Ask yourself this...

[JohnnyCakes]

So you prefer another rookie head coach with zero head coaching experience to replace the rookie head coach with zero head coaching experience? That's an interesting take.

plenty of great head coaches were rookies once.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

Ken Whisenhunt was a first time coach and he also got the Card a Lombardi

 

[Harry]

I wrote this wrong. I said elevate. I don't think that's the right word.

It's more that the QB is 75% of winning. You can have the best roster, or a roster full of talent, a great HC and still suck without a QB. I think the Browns have a pretty good roster right now, probably better than the Bears and Patriots, but without a QB it's meaningless.

I’ve got no quibble with elevate.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What if I told you this roster has shocking parallels to the 2012 roster.

Both had Kyler Murray at QB were injured to end the year.

Both had James Conner as the lead back who got injured.

Both had a young back Trey Benson/Eno Benjamin who also got injured.

Both had Trey McBride and another TE who got injured (Ertz/Tip)

Both had Beachum at RT.

Both had a top 8-14 LT Humphries/PJJ.

Both had a vet C who wasn't as good as people wanted him to be Hudson/Fro.

Both had Will Hernandez at G.

Both had a disappointing 3rd round draft pick at G. Josh Jones/Isaiah Adams.

Both had the #1 WR getting injured and not performing ideally. Hopkins/MHJ.

Both had the best DL on the team as a vet who was going to retire. JJ Watt/Calais Campbell.

Both had one player in double digit sacks and no one else over 5.5 (premature but Sweat/JJ Watt)

Both had a young DL player who made splash plays (Allen/Nolen)

Best CB on both teams was a nickel CB (Murphy and Gwill)

Both had Budda and Jalen Thompson as S.

Both had bad ILB play.

Now I’m officially depressed. Thanks a lot k9

 

[Dback Jon]

Players don't like bad coaches.

Fans and owners don't like coaches that don't hold players accountable.

 

[BritCard]

The point is that it is a close debate. In year 3. Compared to a team that went 4-13.

It's not really a close debate. It's a glass half full view when 90% of the roster today is better.

Would you swap Trey Benson and his 4.9 YPA for Eno and his 3.9 YPA if both in year 2? Of course not. It's just pessimism.

 

[Harry]

I wouldn't say lots. Some teams have won with mediocre QBs but far less than those with good QB's.

Disagree on Bowles. He's been good with good QB's and bad with bad QB's. This is a pattern that follows all coaches, even the very best.

I’m pretty old so the losing good QBs list would be long. Some of them played for the Cards

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I hear you. I can't say that it's Gannon though. The team still seems bought into him. I don't get the feeling they are out. I think he can be a great coach (Vrabel has much more experience) and as this franchise does not normally attract the best talent I'd still rather stick with a guy that I think can be great, than role the dice on another Kliff or Steve Wilks. And I want to see him with a QB that he chooses.

I agree he is currently making mistakes. I didn't like the 4th down call vs the Bucs. I think we should have punted, tried to pin them deep and still plenty of time to get the ball back. I didn't like the 4th down call against the Packers either. And there are other less obvious issues, but I'm ok with him learning while Kyler is still at QB because I know we aren't going anywhere while he is driving. That has to change with a new QB. (Much of this also applies to Rallis)

I think I've seen enough of Petzing without Kyler to say that he has issues. When Kyler was there there were obvious issues with Kyler that made it difficult to judge Petzing, a lot of the talk here was nobody getting open and no routes past 10 yards, which have since been proven wrong. I don't think he's terrible, but I do think he's unimaginative and isn't getting more out of the players, in fact he's getting less out of guys like Marv than their talent dictates.

I'd be fine with moving on from Petzing and Drew Terrell. I'd move on from Justin Frye too (Bill Callahan is available). I don't really want Petzing overseeing a rookie QB.

Wait, you think Gannon has a chance to be great because you’re relying on a leopard changing his spots? Dude has doubled and tripled down the same mistakes over and over again this year. He isn’t evidencing any learning curve. Sorry man, I’ve seen some pretty lengthy reaches to support the worst franchise, GMs, and coaches over the years, but this one might be on the Mount Rushmore of silly excuses to support any of it.

 

[Mulli]

You play to win the game.

Current team doesn’t appear much closer to winning.

 

[Mulli]

Fans and owners don't like coaches that don't hold players accountable.

Some fans don’t seem to mind

 

[BritCard]

This is wild. You are arguing that the roster is good. Gannon can be good.

In fact, you are arguing that Gannon is a better coach than Kliff, despite Kliff having a .100+ better winning %. That Monti's roster is better than Keim's 2022 roster even though the 2022 roster won 4 games and the Cardinals currently have only won 3.

And, the biggest factor holding back Gannon/Monti is Kyler, the exact QB that Kliff had when he posted a better winning % and took the team to the playoffs.

But by all means, don't let these facts get in the way.

I'm arguing no such thing. I said Gannon has his issues but he's still learning and I'm happy for him to learn while he has a failed QB.

Kliff didn't have that, he had (in hindsight) Kyler's best years. A #1 pick he hand picked himself which he failed to develop.

It's now clear to us all, including you, that Kyler is a bust that Gannon inherited and has been stuck with. I can't judge him on results because of that, because I think QB's are most of what it takes to win.

If you can bring Matt LeFleur or KOC or Dan Campbell here than fine, bye bye Gannon. But considering our options are going to be Mike McCarthy, Arthur Smith, Frank Reich etc then I'm not interested. And it's not going to be Joe Brady or Josh Grizzard interviewing for the job, it's going to be Frank Smith, Joe Lombardy and Dan Pitcher.

I think Gannon has potential and the sea change that a new HC would bring (and likely not a good one) would end up worse.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If they replace Gannon, that will be 3 consecutive failed HC hires, that had zero previous HC experience. Wilks, KK, JG. What's that they say about insanity?

You do know that some first time head coaches experience success, right? Otherwise we’d run out of coaches because no one would vote anyone new. The data doesn’t support your thesis.

FYI the only coaches to ever take tge Arizona Cardinals to the playoffs have been first time nfl head coaches.

Tobin
Whis
Arians
Kliff

 

[Mulli]

You do know that some first time head coaches experience success, right? Otherwise we’d run out of coaches because no one would vote anyone new. The data doesn’t support your thesis.

Ben Johnson, six wins behind Gannon!

 

[BritCard]

Arizona Cardinals Report Card 2025

nflpa.com

Bull.

I mean, that says they like him, not that he's a bad coach. This enforces my point.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

plenty of great head coaches were rookies once.

True, but Cards need stability and growth.

 

[kerouac9]

Is he still a HC? He failed and that's all that matters at this point. Also, it's Wilks. lol

I keep seeing people wanting to hire Adams as HC? Why on Earth would we trust the keys to the kingdom (even if the kingdom is like a 3rd world country) to another person with zero HC experience and also very little coordinator experience, like Wilks and Gannon? I wouldn't give him the keys to Candyland. If you can pry him from Dallas as OC with an inflated title, fine, but no way to HC.

Not sure getting fired by Michael Bidwill means anything for your long-term future or overall ability to succeed. Arians was effectively fired by Michael Bidwill then went on to win the Super Bowl.

People are really overweighting the value of HC experience. Maybe that matters in years 1 or 2, but obviously that’s going to decrease over time.

DeMeco Ryans is eight games over .500 as a first time head coach in two and a half seasons.

Kevin O’Connell is 13 games over .500 as a first time HC and won 13 his first season.

Vegas hired deeply experienced Pete Carroll and how has that worked out? Atlanta hired Reheem Morris who was a three-year head coach for the Bucs and an interim for the Falcons. The result has left them four games under .500.

Good coaches find a way to win regardless of experience. Bad coaches find a way to fail and not learn the correct lessons for why they were fired in the first place.

 

[BritCard]

Only Cardinals fans could be torn about guys that (likely) lead us to a cumulative 16-35 record over three years.

That said, addressing the roster: it’s not good. It is likely keeping us in games. But there’s nothing to hang your hat on. This isn’t a defensive team. This isn’t a smash mouth running team. This isn’t a greatest show on turf. It’s a lot of mediocrity dotted with some good, but not great, players. But the ultimate downfall for Monti isn’t overall roster talent imo, it’s one glaring issue . . . the offensive line. These were his guys. This was the line he built. That’s all, imo, that’s needed to make a determination about his role. And it ain’t good.

What NFL teams are any of those things?

 

[RON_IN_OC]

You do know that some first time head coaches experience success, right? Otherwise we’d run out of coaches because no one would vote anyone new. The data doesn’t support your thesis.

Of course, but the Cards need someone to stabilize the franchise...no more crap shoots for a while.

 

[BritCard]

I’ve got no quibble with elevate.

I'm not sure they do elevate. They just make what those players do mean something.

Is a great QB elevating a free safety? Not really. But he makes that PBU on 3rd and 6 mean something in a close game that you go onto win, rather than being meaningless in a game you lose by 10 after being behind all game.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

Rip the bandaid off and bring in Gruden

 

[kerouac9]

True, but Cards need stability and growth.

Pretty sure Gannon has been stablely bad, and that’s why we’re having this conversation?

 

[kerouac9]

Of course, but the Cards need someone to stabilize the franchise...no more crap shoots for a while.

My guy over here stumping for Jeff Fisher

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I mean, that says they like him, not that he's a bad coach. This enforces my point.

No, it doesn't. They like him because he's a nice guy, NOT because he's a good coach. You're seriously arguing being good is a necessary condition for players to like a coach? Look at my avatar - maybe you were or weren't a fan of the Cards during the Dave McGinnis years. Everyone loved him! He wasn't a good coach. There are a million examples of this.

We're 3 years in here - Gannon isn't a rookie or unknown quantity at this point. He's proven to be a bad NFL head coach. What tactical advantage does he give his players? What part of his leadership is leading to WINNING GAMES, which is the only thing that matters?

What evidence do you have that he's a good coach?

 

[BritCard]

Wait, you think Gannon has a chance to be great because you’re relying on a leopard changing his spots? Dude has doubled and tripled down the same mistakes over and over again this year. He isn’t evidencing any learning curve. Sorry man, I’ve seen some pretty lengthy reaches to support the worst franchise, GMs, and coaches over the years, but this one might be on the Mount Rushmore of silly excuses to support any of it.

Disagree. He's forcing situations because he's desperate for wins. He's rolling the dice on low odds decisions because he doesn't have a QB that can make the difference.

It's the same pathology that gamblers get when behind. It will work this time, what other choice do I have?

I want to see Gannon with a better QB before I judge him. Would be weird for me to write him off when a) I have always thought Kyler was a bad QB and b) I think QB's are 75% of winning.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I want to see Gannon with a better QB before I judge him. Would be weird for me to write him off when a) I have always thought Kyler was a bad QB and b) I think QB's are 75% of winning.

Kyler is not a bad QB. He's perfectly mediocre. Kyler is a better QB than Gannon is a HC.