and becomes a league MVP, destroying the Suns for as long as Bledsoe is on the roster and McD is the GM.
I am 100% team Dragic on this one.

 

[JCSunsfan]

No this is on the Suns. How would you feel if your at your company and your the only one that does your particular job then your company brings in another guy that does your job then another guy that does your job and then another guy that does your job oh and keep in mind there's still the same amount of work. I get where Dragic is coming from he feels disrespected and he should feel that way.



The Suns sound like they were caught trying to play all sides of the table sounds like they told Eric hey your the man told Goran hey your gonna be the man and told Thomas hey your gonna be the man

The Suns job is to build the best team possible, not coddle players. With Dragic running the show without Bldsoe over the last two years the team is way below .500. With Bledsoe and Goran together they are significantly above .500. So while Gorans individual numbers were good with Bledsoe out, he can only carry this team to mediocrity.

from what he said, this is not so much about IT as it is about Bledsoe, and if he is ticked because his brother is not getting minutes, I have no use for him whatsoever.

In any business, while promises are made to individual employees, it is always understood that the good of the business is still the primary goal and everything else is subject to that. The goal is to win a championship and build for that. If Goran's agenda is not wins, he needs to go. Period. BTW, the best way to make money in the right kind of business, is to contribute in the best way you can to its success.

Goran is a good combo guard. He is not a good pure pg. They don't call him a one man fast break because of his distribution skills. As the primary ball handler he is a good scorer, a poor defender, and a mediocre distributor. He plays his heart out. There is a reason the Suns brass see him as the 2 in this system. You could argue that his a better pg than Bledsoe if you want, but you cannot argue that he is a good true pg.

I want his butt (and his brother's) out of here TODAY and I will boo him every chance I get.

 

[t0rchy]

Except the last Tournament, Goran has ALWAYS been a SG and 6th Man as well on the Slovenian National Team, even if he was the best Guard on the team. It was all because of their system and game plan and he never complained at all. At least not in public.

There are a lot of Rookie mistakes made by Hornaceck and McD for sure. But still, the way he is kicking the Suns ass is still very disappointing to me.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

No this is on the Suns. How would you feel if your at your company and your the only one that does your particular job then your company brings in another guy that does your job then another guy that does your job and then another guy that does your job oh and keep in mind there's still the same amount of work. I get where Dragic is coming from he feels disrespected and he should feel that way.

The Suns sound like they were caught trying to play all sides of the table sounds like they told Eric hey your the man told Goran hey your gonna be the man and told Thomas hey your gonna be the man

Here's a hypothetical conversation that may, or may not have taken place:

Hey coach, why is the team bringing in more players at my position.

Well, xxxx, to be honest, we feel that moving you around and playing you in different positions will enhance our offense.

But coach, you know I really don't like doing all of those other things...I have my way in the offense that I think I work best.

Son, listen, I've got a great system and I really feel that if you work with me on this role change, we can really take the next step as a team...and I promise we will work something out with you.

But coach, I'm not going to be happy with this change...

Son, like I said, we feel it's best for the team...and like I said, we want to take care of you and keep you beyond this year.


===============================================

I think it's entirely possible that 2 of these conversations took place in Maricopa County in the last year. Once with Fitz and once with Goran. One player chose to keep his mouth shut, accepted his role and truly trusted the team...the other has indirectly made off-handed comments all season, when playing in other cities...and now has let his emotions completely boil over into the media. I really feel that his reaction the past few days really caught the Suns off-guard...and it's put everyone in a negative light.

Just my 2 cents, which with inflation is only worth about 1 cent now.

 

[Chaz]

I put a lot of blame on Jeff because many games I was thinking why is Dragic not back in the game with 7 min left? Why wait until there is only 2 or 3 minutes left or not at all? If I was the coach I would be leaning heavily on Dragic and pushing him to lead and be more aggressive.

On the other hand now Dragic kind of sounds like a cry baby. Make yourself indispensable and lead. Accept responsibility for your situation and work harder. Don't be passive and then cry about it.

 

[Finito]

Fitzgerald and Dragic are two very very different situations. The Cardinals have done nothing but say we want you back we love this and that oh and Larry did express his unhappiness plenty of times. Are people here really that gullible to think Larrys dad is just speaking for himself. Grow up.

Larry is not happy he's not the number one guy he's not happy with his position but Larry is at the end of his career. He knows at this point no one is going to pay him the money the cardinals are willing to pay him. Goran on the other hand is just entering his prime and looking for his first big contract.

The Suns have already traded him once. This off season they rewarded there all NBA point guard by entering a lengthy contract negotiation with the OTHER point guard, the big free agent signing was ANOTHER point guard, spent a first round pick on ANOTHER point guard.

So if your Goran your looking around going damn these guys must not want me here. Everybody wants me to change and for me to take a back seat. Like it was said in the podcast they say he's the nicest guy in the world and how out of character this is for him. He's saying he doesn't trust them. Clearly what they told Goran is something different than what he's been given.

By the way those guys is Sac had nothing good to say about IT when he left that's not a good sign

 

[JustinD]

Maybe the Suns knew all along that after an All-NBA type season and signing Bled and IT to team friendly deals, that they wouldn't be able to afford (or want to afford) what Dragic would command after 2014-15 ?

 

[marios13]

@masterphomeg and life is a Disney movie from the 50s

 

[Mainstreet]

It's hard to believe Hornacek or the Suns FO did not have a handle on the situation. How can a coach not know which players are unhappy with their roles on the team.

 

[CardsFan88]

It's hard to believe Hornacek or the Suns FO did not have a handle on the situation. How can a coach not know which players are unhappy with their roles on the team.

I think it's a bit different then a simple yes/no answer.

Hornacek came from an era where this sort of thing was much rarer. Plus he played and coached under Jerry Sloan for a long time. I think that's where the disconnect comes from. Hornacek was trying to coach him like Sloan coached him and the rest of the team for all those years, but ultimately it's not about Hornacek but rather the GM that put Hornacek in a situation where you have three starting point guards and a fourth one drafted.

I'm not going to blame McD too much. He took over and is building up assets while at the same time there simply hasn't been much available to us in terms of other spots. We loaded up with point guards because that's what was available, imo. We tried for Lebron, and the Love opportunity we might have wanted was funneled to Lebron.

So McD has also been in a tough spot. He's been adding talent and picks and there just hasn't been what we needed from the other four positions, thus imo we asked Dragic to play off the ball. People idiotically (national media) talk about the 'dropoff', but the simple fact is, we're playing him out of position, and those numbers suggest he's still doing a dang good job at it. So it's not really a drop off, it was a new starting point, out of position, and he was still pretty dang good at it.

You can't blame Dragic too much, because since we got him, we got Bledsoe, Thomas, and drafted Ennis.

I would love for Dragic to stay, and I think Dragic/Bledsoe would work, but the writing is on the wall. We can try to soothe him, we can try to trade IT, even for peanuts, but we put ourselves in a potential bad situation for doing so. Though at the same time, it could be a blessing. Without IT and Dragic, we'd have cap room to outright sign people, and still have assets to trade for someone. The problem is, when will a guy we actually want be available via trade?

Right now the NBA imo is having some serious problems. Lebron is really the only superstar in the NBA, and even he is getting old. The gap between the next 40 or so players seems really small and the gap between them and the next 100 isn't that much more. Good big men are getting harder and harder to find. There's a glut of smaller guys and a dearth of quality big men.

Overall it's just a bad situation. Some of it is foreseeable, but at the same time was McD not supposed to add talent when he could? I also fear $arver might completely screw things up based on this. He should not fire McD or anyone over this, yet he may. That would be a bad move. He shouldn't play hardball with Dragic, but it seems he might. If we lose him for nothing, we lose assets we could of had by trading him. Plus $arver, because of his earlier screwups, probably isn't in a good situation mentally to make the right calls. He stepped in, and screwed up the franchise, he realized this, and stepped back, and now he's being thrust in, and I quite frankly don't trust his acumen to make the right decisions around the whole situation.

So yeah, in a very real sense, this is probably the worst thing that could happen to the Suns (within reason), and hopefully the pressure doesn't screw everything up. McD is still the best front office mind we've had since Jerry, and I don't want him to go. Having too much talent is a good problem to have, it's just that it blew up spectacularly, but again, there weren't really options available to McD. At least that's my opinion.

 

[BC867]

Having too much talent is a good problem to have ...

Even when they all play the same position? Especially the lightest shortest position on the floor? A position that exists to make the rest of the team better?

I don't think that is a good problem to have! Especially when they drafted still another Point Guard. And have to bench their Centers and move 3's to 4 and the 4 to 5 to accommodate it.

Then just read all of the headlines and the posts in these various threads. It sure doesn't sound like too much redundant talent is a good problem to have.

The Suns owner and front office were naive to not anticipate this outcome.

 

[CardsFan88]

Even when they all play the same position? Especially the lightest shortest position on the floor? A position that exists to make the rest of the team better?

I don't think that is a good problem to have! Especially when they drafted still another Point Guard. And have to bench their Centers and move 3's to 4 and the 4 to 5 to accommodate it.

Then just read all of the headlines and the posts in these various threads. It sure doesn't sound like too much redundant talent is a good problem to have.

The Suns owner and front office were naive to not anticipate this outcome.

You obviously skipped over my point. It's cool though.

What I was saying is that it's better to stockpile talent, then let opportunity slip away.

Now that we have that talent, we have to do something with it. That's trade one or two of them. But it's better then having space that is unused.

If McD sits on capspace and lets talent they could secure go by, then he isn't doing his job.

It's not naive to think they couldn't see the bigger picture, and that eventually it would get sorted out. Dragic dropped this bombshell the last few days. Still, even with the bombshell, we will in net have more assets then we did before.

So yes, I stand by it fully.

 

[SirStefan32]

I am with you, BC. Too much REDUNDANT talent is a big problem. As the end of the day, Dragic, Bledsoe, and IT are slight variations of the same player. Dragic is likely the best overall player and a play maker, Bledsoe is easily the best defensive player, and IT is probably the best pure scorer, but the bottom line is that they are three variations of the same player. Several of us saw this coming long before IT, and long before Dragic and Bledsoe stepped on the court together. it is amazing to me that people are now surprised. I chuckled when I read that "Sarver and his management team were surprised by the request." What the hell did they think was going to happen?

This would be like me having a great manager, but bringing in another manager while pushing the current manager to be my business analyst, then bringing in another manager to be the new analyst and push the original manager to be the IT guy, and then being surprised when the two are not happy and one walks out.

 

[CardsFan88]

I am with you, BC. Too much REDUNDANT talent is a big problem. As the end of the day, Dragic, Bledsoe, and IT are slight variations of the same player. Dragic is likely the best overall player and a play maker, Bledsoe is easily the best defensive player, and IT is probably the best pure scorer, but the bottom line is that they are three variations of the same player. Several of us saw this coming long before IT, and long before Dragic and Bledsoe stepped on the court together. it is amazing to me that people are now surprised. I chuckled when I read that "Sarver and his management team were surprised by the request." What the hell did they think was going to happen?

This would be like me having a great manager, but bringing in another manager while pushing the current manager to be my business analyst, then bringing in another manager to be the new analyst and push the original manager to be the IT guy, and then being surprised when the two are not happy and one walks out.

I never said it wouldn't be a problem, and yes it should be a surprise, though not a surprise surprise. Surprise that it came up so quickly, even though they probably knew there were grumblings. I was surprised this popped up so quickly, but I was not surprise as even I thought there would be problems eventually.

The end result is. We still have 2 pg's and now we got a haul from Miami. Net positive.

Didn't want to lose Dragic, but getting 2 1st round picks helps us go after talent or draft talent in the future. Thus signing these guys, and securing talent, was a plus.

This wouldn't of happened if we didn't sign IT. I'd rather have IT and Bledsoe plus Miami haul and cap space, then Dragic and Bledsoe alone with far less cap space.

Of course what is being glossed over is that besides Lebron, who was out there for us to sign? Who was better that we targeted rather then Ennis? Ennis and Bogdanovic both are quality talent. Low 1st round picks are not generally too talented. Both of them are.

We've come a long way in a short time when we go from complaining (rightfully) against the previous morons at GM, and McD who has been stockpiling talent and picks, but lets remember who has been making these deals.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

The things is they signed IT because they were rightfully concerned they were going to lose Bledsoe in RFA. Once they found they could keep Eric (Something that was in serious doubt up until 3 weeks before the season and WELL before IT was signed) they looked at is as collecting assets that they could later flip.

The only foil in the plan is that they didnt expect this kind of acrimony before the deadline could get here. Which they should have with IT's history and sounds like they dismissed the possibility with Dragic.

Ugh. The trade return could have been worse as at first I thought it was only the Dragic trade and I like Knight and Thornton but holy hell they f'ed this up.

I dont fault the logic at the time but in hindsight.....Geez

 

[sunsfan88]

I am with you, BC. Too much REDUNDANT talent is a big problem. As the end of the day, Dragic, Bledsoe, and IT are slight variations of the same player. Dragic is likely the best overall player and a play maker, Bledsoe is easily the best defensive player, and IT is probably the best pure scorer, but the bottom line is that they are three variations of the same player. Several of us saw this coming long before IT, and long before Dragic and Bledsoe stepped on the court together. it is amazing to me that people are now surprised. I chuckled when I read that "Sarver and his management team were surprised by the request." What the hell did they think was going to happen?

This would be like me having a great manager, but bringing in another manager while pushing the current manager to be my business analyst, then bringing in another manager to be the new analyst and push the original manager to be the IT guy, and then being surprised when the two are not happy and one walks out.

Would you say Brandon Knight is also a slight variation of that trio?

 

[SirStefan32]

Would you say Brandon Knight is also a slight variation of that trio?

I haven't watched him enough to speak with certainty, but from what I have seen, yes. He does appear to be another variation of a combo guard. I'd argue he is better than IT, worse than Dragic, but intriguing as he is a better defender and a decent shooter, so maybe he's a better match for Bledsoe?

I think it was a mistake to trade for him at all, let alone lose the Lakers' pick.

 

[sunsfan88]

I haven't watched him enough to speak with certainty, but from what I have seen, yes. He does appear to be another variation of a combo guard. I'd argue he is better than IT, worse than Dragic, but intriguing as he is a better defender and a decent shooter, so maybe he's a better match for Bledsoe?

I think it was a mistake to trade for him at all, let alone lose the Lakers' pick.

According to Gambo, Knight wants to be PG.

John Gambadoro ‏@Gambo987
@briesop He was bummed when he found out about the deal. He is a combo guard but he wants to be a point.

John Gambadoro @Gambo987
Knight doesn't love playing the combo guard, he prefers playing point guard

John Gambadoro @Gambo987
Knight was the man in Milwaukee so he was bummed to hear about trade. He will play the 2 in Phx with Bledsoe but move to PG when EB goes out

 

[Phrazbit]

Well, seeing as Gambo has had zero insider info the last few days I will take that with a mountain of salt.

However, I would expect that he is not thrilled about the trade mostly because he is going from an almost certain playoff team to ones who hopes are dubious.

 

[SirStefan32]

According to Gambo, Knight wants to be PG.

Heh! Why am I not surprised?! Bad move, I think, BUT it is easier to pull this off (keeping players happy) with two combo guards than three, so propr to them for at least getting rid of IT.

I guess I'll need to suffer through a couple of games and watch this kid play. From what I am reading, he is a Bledsoe clone (better shooter, even worse distributor, at least as much of a ball hog as Bled) and I can't see how this can turn out well.

 

[slinslin]

Well, seeing as Gambo has had zero insider info the last few days I will take that with a mountain of salt.

However, I would expect that he is not thrilled about the trade mostly because he is going from an almost certain playoff team to ones who hopes are dubious.

He is getting text messages from Jared Dudley.