Everything wrong with Kyler vs Seattle Part II - Revenge of the checkdown

AZfaninMN

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Nah, that's moving the goal posts. Just about everyone was curious to see how this offense would run with Colt, to see how big a problem Kyler has been. Now we're getting a loooot of excuses about how this game meant nothing and we have to see another game before we can know anything. Then if Colt does good again, the excuses will come pouring in about how we need and extended run of games, or the rest of the season, to know for sure. It's pretty clear that, with Colt, the offense simply ran smoother. No excuses, no yeah buts, it was simply smoother.

Not pointing the finger at you here, @AZfaninMN, because you've been pretty even keeled on this topic. I just don't agree that we need to wait for Colt to have another good day first. Because the extended logic to that is if our career backup QB does poorly against a really good defense, the Kyler excuses will just start flooding in. And, for my money, we've seen enough to know that Kyler is a big problem.
It did run smoother. Colt forced the rams to move from a zone heavy scheme to press man coverage because of how efficient he was against the zone. I just meant the entire team played well Sunday and I don’t think that was directly because Colt was starting in place of Kyler. Brit had suggested that everyone played better because Kyler wasn’t. For example, opening drive AJ Green made a diving catch back to his left on 4th and 2 to continue the drive. The previous week we saw a ball hit Robbie Anderson between the 8 and 1 hit the ground. I don’t think it mattered who was throwing the ball in those instances. If Colt were to start and have a bad game, but if the team is playing hard and not going through the motions, I think it would be clear the team stands behind colt and not Kyler.
 

daves

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Whether you see it, or believe it, there was an absolute scheme/play calling change. That absolutely contributed to Colt's and the Cards offensive success.
Shanahan was quoted in an article in the Athletic this week, regarding playing the Cardinals with Murray vs McCoy at QB:
They’re still going to run a similar offense with both (QBs), so schematically, you still have to be ready,” 49ers coach Kyle Shanahan said Thursday. “There’s definitely some different skill sets, but we saw both last year so our defense knows, from going against both of them, they’re both a problem and you have to be ready for both.”
He's saying this with regard to the upcoming game, and drawing on his experience playing the Cardinals once with each QB last season. But, what does he know? :shrug:

...dave
 

dreamcastrocks

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Shanahan was quoted in an article in the Athletic this week, regarding playing the Cardinals with Murray vs McCoy at QB:

He's saying this with regard to the upcoming game, and drawing on his experience playing the Cardinals once with each QB last season. But, what does he know? :shrug:

...dave
The scheme and the play calling where changed. No doubt about it.
 

kerouac9

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The scheme and the play calling where changed. No doubt about it.
I doubt it. The scheme that has been installed since July can’t be changed in a week. The play calling is the same because the play CALLER is the same.

You’re going to have to be more specific in your evidence if you want more people to share your certainty.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I doubt it. The scheme that has been installed since July can’t be changed in a week. The play calling is the same because the play CALLER is the same.

You’re going to have to be more specific in your evidence if you want more people to share your certainty.
Wait, so some of you think kliff calls a game exactly the same for McCoy that he does for kyler? If so that’s another indictment of kliff not calling a game to his specific players’ strengths and weaknesses. Or do y’all think kyker and mccoy share the same strengths and weaknesses?
 

kerouac9

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Wait, so some of you think kliff calls a game exactly the same for McCoy that he does for kyler? If so that’s another indictment of kliff not calling a game to his specific players’ strengths and weaknesses. Or do y’all think kyker and mccoy share the same strengths and weaknesses?
I think the philosophy of the scheme is the same across Kliff's tenure with some small tweaks as he gets more experienced at different pieces of the game.

I think the Kliff calls the game differently based on the comfort levels that the individual players express during game planning, but I'm fairly certain that there isn't anything Colt McCoy can do that Kyler can't. If Colt is doing things more effectively than Kyler, he's doing things that Kyler won't.
 

football karma

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I think the Kliff calls the game differently based on the comfort levels that the individual players express during game planning, .........

Kliff has said this explicitly -- he goes with plays that the Qb likes
If Colt is doing things more effectively than Kyler, he's doing things that Kyler won't.

i suspect Colt is less picky in plays
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I think the philosophy of the scheme is the same across Kliff's tenure with some small tweaks as he gets more experienced at different pieces of the game.

I think the Kliff calls the game differently based on the comfort levels that the individual players express during game planning, but I'm fairly certain that there isn't anything Colt McCoy can do that Kyler can't. If Colt is doing things more effectively than Kyler, he's doing things that Kyler won't.
So for instance you think kliff calls the same QB run plays for mccoy?
 

nashman

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KKs offense looked like the same trash we’ve seen all season again tonight! So it turns out McCoy looked good against a putrid Rams team after all. Who cares at this point it’s obvious the offense is trash regardless of the QB trying to makes KKs offense work! Kliff sucks the coaching staff sucks and a lot of the personnel sucks not much to look forward to honestly…
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Those 2% of plays aren’t much to hang your hat on my guy.
Hmm, how many RPOs have we seen mccoy run in two games, my guy? I can’t remember more than one of them. A staple for kyler. This is kinda easy. There also weren’t near the number of sideways blocker-free screens tonight. Something kliff spoon feeds a kyler offense. Those percentages are driving up . . .
 

Dayman

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Somers had an article about Kliff having a different game plan for Colt last week

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Somers had an article about Kliff having a different game plan for Colt last week

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Being able to read a defense isn't a new game plan.

Saying Kliff ran a gameplan that a QB that can read defenses can run doesn't really go in the Kyler win column.
 

BullheadCardFan

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KKs offense looked like the same trash we’ve seen all season again tonight! So it turns out McCoy looked good against a putrid Rams team after all. Who cares at this point it’s obvious the offense is trash regardless of the QB trying to makes KKs offense work! Kliff sucks the coaching staff sucks and a lot of the personnel sucks not much to look forward to honestly…
Definitely a poor job once again by KK

How many first down runs for no yards or a loss?

Too many

The predictable play calling is really hurting the offense since the D knows whats coming

We know what's coming

Time for this guy to go
 

AZCB34

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KKs offense looked like the same trash we’ve seen all season again tonight! So it turns out McCoy looked good against a putrid Rams team after all. Who cares at this point it’s obvious the offense is trash regardless of the QB trying to makes KKs offense work! Kliff sucks the coaching staff sucks and a lot of the personnel sucks not much to look forward to honestly…
But, to this layman’s eyes, Kliff’s offense doesn’t look all that dissimilar to many other offenses around the league. So many of the same plays and concepts but they are just being executed better.

I am not suggesting Kliff isn’t a problem, he is but to suggest his offense is trash suggests many of the current NFL offenses are trash even when successful
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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But, to this layman’s eyes, Kliff’s offense doesn’t look all that dissimilar to many other offenses around the league. So many of the same plays and concepts but they are just being executed better.

I am not suggesting Kliff isn’t a problem, he is but to suggest his offense is trash suggests many of the current NFL offenses are trash even when successful
You really think Kliff’s offense looks anything like Shanahan’s?
 

PJ1

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Having only one starter on your OL and missing your starting TE is devastating. Add to that Moore going down on the first play. Say what you want but he has been pretty good lately. Throw in a refusal by our coach to try anyone but Conner running the ball and the offense was in trouble to start. This is a top D they went against. Held their own in first half even with some bad mistakes. Once Niners went up by multiple scores and our D quit McCoy was under siege and couldn’t get anything done. I didn’t see the offense give up but they were beat down. Our D embarrassed themselves badly and were called out on national television. I have been watching this stuff for decades now and it all runs together. Just the names change.
 

AZCB34

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You really think Kliff’s offense looks anything like Shanahan’s?
Did I specifically say it did?

I love it how a general statement is made not suggesting every offense is the same but suggesting many concepts and plays are similar and the response gets specific to a particular coach and his offensive scheme.

Kliff is a huge problem. Kyler is a huge problem. Keim is a huge problem but to think Shanahan and Kliff have completely different playbooks with absolutely no overlap is something
 

Stout

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KKs offense looked like the same trash we’ve seen all season again tonight! So it turns out McCoy looked good against a putrid Rams team after all. Who cares at this point it’s obvious the offense is trash regardless of the QB trying to makes KKs offense work! Kliff sucks the coaching staff sucks and a lot of the personnel sucks not much to look forward to honestly…
Surprise surprise, excuses. Kliff sucks, the coaching staff sucks, the personnel sucks, etc. How about the starting QB sucks, too? Without good QB play, the team has no chance to win. None.

Now, I doubt KM could have done anything last night either, so not bagging on him there. Just a terrible effort against good opposition.
 

Mainstreet

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The problem starts at the top of the Cardinals organization and trickles down.

What we are seeing are symptoms of the problem.

Minimally, the fix needs to be made at the GM level. Can't do anything about ownership.

If the cause is not addressed at the top, it's like trying to get good fruit from a bad tree.
 

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