Grizzlies @ Suns Wednesday game thread 12-11-19

[Cheesebeef]

It would be an absolute disaster if all the #6 pick in the 2019 draft yielded was someone whose production ends up being comparable to Warren or Markeiff.

you JUST referred to Warren as a guy who's playing at an ALL-STAR level. That production is an absolute disaster?

Good lord man.

 

[1Sun]

you JUST referred to Warren as a guy who's playing at an ALL-STAR level. That production is an absolute disaster?

Good lord man.

I meant his Suns career. You know that.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

That's a good way to look at it but at the same time I think you're forgetting Warren and Markieff. Of course neither of them played at Booker's level either but their draft positioning was about the same as Cam and they produced similarly. Just comparing the 3 of them, Cam is outplaying them so far. I think we'll all be pretty happy if he ends up having a career that's better than them also.

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Here's the link to the BBRef page comparing them if people want to compare more than their basic stats and look at advanced stats or something.

And Ayton of course.

 

[Hoop Head]

And Ayton of course.

I deliberately left Ayton out of that but should have mentioned why I did. It was primarily because he was taken #1 overall and also because he's a Center. Markieff was a PF and Warren a SF with Cam sort of in between them in terms of his position. He's not really a SF or PF right now, he's a forward that can shoot.

Whether Ayton should have been the #1 pick or not, there's no denying that he was clearly 1 of the top 2 or 3 players in consideration to be the #1 pick and as such it doesn't help anyone to compare what he's done to a late lottery pick.

 

[Chaplin]

you JUST referred to Warren as a guy who's playing at an ALL-STAR level. That production is an absolute disaster?

Good lord man.

He's also talking about a player that only has 22 games under his belt for his career. The guy talks out of both sides of his mouth.

 

[Phrazbit]

I meant his Suns career. You know that.

He's playing the same level of basketball in Indiana that he did in Phoenix... in fact, he has been LESS efficient so far than he was the last few years.

18 ppg, 58 ts%, 4 boards, 1.5 assists in Phoenix = Absolute disaster.

18 ppg, 58 ts%, 3 boards, 1 assist... outside of Phoenix = All-Star!



Your troll is showing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I meant his Suns career. You know that.

he's literally playing the EXACT SAME WAY in Indy this year as he did his last couple years with the Suns.

Here are his numbers his last couple seasons with the Suns and this year in Indy:

18 ppg, 58 ts%, 4 boards, 1.5 assists in Phoenix

18 ppg, 58 ts%, 3 boards, 1 assist... outside of Phoenix

You're completely talking out of both sides of your mouth.

 

[Superbone]

The Suns are tied 51-51 at the half.

It's in the bag.

I was really disappointed in the team last night. You play with fire, sometimes you get burned.

 

[Superbone]

I was so confused at first with all these posts about Clarke. The only downside of blocking people I guess. Haha.

I had no idea that we have so many masochists on the Suns forum.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I had no idea that we have so many masochists on the Suns forum.

Really? Diehard Suns fans and it surprises you that we're masochistic?

 

[Superbone]

Really? Diehard Suns fans and it surprises you that we're masochistic?

You've got a point there.

 

[1Sun]

he's literally playing the EXACT SAME WAY in Indy this year as he did his last couple years with the Suns.

Here are his numbers his last couple seasons with the Suns and this year in Indy:

18 ppg, 58 ts%, 4 boards, 1.5 assists in Phoenix

18 ppg, 58 ts%, 3 boards, 1 assist... outside of Phoenix

You're completely talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Let me make it clear for you then:

If all we get out of the #6 pick in the 2019 draft has a 5 year career for the Suns as a one-dimensional scorer who puts forth inconsistent production and then gets traded for nothing with the Suns having to attach an asset just to get rid of his contract, then it would be a disaster.

 

[AzStevenCal]

.

Let me make it clear for you then:

If all we get out of the #6 pick in the 2019 draft has a 5 year career for the Suns as a one-dimensional scorer who puts forth inconsistent production and then gets traded for nothing with the Suns having to attach an asset just to get rid of his contract, then it would be a disaster.

I don't see why it would go that way but assuming it's a throwaway asset I'd say that falls in the disappointment group rather than the "disaster" category.

 

[cwamjn]

Let me make it clear for you then:

If all we get out of the #6 pick in the 2019 draft has a 5 year career for the Suns as a one-dimensional scorer who puts forth inconsistent production and then gets traded for nothing with the Suns having to attach an asset just to get rid of his contract, then it would be a disaster.

Are you getting upset now, about things that might happen 5 years from now?

 

[Phrazbit]

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I don't see why it would go that way but assuming it's a throwaway asset I'd say that falls in the disappointment group rather than the "disaster" category.

It is because you don't speak Doublespeak.

 

[Phrazbit]

Are you getting upset now, about things that might happen 5 years from now?

It is never too soon to jump to conclusions.

 

[Western Font]

One of the problems is that he's closing games presently. Has he earned that!? Saric has been pretty inconsistent I'll admit. What about Bridges, he's their best outside defender. Kaminski was the only one shooting HOT yesterday.

Clarke has his place on Memphis.

I don't know if he's earned a closing role, nor do I think many players on the roster have. And I like Bridges; may just be disappointed that he hasn't made as big a leap in year two as I'd hoped. That may still come (and hopefully it does for Cam, too).

That's a good way to look at it but at the same time I think you're forgetting Warren and Markieff. Of course neither of them played at Booker's level either but their draft positioning was about the same as Cam and they produced similarly. Just comparing the 3 of them, Cam is outplaying them so far. I think we'll all be pretty happy if he ends up having a career that's better than them also.

You must be registered for see images attach

Here's the link to the BBRef page comparing them if people want to compare more than their basic stats and look at advanced stats or something.

Warren and Markieff were definitely two I thought were close when scanning the draft history. Maybe "absolutely outplayed" was too strong wording. More like I absolutely think he has outplayed most rookies. Cam also benefits from exceeding expectations.

And Ayton of course.

Totally--I should have noted Ayton. I could make the statement about him that he's outplayed every rookie since Amare. Man I can't wait until he's back.

 

[1Sun]

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I don't see why it would go that way but assuming it's a throwaway asset I'd say that falls in the disappointment group rather than the "disaster" category.

Not with the #6 pick coming off the worst season since the expansion year and needing a solid starter, if not a star, with that pick.

 

[1Sun]

Are you getting upset now, about things that might happen 5 years from now?

I'm not the one who brought up the Markeiff and Warren comparisons. My point was that we needed a franchise building block with that pick, not another Warren or Markeiff.

 

[Hoop Head]

Warren and Markieff were definitely two I thought were close when scanning the draft history. Maybe "absolutely outplayed" was too strong wording. More like I absolutely think he has outplayed most rookies. Cam also benefits from exceeding expectations.

I was pleasantly surprised that Cam is outplaying them, based on the stats. I think if he can end up being as impactful as either of them before they became problems then I'm happy with the pick.

Beyond just how he plays though I think a lot of people forget or ignore that there weren't a lot of great options at #6 for the Suns. I can't stress that for the Suns part enough. I liked Coby White the most but he's been what I figured he would be, a combo guard that is a good ball handler. He's shot quite poorly in Chicago, worse than I anticipated, and the Suns did not need to add another bad shooter. I know Rubio's shooting sucks also but he's doing things for the Suns that White can't, not now or possibly ever. There are few players with Rubio's court vision in the league and there was no one at #6 that could do what Rubio has for the Suns. Drafting White would have kept the Suns from drafting a PG this next year and possibly interfered with signing a veteran free agent so I'm fine with not going that route.

There also wasn't a great PF prospect either. Some people have been down on Saric and while he's been a little streakier than I hoped, he's been ok and probably has performed better than a rookie would had they drafted a PF at #6. Then they don't have a shooter like Cam coming in off the bench either. Saric had one of his best games as a Sun against the Wolves but almost no one mentioned his contributions, he had 20 & 9 on 7-11 shooting and just before that game he had 13, 12, and 5 against Houston. He's been improving himself as the year has gone on, which is part of why I don't think he should be sat to start Baynes with Ayton. He's averaging 11 and 7 right now and I expect his shooting percentage to climb up when Ayton returns also. He shot 39% from 3 in that full year he played with Embiid, I hope he can get close to that with Ayton as a Sun and if he does, while continuing to grab 6 or 7 boards, then I'm more than fine with his production. Not everyone can or will be a star.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Not with the #6 pick coming off the worst season since the expansion year and needing a solid starter, if not a star, with that pick.

What??? If that's how you look at it then shouldn't you be blaming that "disaster" on the fact we actually slid to the 6th pick? How is that on James Jones? That's just an incredible reach, your arguments are getting weaker.

 

[1Sun]

What??? If that's how you look at it then shouldn't you be blaming that "disaster" on the fact we actually slid to the 6th pick? How is that on James Jones? That's just an incredible reach, your arguments are getting weaker.

There were still solid starters available. Jones traded down for garbage and then reached for a player who we hope can develop into a role player and whose ceiling is now being described even on this board as Markeiff and Warren.

 

[JerkFace]

There were still solid starters available. Jones traded down for garbage and then reached for a player who we hope can develop into a role player and whose ceiling is now being described even on this board as Markeiff and Warren.

Who? I was a fan of White but I don’t see him as a fit on this team. Same with Culver. Who is this “franchise building block” that was available at #6?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

There were still solid starters available. Jones traded down for garbage and then reached for a player who we hope can develop into a role player and whose ceiling is now being described even on this board as Markeiff and Warren.

He's already a solid role player. What we are hoping for now is for him to develop into an elite role player and believe it or not those guys are very important to have. They don't command star money, but they have a big impact on winning games.

 

[WildBB]

I'm not the one who brought up the Markeiff and Warren comparisons. My point was that we needed a franchise building block with that pick, not another Warren or Markeiff.

It wasn't exactly a franchise building draft, early and often. Who did you want at 6?