Cardinals Seahawks: The everything wrong with Kyler thread

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The All 22 is out for the game and I have some time this week. Not a good combination.

It will take me some time to get through so I'll add to the thread as and when.

Just watching the first 2 drives the main issues are very obvious. Kyler give no time for plays to develop and only has 1 read. Even when under no pressure he's throwing the checkdown option immediately.

Let's start with this play. Because it's illustrative of the problems.

This is the 2nd drive of the game. Rondale Moore is lined up outside, with AJ Green inside at the top and Trey McBride is inline next to Beechum. Moore motions and the slot CB goes with him. Leaving Green 1 vs 1.

But McBride is running an outside route so Kyler should know pre snap that there is a high likelihood that he has 2 vs 1 at the top of the screen. He doesn't even look that way. He takes the snap and immediately dumps it off the Brown for 6 yards despite zero pressure.

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This is the very next play.

This is what we see from above. The ball really should have been out much sooner to Brown.

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This is the look from behind Kyler. As you can see he pulls the pass because Ertz crosses his eyeline but Brown is already 6 yards behind Ertz and considering where the ball needs to go to lead Brown Ertz isn't a factor. Instead he throws late and he throws high and behind Brown.

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Do I really need to point out what's wrong with this next play? This is a few run plays later. They go up tempo and catch the Seahawks out.

There is 3 vs 1 at the top of the screen with a screen option to AJ Green and Kyler chooses to run it up the middle.

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The next play and a rare example of Kyler taking his time in the pocket but still choosing the worst option.

The best value here is Rondale Moore on the crosser. He has a tonne of space on that side of the field and all the speed. It's highly possible he can take a simple pass to the house here.

Next you have Zach Ertz who is open for a 15 yard gain. Not an easy pass but a pass I would expect Kyler to make last year.

But no, 6 yard checkdown it is.

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Here is the same play from the end zone angle.

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This was 3rd down. We don't kick the FG obviously and the next play on 4th down Kyler throws the ball into the ground with Moore wide open. I'm sure you all remember it. Ending the drive.
 
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This is the next drive. After 2 run plays it's 3rd down and something like 7.

I'm not sure what he's doing here. His shopping list? Thinking about the new COD?

He has multiple options. He has, at the very worst, Moore open in the flat with an outside chance to get 1st down.

He has Hollywood wide open on the go route. And he has AJ green open on a go route. Everyone is open except Ertz and there's the problem. Because Kyler already decided pre snap he was throwing to Ertz. Nobody else exists.

All you have to do to stop Kyler is guess who his favored option will be depending on down and distance.

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I'm going to say at this point I'm 3 drives in and I'm not seeing anything wrong with the play calls or play designs in regards to passing plays. Other than there are things missing that could make life easier to confuse defenses such as motion, route combinations etc.

Our run game is ass. It's predictable both in when we are going to run and where they will go. We run barely anything outside the tackles and we don't have anything like toss plays in there. It's dull, unimaginative and predictable.

But on the passing calls and designs I don't see any issues at all. Lot's of open guys all the time.
 
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This is tough. I've lost the will to live.

2nd half now. 2nd drive. Nothing overly egregious but a prime example of the checkdown issues with Kyler.

On this play McBride is open. Green is open. Brown has 3 yards of separation but it's a tough throw with the safety over the top.

Let's throw to Ertz behind the LOS with only 3 points on the board!

Never even looks to the top of the field and this is the issue. There is only really 1 downfield route on any play. The rest are just distractions to take up defenders.

In this case it's Brown, he doesn't like it so he finds the nearest checkdown.

He doesn't have a huge amount of time here because he gets pressured but I'd argue the 1st read should be McBride looking at what the defense are doing.

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This is the very next play.

This is what we see from above. The ball really should have been out much sooner to Brown.

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This is the look from behind Kyler. As you can see he pulls the pass because Ertz crosses his eyeline but Brown is already 6 yards behind Ertz and considering where the ball needs to go to lead Brown Ertz isn't a factor. Instead he throws late and he throws high and behind Brown.

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You failed to note Kyler’s amateurish throwing technique as well, which led to the high ball, as usual…
 

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thanks for posting all this

my operating theory for the last 12 games or so:

its less about defenses figuring out Kliffs scheme, and more about defenses now having a really good read on "if i show this pre snap, the ball goes to this receiver"
 
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Ugh. I'm starting to not like football.

Were still early in the 2nd. Sadly Seahawks All 22 doesn't show the Stadium clock but I believe were still midway through the 3rd and this is 4th down.

This one is a tale of Kyler's pocket presence.

When you watch it your first instinct will be that Hump got beat like a drum and Kyler had to bail out. But watch again.

Hump is pushing the rusher round the back of Kyler. Any other QB in the league steps up here into the pocket, and it's a huge gaping hole of a pocket in front of him. But Kyler sets of running sideways for no reason and that gives the rusher a free lane to chase him down and he ends up throwing with both feet in the air.

If he just chills and takes one step forward he has Brown open for a 1st down and more and he has Ertz at the bottom of the screen for at least a 1st.

Just no reason at all for him to run here. Completely destroys every chance of converting on 3rd.

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It's so frustrating to see replays game after game after game, and see people open. I never want to be that guy that says Kyler can't read defenses or locks in on the first read too much, but you rarely see these type of missed opportunities from other qb's. Not even going to use Allen or Mahomes, but other decent starting qb's across the leagues don't continually miss the open man, let alone choose the less productive option. No offense to you at all BC, but these threads only make me more dis-illusioned with K1. Love the guy, but he has GOT to get it together and fast!
 
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thanks for posting all this

my operating theory for the last 12 games or so:

its less about defenses figuring out Kliffs scheme, and more about defenses now having a really good read on "if i show this pre snap, the ball goes to this receiver"

It's 100% not defenses "figuring Kliff out". There are guys open all the time. I'm half way through the 3rd quarter and I've seen one play where everyone was covered and Kyler had no options.

There's not even any exotic looks on defense. Not in this Seattle game anyway. They mainly played Cover 1. Man coverage with 1 deep safety.

I keep hearing about teams playing Cover 2 to stop us. I've not seen any of that all year. We throw so much short why would teams waste a 2nd deep safety?
 

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Ugh. I'm starting to not like football.

Were still early in the 2nd. Sadly Seahawks All 22 doesn't show the Stadium clock but I believe were still midway through the 3rd and this is 3rd down.

This one is a tale of Kyler's pocket presence.

When you watch it your first instinct will be that Hump got beat like a drum and Kyler had to bail out. But watch again.

Hump is pushing the rusher round the back of Kyler. Any other QB in the league steps up here into the pocket, and it's a huge gaping hole of a pocket in front of him. But Kyler sets of running sideways for no reason and that gives the rusher a free lane to chase him down and he ends up throwing with both feet in the air.

If he just chills and takes one step forward he has Brown open for a 1st down and more and he has Ertz at the bottom of the screen for at least a 1st.

Just no reason at all for him to run here. Completely destroys every chance of converting on 3rd.

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This was 4th down I think BC. As soon as he threw the ball, I knew it was turnover on downs.
 

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This is the next drive. After 2 run plays it's 3rd down and something like 7.

I'm not sure what he's doing here. His shopping list? Thinking about the new COD?

He has multiple options. He has, at the very worst, Moore open in the flat with an outside chance to get 1st down.

He has Hollywood wide open on the go route. And he has AJ green open on a go route. Everyone is open except Ertz and there's the problem. Because Kyler already decided pre snap he was throwing to Ertz. Nobody else exists.

All you have to do to stop Kyler is guess who his favored option will be depending on down and distance.

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On that one the safety is cheating to Hollywood assuming he's top left(can't see the numbers) so I get why Kyler wouldn't go there. Yes AJ Green broke open deep but at the time it happened is when the pass rusher also broke free and Kyler pulled his eyes down because he was trying to avoid the rush. if he had read the play right earlier he had time to unload it deep to AJ before the pass rush got home but as you said he had locked onto Ertz.

Green definitely breaks free there if the ball is thrown right on his break it's open but Kyler waited a beat and then the pass rush got home.

Has to read that play better
 

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thanks for posting all this

my operating theory for the last 12 games or so:

its less about defenses figuring out Kliffs scheme, and more about defenses now having a really good read on "if i show this pre snap, the ball goes to this receiver"
Wouldn’t that be on the coaches for not pointing that out and making adjustments?
 
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This is late in the 3rd now and this is only the 2nd pass of the game I can honestly say is good. The first for in Q2 and was the pass to Brown where he was pushed out of bounds and dropped it and there was a mini conversation about if it was a catch or not.

He keeps his feet moving in the pocket and shuffles away from pressure (something he does shockingly little. His footwork is terrible).

His first option here is Brown which is actually the easier pass but for some reason chooses the harder throw to Ertz over the LB. But it's a nice pass, and a nice catch for a good gain.

Ertz had 70 yards on 7 catches and he got half of them on this catch.

2 plays after this Kyler fumbles and that's the end of the drive. But that was a cunning plan because it led to our only TD.

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This was 4th down I think BC. As soon as he threw the ball, I knew it was turnover on downs.

Yeah it was a realised as soon as I went to the next play and it was the Seahawks. Changed it.
 
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On that one the safety is cheating to Hollywood assuming he's top left(can't see the numbers) so I get why Kyler wouldn't go there. Yes AJ Green broke open deep but at the time it happened is when the pass rusher also broke free and Kyler pulled his eyes down because he was trying to avoid the rush. if he had read the play right earlier he had time to unload it deep to AJ before the pass rush got home but as you said he had locked onto Ertz.

Green definitely breaks free there if the ball is thrown right on his break it's open but Kyler waited a beat and then the pass rush got home.

Has to read that play better

I think that's generous with the safety. He must be a good 20 yards away. Plenty of space there for Kyler to drop a pass into. He shouldn't really be voiding that route because the safety took a step or we'll never complete a deep pass again.

It's 3rd and long. He knows the defense is going to pin their ears back. He should know he has to make a quick decision here because it's 50/50 that he will have more than 2.5 seconds to get it off.
 

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What’s funny is how often he actually has a clean pocket in these and yet so many people claim that he never had any time to throw
 
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This is the 3rd early in the 4th that was thrown behind Ertz.

It was a nicely designed play. A crossing route with Moore on the wheel to pull the defender out and make space for Ertz. This is an easy 1st down and more. Probably takes this inside the 5 if it's thrown on target.

Instead we go to 4th down and Harlow gets pushed back and Kyler is sacked. Nothing Kyler could do on the 4th down play. But the line kept him clean most of the game.

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And here it is from the EZ angle where you can see how far behind it is. Ertz did well to catch it.

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