Cardinals Seahawks: The everything wrong with Kyler thread

OP
OP
BritCard

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,095
Reaction score
37,230
Location
UK
This is the "They only rushed 3 and got to Kyler" play.

Burn this play. Why is Kyler and the whole O line shifting right vs a 3 man rush?

I didn't notice it at first but it's more clear on the EZ angle. The whole O line is in motion. I thought they were moving because Kyler moved but it's designed that way. You can tell from Hump at the snap.

Why??????

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media



xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
26,731
Reaction score
35,035
Location
Colorado
This is the "They only rushed 3 and got to Kyler" play.

Burn this play. Why is Kyler and the whole O line shifting right vs a 3 man rush?

I didn't notice it at first but it's more clear on the EZ angle. The whole O line is in motion. I thought they were moving because Kyler moved but it's designed that way. You can tell from Hump at the snap.

Why??????

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media



xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
This is just a moving of the pocket but Kyler has no idea how to stay in it. He overruns the pocket and moves right into pressure.
 

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
26,731
Reaction score
35,035
Location
Colorado
I think this highlights the issues.

The offensive scheme isn't horrible. The play calling isn't horrible. Regardless of it's simplicity, there are still players open and opportunities are there.

1 - Kyler is playing horribly and has no answers.

2 - Kliff looks to be incapable of being able to coach Kyler out of his funk.

Kyler just looks to be a coach killer. The Cardinals will of course do everything they feel they can (which will mean firing Kliff, hiring Vance, keeping Keim) to try and fix Kyler and it won't work. Kyler will either continue to struggle and demand a trade in two years, or will continue to struggle, play out his deal, and then retire. Either way, he doesn't seem long for the league unless he turns into some kind of savant in terms of film and progressive passing.

What is funny is that after Vance is hired as the HC moving forward, he is gong to determine the Cardinals need to run the ball more, minimize their 250 million dollar QB, and then they will use a high round draft pick on a RB like @DVontel has predicted.
 
Last edited:

Shane

Current STAR
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
66,058
Reaction score
32,002
Location
Las Vegas
I think this highlights the issues.

The offensive scheme isn't horrible. The play calling isn't horrible. Regardless of it's simplicity, there are still players open and opportunities are there.

1 - Kyler is playing horribly and has no answers.

2 - Kliff looks to be incapable of being able to coach Kyler out of his funk.


Winner winner
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
34,576
Reaction score
30,729
Location
Orange County, CA
This is the look from behind Kyler. As you can see he pulls the pass because Ertz crosses his eyeline but Brown is already 6 yards behind Ertz and considering where the ball needs to go to lead Brown Ertz isn't a factor. Instead he throws late and he throws high and behind Brown.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
He also has a VERY clear throwing lane. Bad play by Murray. I'll wait to hear from the Murraystans on how this was someone else's fault.
 
OP
OP
BritCard

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,095
Reaction score
37,230
Location
UK
I have no idea what Kyler was thinking here.

I really like the play design. Ertz and Brown run parallel routes and then cross at the sticks. Basically a deep rub route.

The ball should be there on time when Ertz breaks out but instead it lands 20 yards away.


xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 

football karma

Happy in the pretense of knowledge
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Posts
14,785
Reaction score
12,973
I think this highlights the issues.

The offensive scheme isn't horrible. The play calling isn't horrible. Regardless of it's simplicity, there are still players open and opportunities are there.

1 - Kyler is playing horribly and has no answers.

2 - Kliff looks to be incapable of being able to coach Kyler out of his funk.
100%

i think Kyler is in his own head wayyyyyyy too deep. I say this because he was making many of these plays the last two years.

i dont know if "turnovers" has been so pounded into his head that he has become too risk averse

maybe this whole two high shell stuff has put an emphasis on the weakest part of Kyler's game: throwing in rhythm / with anticipation
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
34,576
Reaction score
30,729
Location
Orange County, CA
This is the 3rd early in the 4th that was thrown behind Ertz.

It was a nicely designed play. A crossing route with Moore on the wheel to pull the defender out and make space for Ertz. This is an easy 1st down and more. Probably takes this inside the 5 if it's thrown on target.

Instead we go to 4th down and Harlow gets pushed back and Kyler is sacked. Nothing Kyler could do on the 4th down play. But the line kept him clean most of the game.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media


And here it is from the EZ angle where you can see how far behind it is. Ertz did well to catch it.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
Very nice play. Clearly this is a "playing chess" kind of play. The jet action causes the defender who would have defended Ertz to go after the jet action. A decent pass and it's an easy first.
 
OP
OP
BritCard

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,095
Reaction score
37,230
Location
UK
This is just a moving of the pocket but Kyler has no idea how to stay in it. He overruns the pocket and moves right into pressure.

I get that, I just don't see why. We never do this. I don't recall ever seeing it before. Why do it on the edge of our end zone on 3rd down vs 3 rushers? It's making things more complicated than required.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
34,576
Reaction score
30,729
Location
Orange County, CA
I think this highlights the issues.

The offensive scheme isn't horrible. The play calling isn't horrible. Regardless of it's simplicity, there are still players open and opportunities are there.

1 - Kyler is playing horribly and has no answers.

2 - Kliff looks to be incapable of being able to coach Kyler out of his funk.

Kyler just looks to be a coach killer. The Cardinals will of course do everything they feel they can (which will mean firing Kliff, hiring Vance, keeping Keim) to try and fix Kyler and it won't work. Kyler will either continue to struggle and demand a trade in two years, or will continue to struggle, play out his deal, and then retire. Either way, he doesn't seem long for the league unless he turns into some kind of savant in terms of film and progressive passing.

What is funny is that after Vance is hired as the HC moving forward, he is gong to determine the Cardinals need to run the ball more, minimize their 250 million dollar QB, and then they will use a high round draft pick on a RB like @DVontel has predicted.
I've been thinking about this scenario.

What if a team loaded up on big, strong, tough OL and a premium RB, but then mixed in modern passing concepts. Basically a modern version of the 90s Cowboys

Teams aren't built to defend this model.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
34,576
Reaction score
30,729
Location
Orange County, CA
I think this highlights the issues.

The offensive scheme isn't horrible. The play calling isn't horrible. Regardless of it's simplicity, there are still players open and opportunities are there.

1 - Kyler is playing horribly and has no answers.

2 - Kliff looks to be incapable of being able to coach Kyler out of his funk.

Kyler just looks to be a coach killer. The Cardinals will of course do everything they feel they can (which will mean firing Kliff, hiring Vance, keeping Keim) to try and fix Kyler and it won't work. Kyler will either continue to struggle and demand a trade in two years, or will continue to struggle, play out his deal, and then retire. Either way, he doesn't seem long for the league unless he turns into some kind of savant in terms of film and progressive passing.

What is funny is that after Vance is hired as the HC moving forward, he is gong to determine the Cardinals need to run the ball more, minimize their 250 million dollar QB, and then they will use a high round draft pick on a RB like @DVontel has predicted.
Also, this is why I've come to blame Kyler more. We see this type of stuff often, where Murray is the problem. Imagine Warner or Palmer in this offense.
 
OP
OP
BritCard

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,095
Reaction score
37,230
Location
UK
That's pretty much it. The next play Brown gets hurt. Seahawks get the ball back and the game is done.

My takeaways.

Obviously Kyler is playing really, really badly. Josh Rosen bad. If he was a rookie I'd think we drafted a dud.

I can't see any obvious reason for it. By and large he was kept clean. The sacks all came on 3rd and 4th down where the Chicks could pin their ears back and even then there were options that Kyler missed. The play designs are fine, always a bunch of guys open.

The run game is awful. It's not the backs. It's largely the designs and the O line. Where has the creativity gone? I recall in the first year Kliff had some really nicely designed run plays with 2 TE sets or 2 backs. It's really basic inside gap power run game and we just don't have the O line for it. It's really bad.

And even if we get lucky and a RB breaks through the 1st level our receivers can't block for their life and none of the O line can block in space except Hump.

It could be that the run game is so bad it's putting pressure on Kyler in the passing game. But there are massive issues with his feet, his progressions, his pre snap reads and his accuracy so it can't only be that.

And it's having a knock on effect. You can see it more clearly watching the All 22 because you can see everyone, but it's effecting moral. After Kyler misses an easy pass or a guy is open on a 20 yard route and we take the 6 yard checkdown you can see heads dropping.

The receivers know Kyler is playing poorly and it's effecting them.
 
Last edited:

AZ Native

Living is Easy with Eyes Closed
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Posts
15,841
Reaction score
8,033
Location
Cave Creek
Wouldn’t that be on the coaches for not pointing that out and making adjustments?
I'm sure they do. How about Kyler studying the game film and making future corrections himself too? Kyler is in his 4th year. Shouldn't he be making adjustments after studying game film.
 

Shane

Current STAR
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
66,058
Reaction score
32,002
Location
Las Vegas
Yup appreciate it Brit. And irrefutably confirming what half I of us knew already. KYLER IS SUCKING!

Waiting for the few who will not be named to come in here and defend this????
 

Shane

Current STAR
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
66,058
Reaction score
32,002
Location
Las Vegas
I would really like to be in the film room when the offense and coaches are going over the game. How is this stuff approached with Kyler? I betting it’s largely ignored. To keep the golden boy happy.
 

DVontel

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Posts
12,419
Reaction score
21,243
I think this highlights the issues.

The offensive scheme isn't horrible. The play calling isn't horrible. Regardless of it's simplicity, there are still players open and opportunities are there.

1 - Kyler is playing horribly and has no answers.

2 - Kliff looks to be incapable of being able to coach Kyler out of his funk.

Kyler just looks to be a coach killer. The Cardinals will of course do everything they feel they can (which will mean firing Kliff, hiring Vance, keeping Keim) to try and fix Kyler and it won't work. Kyler will either continue to struggle and demand a trade in two years, or will continue to struggle, play out his deal, and then retire. Either way, he doesn't seem long for the league unless he turns into some kind of savant in terms of film and progressive passing.

What is funny is that after Vance is hired as the HC moving forward, he is gong to determine the Cardinals need to run the ball more, minimize their 250 million dollar QB, and then they will use a high round draft pick on a RB like @DVontel has predicted.
Worst fear is Kyler remembering how to play great football again which prolong Keim’s stay here, but that probably doesn’t matter anyway.
 

Shane

Current STAR
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
66,058
Reaction score
32,002
Location
Las Vegas
Worst fear is Kyler remembering how to play great football again which prolong Keim’s stay here, but that probably doesn’t matter anyway.
I totally understand this train of thought….. but come Sundays I just can’t root to lose. Even when I bet against them and can win a decent chunk I’m still loudly proudly rooting to win :/
 

reebokalone2001

Hall of Famer
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Posts
1,143
Reaction score
1,357
Location
Mesa, Arizona
I have no idea what Kyler was thinking here.

I really like the play design. Ertz and Brown run parallel routes and then cross at the sticks. Basically a deep rub route.

The ball should be there on time when Ertz breaks out but instead it lands 20 yards away.


xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
My read on this play is either Kyler or Brown executed the wrong play. In the video, Kyler's ball went out when Brown surpassed the CB. It's clear to me that Kyler's understanding of the play call is Brown breaks free go deep and Ertz running toward the 1st down stick was just a distraction to pull the safety forward. Unfortunately, Brown thought the play was to have Ertz getting to the stick and him running a fake go route to draw the safety's attention. I will say both plays would actually will work with how well Brown and Ertz sold the route, as long as Kyler was on the same page with Brown.
 

Dback Jon

Killer Snail
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
76,215
Reaction score
33,094
Location
Scottsdale
Does Kyler strike you as a "Yes sir. I take that on board and will work on it" kind of guy?

I'm really asking because he doesn't to me.
If he’s not then why did they sign an extension?

Something is clearly mentally wrong with Kyler right now. He should be making plays.
 

DVontel

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Posts
12,419
Reaction score
21,243
I totally understand this train of thought….. but come Sundays I just can’t root to lose. Even when I bet against them and can win a decent chunk I’m still loudly proudly rooting to win :/
I can easily root to lose. I think long term. I don’t want to be in purgatory. That’s worse than being awful. We can talk about Kyler playing like ass & Kliff being clueless all day long, but what does it matter if the king of purgatory is driving the ship?
 
Top