Bickley's latest stab at the QB situation

8ndkorner

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Wisenhunt screwed up by proclaiming Matt the starter for next season without competition after Warner's season. Matt didn't help the situation by stating that he deserved it. As a result this thing will not go peacefully and will be a topic of discussion for the next few months. But it is obvious that Warner has friends at the Republic.



Whisenhunt takes risk with Leinart
A head coach can lose a football team in many ways. If he's a puppet for the organization, he will never be trusted. If he plays the wrong people, his judgment will be questioned.

When it comes to the Cardinals' starting quarterback in 2008, let's hope that Ken Whisenhunt isn't saddling up the wrong horse.

In the first move of the off-season, Whisenhunt simply handed the starting job back to quarterback Matt Leinart. He leaned on the tired, illogical justification of a player never losing his job due to injury. Right. And what if the Patriots had given the job back to Drew Bledsoe, whose injury opened the door for Tom Brady?

Yet Whisenhunt also insisted that the best players would play next season. It sounds good and fair, but what exactly does that mean? You can bet that Kurt Warner is beginning to wonder.

"I'm going to show up, and I'm going to be ready to play, and I'm going to convince everybody that I can play, that I give us the best chance to win and that I should be playing," Warner said. "And whatever happens, happens."

But the problem suddenly has become a sticky matter of semantics. How does Whisenhunt determine who is the best player after giving Leinart the job? How does Warner react if it's clear that he's back to playing the role of sage mentor, that he had no chance to prove what he believes, that he indeed is the best player? And exactly what purpose does it serve feeding Leinart's sense of entitlement? What is wrong with having an open competition come training camp?

Whatever the answers, Whisenhunt runs the risk of a divided team and a splintered fan base. For reference, see what the Sam Keller-Rudy Carpenter fiasco did to Arizona State two years ago.

Again, this is not to suggest that Warner deserves the starting job. His fumbling is problematic, just as Leinart's fumbling was problematic in 2006. And if Leinart eventually lives up to the hype, he clearly is the future of the Cardinals.

But Leinart also had a 61.9 quarterback rating when he went down with a shoulder injury, along with four interceptions in five games. Meanwhile, Warner threw 27 touchdown passes and 17 interceptions, very close to the numbers produced by Brett Favre (28 touchdown passes, 15 interceptions).

And here's the biggest thing: No matter what the future holds, the Cardinals should not be willing to take a step back next year just to spoon-feed Leinart. Not when they were so close to making the playoffs in 2007.

"It speaks volumes about Kurt's commitment and his passion to the game of football," Rams wide receiver Torry Holt said. "Every time Kurt steps on the football field, he feels like he's the best quarterback in the National Football League, and he played that way. And he handled himself that way. And the guys responded to him.

"I think going into next year, the Cardinals' organization and coaching staff has a decision to make on who's going to be the starter, either Warner or Leinart. And I think right now, if you ask me, I think Warner gives the Arizona Cardinals the best chance to be successful."

From an opposing player such as Holt, that's a mouthful. Of course, Holt might be biased, having won a Super Bowl with Warner in St. Louis. But he also is the brother of Cardinals safety Terrence Holt, thereby privy to inside information. And the truth is, Warner won over a lot of players in the locker room last season, players who don't want to go backward in 2008, players who might begin to wonder about motives.

Near the end of the season, it was clear that the entire organization was shifting toward Leinart, who brazenly called the Cardinals "my team" during a sideline interview near the end of the season. Think he knew something? And do you think Warner didn't hear about it when the Cardinals' official Web site ran a fan poll for the team's Most Valuable Player, and omitted Warner as a candidate?

In some ways, it would be easier if Whisenhunt simply said that Warner's gunslinging style just didn't fit his offensive vision. But, again, it's not as if Leinart has that much juice in the room. His work habits were questioned at the beginning of last season. And for all the stardust he brings, he wasn't among the team captains named (but Neil Rackers was).

We all know that football is a ruthless, violent business. But this quarterback situation could get really ugly come September, and it already is shaping up to be shabby treatment for a guy who helped save Whisenhunt's hide more than once in 2007. In the end, the head coach better hope that the golden boy is ready to be a star in 2008.

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moklerman

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I'm reminded of the "America's Game" episode featuring the 1969 Jets. The team decided that electing Namath a team captain might be a way to get him to focus and not go out partying before games and take on more responsibility. The show made it seem pretty clear that they didn't think he deserved to be a captain at that point but gave it to him anyway to help him grow up.

I was kind of surprised by it but I guess it makes sense. I don't know if this is the same situation but it does seem similar.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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There's nothing a reporter likes better than a creating a QB controversy. Next year the Cards are going to do what they did early this year. Leinart will start and Warner will come in and run a few series of no huddle, which is what he does best. That puts both players in the best psoition for the team to win. That's what a good HC does. The only way it even becomes an issue is if what happened in Bmore becomes a regular occurrence with Leinart stinking it up and Warner moving the team. I don't think it will be the case and both players will thrive. You limit Warner's gaffes and you still have the team being led by Leinart.It's the best of both worlds.
 

BullheadCardFan

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What is wrong with having an open competition come training camp?

Thats the way it should be .. give them both an equal chance and the best man starts ..

Lets see how hard and dedicated Matt is this offseason ... we already know Warners work ethic ..
 

moklerman

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I don't think it will be the case and both players will thrive. You limit Warner's gaffes and you still have the team being led by Leinart.It's the best of both worlds.
I would be very surprised if a true QB tandem comes to pass. The last time it was successful was in the '50's I think. But even Waterfield and Van Brocklin didn't last. Any true QB worth his salt wants to be "the guy". Leinart won't like splitting time and neither will Warner. Make one of them earn the starting spot and ride him until you can't anymore. Then be thankful for depth.
 
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8ndkorner

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I'm reminded of the "America's Game" episode featuring the 1969 Jets. The team decided that electing Namath a team captain might be a way to get him to focus and not go out partying before games and take on more responsibility. The show made it seem pretty clear that they didn't think he deserved to be a captain at that point but gave it to him anyway to help him grow up.

I was kind of surprised by it but I guess it makes sense. I don't know if this is the same situation but it does seem similar.

Yeah, I want to be clear that I'm not anti ML. But he was handed the keys before this season began and although I'm not in AZ to see things first hand it would appear that he wasn't prepared. Warner fumbles when hit but he really stepped up with the bad hand and all.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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I would be very surprised if a true QB tandem comes to pass. The last time it was successful was in the '50's I think. But even Waterfield and Van Brocklin didn't last. Any true QB worth his salt wants to be "the guy". Leinart won't like splitting time and neither will Warner. Make one of them earn the starting spot and ride him until you can't anymore. Then be thankful for depth.
I agree both QB's want to be the guy.They wouldn't split time evenly. Leinart would still get 80% of the plays. Why not take advantage of all you resources. If it's part of your gameplan every week then there is no controvesry. It's just part of the offense. I think the players would understand that. If they don't, then too bad for them.
 

moklerman

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I'm not anti-ML either but I really question this approach to the situation by Whis(or whoever might be instructing if that's the case). Leinart showed great potential in his first couple of starts but has been steadily regressing ever since. It's one thing to force the young QB into a starting role when there isn't another option but that isn't currently the case for the Cardinals. It just seems like unneeded pressure on Leinart when the team has an opportunity to take advantage of a productive veteran mentoring an inexperienced, unseasoned rookie. Some guys come in, work through a rocky first season and then go on to be really good starters. Many, many more wash out or become backups.
 

moklerman

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Why not take advantage of all you resources. If it's part of your gameplan every week then there is no controvesry.
While I understand your sentiment, I don't think it's realistic. The only reason it worked in '07 at all was because Warner was willing to take whatever he could get. I'm sure both he and Leinart will be professional about whatever happens but I guarentee that neither will endorse splitting time. Leinart hated it last year and I assume Warner would hate it in '08.
 
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8ndkorner

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I'm not anti-ML either but I really question this approach to the situation by Whis(or whoever might be instructing if that's the case). Leinart showed great potential in his first couple of starts but has been steadily regressing ever since. It's one thing to force the young QB into a starting role when there isn't another option but that isn't currently the case for the Cardinals. It just seems like unneeded pressure on Leinart when the team has an opportunity to take advantage of a productive veteran mentoring an inexperienced, unseasoned rookie. Some guys come in, work through a rocky first season and then go on to be really good starters. Many, many more wash out or become backups.

I think you nailed it. The organization, players, press and fans were happy to have a QOF and a backup QB with a super bowl ring as a mentor. This has changed this season and you can't deny it. If a secret poll were taken by the offense, which QB do you feel would get the nod?
 

Cbus cardsfan

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I think you nailed it. The organization, players, press and fans were happy to have a QOF and a backup QB with a super bowl ring as a mentor. This has changed this season and you can't deny it. If a secret poll were taken by the offense, which QB do you feel would get the nod?
This will be Leinart's 3rd year around the team. I think he'd have more support than you think. I think both guys are well-liked.
 

moklerman

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If a secret poll were taken by the offense, which QB do you feel would get the nod?
I think it would be pretty tough for any QB to sit on the bench or be injured all year and win a poll like that. Guys are generally going to have a comradary with the one they've been "going to war" with, so to speak.

I think in general, Warner is respected and liked and had to garner some brownie points with his professionalism and performance but playing with that elbow had to endear him to many of his teammates. Leinart has made some questionable comments recently that have probably been blown out of proportion by the media/fans but I don't think that they would sit well with the players either. Nothing to alienate him or lose their support, but I would bet a few eyebrows were raised.

I have a hard enough time reading one player's mind so guessing what the whole team would vote in a secret poll is beyond me.
 

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This whole debate in my opinion is a big deal about nothing. Sports are one of the very few occupations that is a meritocracy. Almost every other occupation we hear about the good old boys club where it is who you know not what you know that gets you the opportunities. Go ahead lable Leinart as the starter. If he does not get the job done he will be benched by Whiz. The player that earns the job will eventually rise to the top. Bidwill may cost some wins because he might resist the obvious move if Leinart stinks it up but eventually Warner will get the job back.

I have STRONG doubts about Leinart. I have seen too many pretty boy big name college QBs from big name schools who are not willing to put in the work because they did not have to work at it in college. The NFL is not college football and the streets are littered with big name college stars who flopped in the NFL. It seems that in particular the Heisman Trophy is frequently given to guys who are not pro players. The best Cardinals QBs I saw was second round Lomax form Portland ST. and undrafted Hart from Southern Illinois
 

Redheart

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It used to be that the rookie QB would watch, study, and practise for serveral years after being drafted. Most HOF QB's have been "raised" this way.

It is a relatively recent tendency to draft your rookie QB and push him into service; for the Cardinals, Jake was an example that was rushed to duty, mostly because what we had as a starter was other team's washed-up back up.

Rushing a QB in can be dangerous; Ryan Leaf comes to mind...maybe Alex Smith...this might be worth a little research and a whole seperate thread.

I can safely say that Warner is niether washed-up nor posting back-up numbers; yet he has to show that his not too old a dog to learn and improve on managing the game and protecting the ball.

Strange, but even though Matt wants to start, he has not earned it. 10 years ago he would have been told to "STF Rookie".

I hate when Bickley makes a good point.
 
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Louis

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I see nothing wrong with proclaiming a starting QB for the next season. Whiz did put out a disclaimer that it would still have to be earned.

Jack Del Rio did the same thing and ended up going the other way, cutting the initially named starter, and experienced success with it.
 

BigRedMO

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It used to be that the rookie QB would watch, study, and practise for serveral years after being drafted. Most HOF QB's have been "raised" this way.

It is a relatively recent tendency to draft your rookie QB and push him into service; for the Cardinals, Jake was an example that was rushed to duty, mostly because what we had as a starter was other team's washed-up back up.

Rushing a QB in can be dangerous; Ryan Leaf comes to mind...maybe Alex Smith...this might be worth a little research and a whole seperate thread.

I can safely say that Warner is niether washed-up nor posting back-up numbers; yet he has to show that his not too old a dog to learn and improve on managing the game and protecting the ball.

Strange, but even though Matt wants to start, he has not earned it. 10 years ago he would have been told to "STF Rookie".

I hate when Bickley makes a good point.

I dont agree with the notion that it is only a recent trend to push young QBs into the starting job. The pressure to win has always been there and head coaches have always done what increases there chance to win. Lomax was drafted in '81 and was named the starter for final 6 games of the season. '82 he was named the starter for the season.
 
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imaCafan

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I bet by game 4 Matt is looking decent to good with Kurt coming in like the start of this season, or he struggles again and gets benched in favor of the "master"......just hope if the latter occurs we aren't 0-4 when it happens. My hope is Matt's play keeps Kurt on the bench......
 

RugbyMuffin

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This guy is just stirring the pot.

Coach Whiz has already sat one first rounder in A.Rolle when he got beat out in training camp, and if Leinart comes into camp and doesn't look good Warner will get his shot.


Plus that was a BIG assumption about T.Holt giving his brother "inside information" on our QB situation. Plus when it comes to T.Holt the Cardinals best chance to win is if he gets lost on his way to the stadium.

You eventually have to see what you got in Matt Leinart and since Warner is getting VERY old at this point it makes sense to start the younger guy.

Plus I don't see how the locker room would become divided since the team had TWO QB's playing at the start of the year and there were no gripes about it.

I think this team believes in thier coach and doesn't care who plays were as long as they win.

But as I read in some of the post before....nothing the media likes better than a QB contriversy so this will be talked about for the next 365.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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Terrence Holt better worry about his own job,much less who the Cards QB is going to be.
 

imaCafan

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Holt will be gone (where's that finger crossing emoticon) and we will draft his replacement or Rolle will replace him...
 

Renz

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Leinart isn't a rookie. He will be going into his third year next season. He hasn't played a lot of games, but he has had two years to watch and learn. Eventually, you have to play him to see what he's got.

Matt isn't going to learn any more sitting on the bench, IMO.
 

ajcardfan

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Right now, I say this is all good. Leinart is no dummy. He knows Warner finished the season as a top 10 passer in the NFL. I truly believe that will light a fire under his ass to work harder than he ever has before.
 

Covert Rain

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I think ML played like crap before he got hurt. I was beginning to wonder myself if this guy was going to live up to the hype. Maybe ML will live up to the hype but his play leading up to the injury showed no confidence or focus.

Every time I saw Warner come in for some reason I had more confidence in our offense. That is not a good thing when as a fan you keep telling yourself "put Warner in". At the very least, ML could use the fire and fear of losing his job in training camp.
 

football karma

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I also beleive this is much to do about nothing

Wis is the same head coach that shocked every Cardinal fan out there by inserting Warner out of the blue ---

dont you think that he wont hesitate to put Kurt in there if Matt stinks it up?
 

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If this article were written by Somers I would have found it WAY more credible. But it wasn't so I won't. He basically wrote a synopsis about the other 17,000 topics written on the other Cardinal forum. Threads started by "Cardinal Fans" who do nothing more than rip ML and Coach Whiz, by calling ML the next Ryan Leaf and Whiz a "putz" with no facts to back it up. This QB "controversy" is crap and come Sept. the QB that gives us the best chance to win will be on the field.

I hope to God it's ML because that means this team will be successful for more than one season. The thought of looking for another QBOF and setting this franchise back another 5 years with this much talent makes me want to cry.
 
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