Do you like the Chris Paul Trade?

[Covert Rain]

You may think it's ludicrous, but that's the reality. I don't understand how you don't see that.

The Suns took on all that contract money and chewed up cap space just to get into the playoffs? I don't get how you don't see how ludicrous that take is. It might be your reality but the team is in win now mode for 2 seasons.

If the Suns make another move that only furthers proof they want to make a run for the next two years.

What this trade does indicate is that the Suns are in a win-now mode with a 2-year window. That's a little scary to me. I would like to have seen a longer-term squad put together. But maybe that's where we are with Booker in this player-with-the-power league.

This.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

A rent a player for two years isn't going to have a huge impact on any players on this team over the long haul. Answer this. What impact do you think this has if CP3 moves on, we go back to having a crappy PG and bounce right back out of the playoffs?

A top two of Ayton and Booker (especially in 2 years) should be able to make the playoffs in this league and that will only be aided by what they learn from Paul about how to win.

Then when his contract is up we will have the money to go after another star free agent and enough assets to pursue a trade for one if available.

The cupboards won’t be bare two years from now and we really didn’t lose too much as far as the future is concerned. Rubio likely would have been gone in two years as well, Oubre probably gone after this year and with Paul that pick is likely in the 20s.

 

[JCSunsfan]

And if they are in a win-now mode, with a 2-year window, but they are not really championship contenders, then their plan is basically to top out now and start rebuilding without actually ever being contenders. I guess making the playoffs is a good enough goal for them.

Maybe that is too pessimistic. They will have Ayton, but Paul will be gone in two years and Booker will likely go too IMO, unless they can find a new pg to replace Paul.

Cheese is right about Book and the Lakers.

 

[Mainstreet]

A rent a player for two years isn't going to have a huge impact on any players on this team over the long haul. Answer this. What impact do you think this has if CP3 moves on, we go back to having a crappy PG and bounce right back out of the playoffs?

I've been critical of the trade but the league is all about stars. The Suns hope to ride a two year wave with Chris Paul while Ayton and Booker develop as stars all the while building a reputation as a place where free agents want to go.

Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't.

When Paul's contract expires it will give the Suns a huge chunk of change either to go after a free agent or pay their own players.

I would have added to the team but the way the league is now, if you snooze, you lose.

 

[Chaplin]

The Suns took on all that contract money and chewed up cap space just to get into the playoffs?

Yes!

1) What good would "all that" cap space really have done this season? The FA class is below average and even if we renounced every one of our guys, we would only have 17m. And that is losing half the team, specifically Dario Saric. Who at 17m would be worth spending on this offseason?

2) Deven Booker, Devin Booker, Devin Booker. You KNOW the goal for the past 5 years has been to make the playoffs. Not win a championship, make the playoffs. IMO, getting Chris Paul nearly guarantees a playoff appearance, and I'm sorry, much more than Ricky Rubio and Kelly Oubre did (and I love Rubio).

3) The bubble proved how possibly irrelevant Kelly would be on this team, so it was in our best interest to trade him. We traded him for an asset that helps get to the playoffs. That is not in dispute here.

4) Yes, the contract is bad, but if it doesn't work out, he'll be an expiring next year.

5) This is just as much about culture, pleasing your star, giving your #2 a kick in the ass, as it is about getting to the playoffs. This is a young team that needs the playoff experience to take the next step, which is in of itself the next step to getting a championship.

6) Finally, nobody in their right mind expects this to be a championship-winning move. But it is absolutely a move that accelerates the roadmap to it.

 

[Chaplin]

And if they are in a win-now mode, with a 2-year window, but they are not really championship contenders, then their plan is basically to top out now and start rebuilding without actually ever being contenders. I guess making the playoffs is a good enough goal for them.

Maybe that is too pessimistic. They will have Ayton, but Paul will be gone in two years and Booker will likely go too IMO, unless they can find a new pg to replace Paul.

Cheese is right about Book and the Lakers.

They are in a "win-now" mode to win to get to the playoffs, not a championship. At least be realistic.

 

[Mainstreet]

And if they are in a win-now mode, with a 2-year window, but they are not really championship contenders, then their plan is basically to top out now and start rebuilding without actually ever being contenders. I guess making the playoffs is a good enough goal for them.

Maybe that is too pessimistic. They will have Ayton, but Paul will be gone in two years and Booker will likely go too IMO, unless they can find a new pg to replace Paul.

Cheese is right about Book and the Lakers.

It makes a strong case for drafting a point guard in this draft.

 

[JCSunsfan]

They are in a "win-now" mode to win to get to the playoffs, not a championship. At least be realistic.

I am. That's what I was saying. They are in a win-now mode, for the playoffs. That's the only reasonable expectation. The problem is that they have a two year window with Paul, so a championship is not realistically in view beyond that unless somehow they draft a star or pick up another star in trade or free agency.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Again. I have a simple question. It is not intended as a criticism. I want to know the answer.

Chris Paul is a walk it up the floor pg. Do we slow our team down to accommodate him, or does this team still run and gun?

I don't think it'll change much. Without looking up the stats, the team last year pushed the pace primarily on turnovers. Bridges, Carter, and yes, Rubio, and Oubre contribute to getting steals/deflections and the whole team would push it. I suspect we'll see the team continue to try and take advantage of those scenarios.

 

[Chaplin]

I am. That's what I was saying. They are in a win-now mode, for the playoffs. That's the only reasonable expectation. The problem is that they have a two year window with Paul, so a championship is not realistically in view beyond that unless somehow they draft a star or pick up another star in trade or free agency.

That's correct. It's the mode they've been in for a few years now. And it looks like we'll finally be able to get over that hump this coming season. It's pretty exciting, but that's just me.

 

[Yuma]

I am. That's what I was saying. They are in a win-now mode, for the playoffs. That's the only reasonable expectation. The problem is that they have a two year window with Paul, so a championship is not realistically in view beyond that unless somehow they draft a star or pick up another star in trade or free agency.

Or pick up Lebron James!

 

[AzStevenCal]

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That's correct. It's the mode they've been in for a few years now. And it looks like we'll finally be able to get over that hump this coming season. It's pretty exciting, but that's just me.

For me, I just don't think he's increased the likelihood we'll make the playoffs by all that much. If he and the team are reasonably healthy, we almost definitely make the playoffs. But if we hadn't made the trade and stayed fairly healthy, I still think we had a very good chance to make the playoffs with basically just our returning cast.

IMO, where a healthy Paul could make the biggest difference is where we'd be seeded plus he gives us a good chance of not being a quick out in the postseason, which I think would be unlikely otherwise.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

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For me, I just don't think he's increased the likelihood we'll make the playoffs by all that much. If he and the team are reasonably healthy, we almost definitely make the playoffs. But if we hadn't made the trade and stayed fairly healthy, I still think we had a very good chance to make the playoffs with basically just our returning cast.

IMO, where a healthy Paul could make the biggest difference is where we'd be seeded plus he gives us a good chance of not being a quick out in the postseason, which I think would be unlikely otherwise.

Every team Paul joins get significantly better. Hornets added 20 wins in his rookie year, Clippers went from 32-50 to 40-26 with Paul (50 win pace), Houston went from 55 wins to 65 and OKC won 49 with Westbrook and were on pace for 50 with Paul.

Teams also tend to get much worse when he leaves, but I think we can avoid that because Booker and Ayton would still be here and we have enough money to pay for another star. Maybe that 3rd star is even someone that develops on our team in the next couple years as well.

 

[Chaplin]

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For me, I just don't think he's increased the likelihood we'll make the playoffs by all that much. If he and the team are reasonably healthy, we almost definitely make the playoffs. But if we hadn't made the trade and stayed fairly healthy, I still think we had a very good chance to make the playoffs with basically just our returning cast.

IMO, where a healthy Paul could make the biggest difference is where we'd be seeded plus he gives us a good chance of not being a quick out in the postseason, which I think would be unlikely otherwise.

I would edit that to say we would definitely have a good chance in the play-in tournament, but with Chris Paul, we have a good chance of avoiding the play-in tournament altogether.

 

[Covert Rain]

Yes!

1) What good would "all that" cap space really have done this season? The FA class is below average and even if we renounced every one of our guys, we would only have 17m. And that is losing half the team, specifically Dario Saric. Who at 17m would be worth spending on this offseason?

2) Deven Booker, Devin Booker, Devin Booker. You KNOW the goal for the past 5 years has been to make the playoffs. Not win a championship, make the playoffs. IMO, getting Chris Paul nearly guarantees a playoff appearance, and I'm sorry, much more than Ricky Rubio and Kelly Oubre did (and I love Rubio).

3) The bubble proved how possibly irrelevant Kelly would be on this team, so it was in our best interest to trade him. We traded him for an asset that helps get to the playoffs. That is not in dispute here.

4) Yes, the contract is bad, but if it doesn't work out, he'll be an expiring next year.

5) This is just as much about culture, pleasing your star, giving your #2 a kick in the ass, as it is about getting to the playoffs. This is a young team that needs the playoff experience to take the next step, which is in of itself the next step to getting a championship.

6) Finally, nobody in their right mind expects this to be a championship-winning move. But it is absolutely a move that accelerates the roadmap to it.

1. What good does using up most of your cap space if it never nets you a title? You use up all your cap space to give you a shot. The Suns have used cap space to use cap space before. How did that turn out? How happy are the fans after those seasons?

2. If you think simply getting in the playoffs the next two seasons is going to appease Booker you are crazy. This team will have to continue to make moves that Booker believes gives him a shot at a title. Listen to him talk. Short of a title he won't be happy. The Suns have a window with him to get it done and they know it. Nothing short of deep playoff runs to give him a shot is going to keep him here. Bank on it. I hope is more like Fitz but this isn't the NFL.

3. No the bubble proved that the team in an 8 game stretch can still play good ball. Sustaining that over an entire season is something else entirely. There is zero doubt about that.

4. The ONLY reason to take on a bad contract is if you plan on it paying off or you plan on dumping a ton of salary for a major free agent acquisition.

5. Renting a player for 2 years will not have any lasting impact on your culture. This is so overrated. Sustained philosophy and having similarly like minded players acquired over time does.

6. There is a difference between BELIEVING a single move like this will net you a title and HOPING or thinking it could. Especially, if you make another move. I have said repeatedly the Suns need to make another move if you want to maximize this trade.

P.S. Nobody is claiming that just acquiring Paul can reasonably assume that the team has a shot at a title. However, if you are the Suns, can't get big time free agents and only get guys at the end of their career or through the draft? You make whatever moves you can to give you a shot no matter how small.

What other choice is there for this team? What big time free agents are clamoring to come here? How do you take a shot in the window you have with Booker unless you make moves like this?

 

[Covert Rain]

I've been critical of the trade but the league is all about stars. The Suns hope to ride a two year wave with Chris Paul while Ayton and Booker develop as stars all the while building a reputation as a place where free agents want to go.

Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't.

When Paul's contract expires it will give the Suns a huge chunk of change either to go after a free agent or pay their own players.

I would have added to the team but the way the league is now, if you snooze, you lose.

I agree which is why I am not against this move. Maybe it works and maybe it doesn't. Maybe this is parlayed into another move for the team to acquire another player. That's pretty much my thought. Can a reputation of a team be changed in 2 seasons? Maybe. As I stated before Sarver has been letting basketball guys run things. If he continues that and the team does well the next two seasons? I can buy that the team reputation may recover a bit. I think that is a fair assumption.

 

[Chaplin]

1. What good does using up most of your cap space if it never nets you a title? You use up all your cap space to give you a shot. The Suns have used cap space to use cap space before. How did that turn out? How happy are the fans after those seasons?

2. If you think simply getting in the playoffs the next two seasons is going to appease Booker you are crazy. Renting a player for 2 years and say you don't get another PG? The team goes right back to where they were. Booker is unhappy again and this moved does ZERO. This is a very much what have you done for me lately league. Look at all the Stars leaving teams or traded after a couple seasons into a new team. The team is going to have to continue to get players he wants to play with AND get to the playoffs. Then go deep enough so he feels like he has a shot here for a title.

3. No the bubble proved that the team in an 8 game stretch can still play good ball. Sustaining that over an entire season is something else entirely. There is zero doubt about that.

4. The ONLY reason to take on a bad contract is if you plan on it paying off or you plan on dumping a ton of salary for a major free agent acquisition.

5. Renting a player for 2 years will not have any lasting impact on your culture. This is so overrated. Sustained philosophy and having similarly like minded players acquired over time does.

6. There is a difference between BELIEVING a single move like this will net you a title and HOPING or thinking it could. Especially, if you make another move. I have said repeatedly the Suns need to make another move if you want to maximize this trade.

P.S. Nobody is claiming that just acquiring Paul can reasonably assume that the team has a shot at a title. However, if you are the Suns, can't get big time free agents and only get guys at the end of their career or through the draft? You make whatever moves you can to give you a shot no matter how small.

What other choice is there for this team? What big time free agents are clamoring to come here? How do you take a shot in the window you have with Booker unless you make moves like this?

1) You make it sound like we're going to be capped out for the next 20 years. What do you care? You already admitted you don't expect a title in the next 2 years, so what is your short term goal? If you are expecting a title, then I'd say you have unrealistic expectations. If you DON'T, then what would be your goal? The next best goal would be advancing in the playoffs and then just getting to the playoffs before that. I'd say Paul helps with both those.

2) It will absolutely appease Booker in the short term. Sure, he wants a title, but if you think he's going to be UNHAPPY with getting to the playoffs next year (or in 2 years) you're off your rocker.

3) Why are you even bringing up the bubble? It was extremely exciting, but let's face it -- it likely isn't a good representation of where this team is considering the circumstances. We can confidently say we're close, but it doesn't exactly wipe away the crap we experienced back in February/March with the same lineup.

4) So you think Chris Paul is simply a "bad contract"? Many would disagree with you.

5) Hmm, we had Kelly Oubre for a year and a half, and there has been a NOTICEABLE change in the culture within the team.

6) What's your point? That we should make another move? I don't think you'll get anyone against that. Unless you're accusing me of being 100% satisfied with this roster, which I've never thought, nor voiced.

Chris Paul is so much more than just a bad contract for an old washed up player. That's where your disconnect is IMO. This has been gone over ad nauseum, so we'll just have to disagree and leave it at that.

 

[Mainstreet]

I agree which is why I am not against this move. Maybe it works and maybe it doesn't. Maybe this is parlayed into another move for the team to acquire another player. That's pretty much my thought. Can a reputation of a team be changed in 2 seasons? Maybe. As I stated before Sarver has been letting basketball guys run things. If he continues that and the team does well the next two seasons? I can buy that the team reputation may recover a bit. I think that is a fair assumption.

Booker and Paul are respected around the league and Ayton is a rising star so maybe the Suns can catch the wave and ride it for two years and hopefully establish a reputation as a destination for free agents.

 

[Covert Rain]

1) You make it sound like we're going to be capped out for the next 20 years. What do you care? You already admitted you don't expect a title in the next 2 years, so what is your short term goal? If you are expecting a title, then I'd say you have unrealistic expectations. If you DON'T, then what would be your goal? The next best goal would be advancing in the playoffs and then just getting to the playoffs before that. I'd say Paul helps with both those.

2) It will absolutely appease Booker in the short term. Sure, he wants a title, but if you think he's going to be UNHAPPY with getting to the playoffs next year (or in 2 years) you're off your rocker.

3) Why are you even bringing up the bubble? It was extremely exciting, but let's face it -- it likely isn't a good representation of where this team is considering the circumstances. We can confidently say we're close, but it doesn't exactly wipe away the crap we experienced back in February/March with the same lineup.

4) So you think Chris Paul is simply a "bad contract"? Many would disagree with you.

5) Hmm, we had Kelly Oubre for a year and a half, and there has been a NOTICEABLE change in the culture within the team.

6) What's your point? That we should make another move? I don't think you'll get anyone against that. Unless you're accusing me of being 100% satisfied with this roster, which I've never thought, nor voiced.

Chris Paul is so much more than just a bad contract for an old washed up player. That's where your disconnect is IMO. This has been gone over ad nauseum, so we'll just have to disagree and leave it at that.

1) I said nothing of the sort. Traditionally teams don't max out cap space to max out cap space. This team has done that before with little results. So, when a team does do that it's with a loftier goal in mind. Also, I didn't say I didn't expect a title in the next two years, I said that I don't believe just getting CP3 gets you there. I think if the team could pull off another impact player they could have a legit shot. So no, my expectations are not unrealistic. It's the opposite. Again, what other realistic shot does this team have that is viable to them to make a run?

2) SHORT TERM. Don't be obtuse. Yes, he will be happy for 2 seasons he got there. If you think that will appease him long term (see previous comment) as stated you are crazy. Short of deep runs and getting other players here he will be gone at the end of his contract or demand a trade. You want to bet? This dude is crazy competitive.

3) I didn't bring up the bubble you did (8-0 while Oubre was out) or maybe I misunderstood you. Sounds like we agree.

4) My God. Where did I say he was simply a bad contract? Where? I said he is a huge amount of money to chew up cap space unless you intend on making a run of it for two years.

5) Kelly Oubre? ********. You were not watching the televised games then and what commentators were saying. They repeatedly said he brought an energy and enthusiasm to the team. HOWEVER, go back and read what I said. Not one player can change a culture all by himself. Never claimed that. You love to put words in people's mouths.

6) I never accused you of anything. For f.....sake Chap.

 

[Covert Rain]

Booker and Paul are respected around the league and Ayton is a rising star so maybe the Suns can catch the wave and ride it for two years and hopefully establish a reputation as a destination for free agents.

That was my hope when we drafted Ayton. I mean drafting Duncan and Curry and having those players break out changed everything for those franchises.

 

[Chaplin]

1) I said nothing of the sort. Traditionally teams don't max out cap space to max out cap space. This team has done that before with little results. So, when a team does do that it's with a loftier goal in mind. Also, I didn't say I didn't expect a title in the next two years, I said that I don't believe just getting CP3 gets you there. I think if the team could pull off another impact player they could have a legit shot. So no, my expectations are not unrealistic. It's the opposite. Again, what other realistic shot does this team have that is viable to them to make a run?

2) SHORT TERM. Don't be obtuse. Yes, he will be happy for 2 seasons he got there. If you think that will appease him long term (see previous comment) as stated you are crazy. Short of deep runs and getting other players here he will be gone at the end of his contract or demand a trade. You want to bet? This dude is crazy competitive.

3) I didn't bring up the bubble you did (8-0 while Oubre was out) or maybe I misunderstood you. Sounds like we agree.

4) My God. Where did I say he was simply a bad contract? Where? I said he is a huge amount of money to chew up cap space unless you intend on making a run of it for two years.

5) Kelly Oubre? ********. You were not watching the televised games then and what commentators were saying. They repeatedly said he brought an energy and enthusiasm to the team. HOWEVER, go back and read what I said. Not one player can change a culture all by himself. Never claimed that. You love to put words in people's mouths.

6) I never accused you of anything. For f.....sake Chap.

You are so wrong on virtually all of this. You literally called him a bad contract.

You have this thing where you think that eating up cap space should ONLY be done in service for winning a title and that's it. I just don't get your disconnect on this whole situation. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Mainstreet]

The best way to understand the NBA is the players are like a fraternity.

Hopefully the Suns just joined the right fraternity.

 

[Covert Rain]

You are so wrong on virtually all of this. You literally called him a bad contract.

You have this thing where you think that eating up cap space should ONLY be done in service for winning a title and that's it. I just don't get your disconnect on this whole situation. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

You don't know what you are talking about. Where? You putting words in my mouth doesn't help your case. Oh and yes, eating up all your cap space is incredibly stupid unless you think you are putting together a team that can compete for it all. If that wasn't the case all NBA teams would be maxing their cap space with mediocre players because there isn't enough stars to go around.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

You don't know what you are talking about. Where? You putting words in my mouth doesn't help your case. Oh and yes, eating up all your cap space is incredibly stupid unless you think you are putting together a team that can compete for it all. If that wasn't the case all NBA teams would be maxing their cap space with mediocre players because there isn't enough stars to go around.

Yes the ultimate goal in sports is to win titles, but the cold hard truth is that only one team wins and 29 lose every year. Teams routinely use up most if not all of their space to simply put a competitive product on the floor and most of the time the team they built is not all that likely to win a title.

That being said the first step to ever having a chance at winning a title is getting into the playoffs. I don't know about you, but I don't think there is a team in the west that would want to have to face Paul, Booker and Ayton in the early rounds of the playoffs because that has the potential to be truly dangerous.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't know about you, but I don't think there is a team in the west that would want to have to face Paul, Booker and Ayton in the early rounds of the playoffs because that has the potential to be truly dangerous.

I agree. Not a fun prospect.