Ask yourself this...

[slanidrac16]

Some think we are miles away from a winning team.

Look at the Patriots starting 11. Aside from Drake Maye, which starters are better than what we have. Be honest.

And how many are worse? How many could you honestly name without looking?

This team has many of the pieces, but no keystone. And yes, some of that might be coaching.

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As soon as they hired Mike Vrabel I thought great hire and they will improve. Didn’t think this good this fast. But this is how valuable coaching is.
By the way , the fix is in. 40 years later Bears vs. Patriots 2.

 

[slanidrac16]

Good post. However, becoming a consistently winning team goes beyond names and how any of us might assess and compare talent level. Yes, the Jimmy and the Joe's matter. And we can say the Cards have many players who could be considered on par or better than their peers at same positions across the league. And yet, we still lose.

Teams like the Patriots, Texans, Panthers, Buccaneers, Bears... perhaps the Hawks can be included here... are filled with players many of us would say are at best, equal to their Cardinal peers. Yet, they're winning while this franchise continues to remain a cellar-dweller.

IMHO, it takes the right players who possess enough football IQ, talent and grit, PLUS, an alpha leader or two, PLUS the right head coach and full compliment of position coaches.
Putting our players in the right positions to be successful... Calling the right play at the right time... Preparing the players each week in ways that create the best chances for wins... These are the areas this franchise seems to never get right. I mean, how did it take Brissett to unveil Michael Wilson and unlock Zay Jones before he got hurt?
How can it be explained that this o-line, which is virtually the exact same o-line from a year ago, has fallen off a cliff? Why is Josh Sweat the only credible pass rusher? In what universe does it make sense to go for a long 4th and 1, inside your own 40 yards line, down one score??

We have players who, in abundance it seems, lack the level of football IQ found on many other teams throughout the league. And, based upon the results, we seem to be lacking in the coaching area across the entire team.

Coaching matters. Gannon was a rookie coach that surrounded him with young under experienced coaches.

I mention Mike McCarthy which wasn’t readily accepted by most. However his experience and ability to reach deep into experienced coaching trees would be welcomed.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

I think McCarthy is a bum, without Rodgers he doesnt win a thing. If Bidwill was serious he would keep Gannon and Rallis around and bring in a loaded Offensive staff.

My pick would be Adams from Dallas and draft a QB and o lineman and RB. Let rallis and JG continue to develop defense

 

[slanidrac16]

I think McCarthy is a bum, without Rodgers he doesnt win a thing. If Bidwill was serious he would keep Gannon and Rallis around and bring in a loaded Offensive staff.

My pick would be Adams from Dallas and draft a QB and o lineman and RB. Let rallis and JG continue to develop defense

Please tell me how many “ loaded offensive coaches” are going to want to come to this ship storm?
You think Adams is going to come here for anything less than a head coach position?

 

[kerouac9]

OK, here’s a question that has not appeared in this discussion thread: every week, it seems, another Cardinals player is going on Injured Reserve and others are not playing because of lesser injuries. The RB room has been decimated because of injuries. Other positions too. I was trying to determine how many players have missed games this year? Is there a measure across the NFL that would show injuries per team? For example, there are 22 starting players per game (obviously there is a QB 1 and QB2, RT1 and RT2, TE1, and so on). Is there a metric that would show the missed games the various players have missed? Which team has played with the most starters. Which team has had the most 2s or 3s in the game. Maybe there’s a value for a No. 1, and a lesser value for a No2 and so on. Which team would look better because they have the most starters playing more snaps.

You’re looking for Adjusted Games Lost, which doesn’t come out until the Super Bowl.

This is a fairly useful metric that’s similar:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/injured/_/year/2025/view/team

 

[Mickdog]

Some think we are miles away from a winning team.

Look at the Patriots starting 11. Aside from Drake Maye, which starters are better than what we have. Be honest.

And how many are worse? How many could you honestly name without looking?

This team has many of the pieces, but no keystone. And yes, some of that might be coaching.

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We are miles away from a winning team.

375 miles to be exact.

The distance between SoFi and State Farm.

Seems further with MJB driving the bus.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

what do any of them do well? Yikes. Barely replacement level

You're right. Budda is a replacement level player that probably starts on at least 27 other teams.

 

[Syracusecards]

I have always liked Vrabel as a coach. I think Tennessee were idiots to get rid of him.
However, I don't think NE is near as good as their record shows. Even though they had the big win against Buffalo, they have played a crap schedule. Their wins are against Jets, Panthers, Saints, Titans, Browns, Giants, Bengals, Falcons, Dolphins.
I guess what I am saying is, don't use NE roster as an example of what to strive for. They are the exception.

Completely agree. Titans were stupid to can Vrabel but for NE, aside from a couple games, their schedule has been a cakewalk. I will say, I was really impressed by Drake Maye when Syracuse played against him. I think he’s got potential to be a Hall of Fame quarterback.

 

[daves]

You’re looking for Adjusted Games Lost, which doesn’t come out until the Super Bowl.

This is a fairly useful metric that’s similar:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/injured/_/year/2025/view/team

Interesting... But would be more interesting if it used average annual contract value rather than "cash totals". Not surprised to see the Cardinals high on the list, but the 49ers at 17th despite missing Purdy, Warner, Bosa, Aiyuk, etc. for large parts of the season is pretty counter-intuitive.

 

[AZCB34]

This is the 38th season in Arizona and they’ve had 8 winning seasons.

Oh just hang in there I promise.

Brutal

 

[AZCB34]

Maybe it’s just me but I get so annoyed with people saying “well their schedule is so soft”. Who cares? Have we forgotten how hard it is to win an NFL game? Have the Cardinals not shown the fans here how hard it is to win a game?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Maybe it’s just me but I get so annoyed with people saying “well their schedule is so soft”. Who cares? Have we forgotten how hard it is to win an NFL game? Have the Cardinals not shown the fans here how hard it is to win a game?

Schedule being soft only matters for good organizations. It would be nice to support one of those...

 

[BritCard]

lol @ “might be”


A big part is coaching.


Can’t use the Kyler excuse because Jacoby has played solid ball, yes, obviously better than Kyler

And yet, we’re still losing games.


Vrabel is a much better HC than Gannon. He has shown that in Tennessee with Ryan Tannehill as the starting QB now he’s showing it in New England.

I hear you. I can't say that it's Gannon though. The team still seems bought into him. I don't get the feeling they are out. I think he can be a great coach (Vrabel has much more experience) and as this franchise does not normally attract the best talent I'd still rather stick with a guy that I think can be great, than role the dice on another Kliff or Steve Wilks. And I want to see him with a QB that he chooses.

I agree he is currently making mistakes. I didn't like the 4th down call vs the Bucs. I think we should have punted, tried to pin them deep and still plenty of time to get the ball back. I didn't like the 4th down call against the Packers either. And there are other less obvious issues, but I'm ok with him learning while Kyler is still at QB because I know we aren't going anywhere while he is driving. That has to change with a new QB. (Much of this also applies to Rallis)

I think I've seen enough of Petzing without Kyler to say that he has issues. When Kyler was there there were obvious issues with Kyler that made it difficult to judge Petzing, a lot of the talk here was nobody getting open and no routes past 10 yards, which have since been proven wrong. I don't think he's terrible, but I do think he's unimaginative and isn't getting more out of the players, in fact he's getting less out of guys like Marv than their talent dictates.

I'd be fine with moving on from Petzing and Drew Terrell. I'd move on from Justin Frye too (Bill Callahan is available). I don't really want Petzing overseeing a rookie QB.

 

[BritCard]

subpar coaches subpar starting qbs subpar o-line

Maybe, but look at the Pats O line.

 

[BritCard]

I have always liked Vrabel as a coach. I think Tennessee were idiots to get rid of him.
However, I don't think NE is near as good as their record shows. Even though they had the big win against Buffalo, they have played a crap schedule. Their wins are against Jets, Panthers, Saints, Titans, Browns, Giants, Bengals, Falcons, Dolphins.
I guess what I am saying is, don't use NE roster as an example of what to strive for. They are the exception.

Disagree. Look at the Cards roster in 2013, 2014, and even 2015. Look at the 2021 roster. Look at the Bengals super bowl roster. Look at the Commanders NFC Championship roster last year which is basically the same as the very bad Commanders this year without Daniels.

The common denominator here is that you get a good QB and it elevates everything. (The Cards 2021 roster was elevated by 7-8 games where Kyler was legit great).

The Patriots have been playing great football. The schedule thing is bogus. Yes, it's been an easy schedule but winning 10 straight is not easy against any teams, even the worst teams in the league can still beat you (Look at Panthers - Rams).

 

[BritCard]

This is the Patriots current starting lineup, which doesn't include their injured players like Will Campbell and Milton Williams.

Also, how many of our players would they want to swap into their lineup? McBride, MHJ and Sweat for sure. Probably Nolen. Maybe Budda. Beyond that, I don't really see any.

Paris, Wilson, the whole D line except Barmore, everyone we have at Edge over Chaisson, Garrett Williams.

And who would we take from them? Maye, Barmore, Gonzalez?

 

[BritCard]

QB - Still Murray
RB1 - Still Conner
RB2 - Unproven Eno Benjamin to unproven Trey Benson
TE - Still McBride (obviously much better now)
WR1 - Deandre Hopkins to MHJ
WR2 - Marquis Brown to Michael Wilson
WR3 - AJ Green to Zay Jones
LT - DJ Humphries to PJJ
LG - Justin Pugh to Evan Brown
C - Hudson to Fro
RG - Still Will H
RT - Still Kelvin Beachum (despite Jonah signing)

DE - JJ Watt to Calais Campbell
NT - Leki Fotu to Dalvin Tomlinson
DE - Zach Allen to Walter Nolen

EDGE - Markus Golden to Josh Sweat
EDGE - Devon Kennard to Zaven Collins
ILB - Isaiah Simmons to ADG
ILB - Zaven Collins to Mack Wilson

CB - Byron Murphy to Garrett Williams
CB - Marco Wilson to Will J
S - Still Budda
S - Still Jalen

This team is much better. Evident from the list.

Benson is better than Eno. Eno was a 7th round washout.
McBride is much better
Nuk has been a corpse since he left here, as has Hollywood.
PJJ is better than Hump
Hudson was always injured and was well past his prime. Fro has been good and reliable.
Dalvin is far better than Leki.
Year 1 Walted Nolen is far better than even year 3 Zach Allen.
Sweat over Golden is a no brainer.
Kennard was ass. Zaven is solid. In fact that whole room is far better.
Simmons was ass.
Mack Wilson is better than Zaven at ILB
I never liked Murphy, I think Williams is better
Marco was ass, Will J far better

The only player I'd swap for 2022 is JJ Watt. Calais has been awesome and I love him but JJ Watt could play 70% of snaps.

The guys behind the starters are also far better.

 

[BritCard]

Coaching matters. Gannon was a rookie coach that surrounded him with young under experienced coaches.

I mention Mike McCarthy which wasn’t readily accepted by most. However his experience and ability to reach deep into experienced coaching trees would be welcomed.

I agree that Vrabel is a good coach. But he was great when he had good QB's. First Tannehill, and now Maye.

When he had bad QB's (Malik Willis and Will Levis) he was 7-10 (6 of those wins with Tannehill) and 6-11.

Heck, look at the GOAT. He's not been so much of the G without Tom Brady at QB has he?

I think you will find that Gannon is suddenly much better when he has a QB. The same goes for most HCs.

Did Todd Bowles suddenly get far better as a HC at Tampa? Or does having Brady and Baker over bad Sam Darnold, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Josh McCown make all the difference?

 

[kerouac9]

I think he can be a great coach

15-31

 

[schutd]

This team is much better. Evident from the list.

Benson is better than Eno. Eno was a 7th round washout.
McBride is much better
Nuk has been a corpse since he left here, as has Hollywood.
PJJ is better than Hump
Hudson was always injured and was well past his prime. Fro has been good and reliable.
Dalvin is far better than Leki.
Year 1 Walted Nolen is far better than even year 3 Zach Allen.
Sweat over Golden is a no brainer.
Kennard was ass. Zaven is solid. In fact that whole room is far better.
Simmons was ass.
Mack Wilson is better than Zaven at ILB
I never liked Murphy, I think Williams is better
Marco was ass, Will J far better

The only player I'd swap for 2022 is JJ Watt. Calais has been awesome and I love him but JJ Watt could play 70% of snaps.

The guys behind the starters are also far better.

Nolan showed us in 1 game what he is capable of. Then, went down again. Need him on the field. His talent level is meaningless on the sidelines. Seeing a little life from DRob here at the end of the season would be nice.

 

[az jam]

15-31

The Cardinals are not a good coached team. Who gives a dam if they like the coach. The bottom line is winning. Three years of losing is enough for any team. Just watch the Cardinals in every game's 4th quarter, they are out-coached and lose. Todd Boyles knew what the key plays were and was ready for them.

 

[Harry]

QB - Still Murray
RB1 - Still Conner
RB2 - Unproven Eno Benjamin to unproven Trey Benson
TE - Still McBride (obviously much better now)
WR1 - Deandre Hopkins to MHJ
WR2 - Marquis Brown to Michael Wilson
WR3 - AJ Green to Zay Jones
LT - DJ Humphries to PJJ
LG - Justin Pugh to Evan Brown
C - Hudson to Fro
RG - Still Will H
RT - Still Kelvin Beachum (despite Jonah signing)

DE - JJ Watt to Calais Campbell
NT - Leki Fotu to Dalvin Tomlinson
DE - Zach Allen to Walter Nolen

EDGE - Markus Golden to Josh Sweat
EDGE - Devon Kennard to Zaven Collins
ILB - Isaiah Simmons to ADG
ILB - Zaven Collins to Mack Wilson

CB - Byron Murphy to Garrett Williams
CB - Marco Wilson to Will J
S - Still Budda
S - Still Jalen

I’ll take the current roster except at WR

 

[Harry]

Coaching matters. Gannon was a rookie coach that surrounded him with young under experienced coaches.

I mention Mike McCarthy which wasn’t readily accepted by most. However his experience and ability to reach deep into experienced coaching trees would be welcomed.

I’m not opposed to McCarthy. He’s credible and could build a playoff contender. That said he needs to choose coordinators who are more creative than those he’s historically chosen. He tends ro be very conservative, which Bidwill would like, but eventually he’ll alienate the fan base. I would not offer more than a 3 year contract.

 

[Harry]

You're right. Budda is a replacement level player that probably starts on at least 27 other teams.

He’s a fine leader, but his play impact level has declined.

 

[Harry]

I agree that Vrabel is a good coach. But he was great when he had good QB's. First Tannehill, and now Maye.

When he had bad QB's (Malik Willis and Will Levis) he was 7-10 (6 of those wins with Tannehill) and 6-11.

Heck, look at the GOAT. He's not been so much of the G without Tom Brady at QB has he?

I think you will find that Gannon is suddenly much better when he has a QB. The same goes for most HCs.

Did Todd Bowles suddenly get far better as a HC at Tampa? Or does having Brady and Baker over bad Sam Darnold, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Josh McCown make all the difference?

Can’t agree here. Bowles helped improve Mayfield. I don’t think he suddenly got better, he just learned and grew. Sure a good QB is critical, but lots of teams have lost with good QBs. Ask Dan Marino.